Re Tightening Lug Nuts ???

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by jenandjon

Am I the only one who carries a torque wrench?

No, you're not the only one. I carry a torque wrench in my class C for tightening the lug nuts if I needed to install the spare.

The scary thing is that a lot of motorhomes don't even have a spare or even a place to put one. I wouldn't travel without a spare tire/wheel.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

YUP, click style torque wrenches need to be reset to zero before storage. Otherwise the spring in the wrench stretches making the wrench inaccurate.

With my torque wrench I just hold down the off button.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by jenandjon

Am I the only one who carries a torque wrench?

No. I have my battery powered impact wrench with torque sticks and my torque wrench...I have the torque sticks just in case I don't have the wrench.

[hthavana]

I carry one, and as part of my pre-trip checklist, check tire pressure and torque lug nuts. In the short time I've been a junior member of this forum, a mild obsession, my own included, of all things pertaining to safe operation and travel with any rig is the norm....exceeded only by the 'need' to modify, to which I can't keep up.

[jenandjon]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

No, you're not the only one. I carry a torque wrench in my class C for tightening the lug nuts if I needed to install the spare.

The scary thing is that a lot of motorhomes don't even have a spare or even a place to put one. I wouldn't travel without a spare tire/wheel.

I thought of this when I went HDT I dont have a place for a spare. I came to this conclusion. If I have a flat or blow out on my steer axle I can always take one from the rear and put it in the front. That will get me to the next town. I have a big enough jack and I bought a torque amplifier to get the lug nuts off. I'm no where near maxed out on the drive axle.
I suppose you could do that on a motorhome but there's a lot of weight on that axle. That would be sketchy but if your a 100 miles from nowhere and no cell service what else can you do?

[Vince and Charlette]

How often do you check the torque on your automobile? Most never do. Why is that?

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by Vince and Charlette

How often do you check the torque on your automobile? Most never do. Why is that?

The short answer is a lot of people probably don’t even check their automobile tire pressures, and definitely not their wheel nut torque, perhaps out of laziness or ignorance.

Seriously though, with the aluminum rims on my van, car, and truck, I read that I was to recheck lug nut torque after 50-100 miles of wheel installation. I do that. However, since this was brought up, I need to investigate whether that recommendation was in the owners manual or from some other source.

On the other hand, on a truck or motorhome with dual rear wheels, the lug nuts are not the cone type found on automobiles. They are a nut with a large integral rotating flat washer. I think that lug nut style is the reason for recommending a torque recheck on motorhomes and dually trucks.

Edit to add:
The quote below is taken from the 2019 Ford E-450 owners manual, and supports my comments above regarding wheel lug nut torque rechecking and the differences with dual rear wheel trucks.

“On vehicles equipped with single rear wheels, retighten the lug nuts to the specified torque at 100 miles (160 kilometers) after any wheel disturbance (such as tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel removal). On vehicles equipped with dual rear wheels, retighten the wheel lug nuts to the specified torque at 100 miles (160 kilometers), and again at 500 miles (800 kilometers) of new vehicle operation and after any wheel disturbance (such as tire rotation, changing a flat tire, wheel removal).”

[NMWildcat]

I don't trust anyone's work. Not even myself. After the tires have been off for any reason, I will check the torque after a few miles at a convenient spot. After that, not until the tires come off again. As far as taking them loose before re-torquing, yeah, NO!

[frank4711]

I have found loose lugs on a new camper but after I have torqued to spec when I go back and check they are never loose?? just say in

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

I don't trust anyone's work. Not even myself. After the tires have been off for any reason, I will check the torque after a few miles at a convenient spot. After that, not until the tires come off again. As far as taking them loose before re-torquing, yeah, NO!

If you were the last person to torque them then agreed, no reason. If you had it done at a tire shop then It would be a great idea. Don't believe me? Next time you are around a tire shop look over the tech's shoulder while he's torquing lug nuts and see how many of the lug nuts actually turn before the torque wrench goes "click". If it didn't move it was already over-torqued unless by accident he stopped with the impact wrench right on the proper torque.

Want to find out how much over-torque? Just reverse the ratchet on the torque wrench and see how much torque it takes to remove the lug nut. You might be shocked.

[NMWildcat]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

If you were the last person to torque them then agreed, no reason. If you had it done at a tire shop then It would be a great idea. Don't believe me? Next time you are around a tire shop look over the tech's shoulder while he's torquing lug nuts and see how many of the lug nuts actually turn before the torque wrench goes "click". If it didn't move it was already over-torqued unless by accident he stopped with the impact wrench right on the proper torque.

Want to find out how much over-torque? Just reverse the ratchet on the torque wrench and see how much torque it takes to remove the lug nut. You might be shocked.

You could be correct. Honestly, I don't care enough to loosen them to check. The only folks to take my tires off are myself, my nephew, or the local tire shop I've been going to for decades. Now if jiffy lube did it, I might be more inclined. Maybe

[BehindBars]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Want to find out how much over-torque? Just reverse the ratchet on the torque wrench and see how much torque it takes to remove the lug nut. You might be shocked.

Here is my understanding (which can, of course, be wrong). The amount of torque it takes to break loose a tightened static nut or bolt is not a direct indication of the torque that was used to set it. When tightening the nut, the torque specs make assumptions about the condition of the threads (dry) and takes into account that there is dynamic friction involved during tightening. Upon loosening, you must first overcome the static friction on the threads, which is higher than dynamic friction. So, it takes more torque to loosen a fastener than to properly tighten it. You can’t measure the torque required to loosen the nut and say that was the torque that had been used to tighten it.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by BehindBars

Here is my understanding (which can, of course, be wrong). The amount of torque it takes to break loose a tightened static nut or bolt is not a direct indication of the torque that was used to set it. When tightening the nut, the torque specs make assumptions about the condition of the threads (dry) and takes into account that there is dynamic friction involved during tightening. Upon loosening, you must first overcome the static friction on the threads, which is higher than dynamic friction. So, it takes more torque to loosen a fastener than to properly tighten it. You can’t measure the torque required to loosen the nut and say that was the torque that had been used to tighten it.

You are correct if you are using normal scientific guidelines. However-----

If a torque of 100 ft lbs is specified and it takes 120-150 ft lbs to remove it you are well over the variation you suggest and this is the most common problem in the automotive world.

FWIW, merely loosening with a torque wrench and comparing with tightening torque has for years been a standard test for impact wrenches and non-critical torque wrenches. In the real world, the values don't vary by much.

[TandSH]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

YUP, click style torque wrenches need to be reset to zero before storage. Otherwise the spring in the wrench stretches making the wrench inaccurate.

That type of torque wrench should NOT be left set to a moderate to high setting NOR be reset to zero. Either can (most likely will) result in the calibration becoming inaccurate.


For storage reset the wrench adjustment to approximately 10 to 15 percent of the rating of the wrench. So for a wrench rated up to 150 lb-ft, set it to about 15 to 20 lb-ft and be sure to keep it clean, out of the weather and don't drop it.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by TandSH

That type of torque wrench should NOT be left set to a moderate to high setting NOR be reset to zero. Either can (most likely will) result in the calibration becoming inaccurate.


For storage reset the wrench adjustment to approximately 10 to 15 percent of the rating of the wrench. So for a wrench rated up to 150 lb-ft, set it to about 15 to 20 lb-ft and be sure to keep it clean, out of the weather and don't drop it.

Somewhat true for the spring type "click" torque wrenches but totally unnecessary for the "split beam" type torque wrench that uses no springs whatever. Torque value is set by a knob on the side that has no tension on it at all. Wrench clicks when internal beam is deflected the proper amount.

Not a popular wrench for many tire shops as they sold for around $250 from Snap On when Snap On had an exclusive deal with the manufacturer. When the "exclusive" expired I bought pallet loads for our stores for less than $100 each. Then Snap On bought the company

[TandSH]

Originally Posted by parise

Interesting points. I do have to wonder about the 'recommendation'. I have never had my lugs retorqued. On any vehicle. Maybe I have just been lucky these past 50 years of driving. My hat is off to anyone doing it though - where do you find the time? Even in retirement I am too busy with other maintenance and RVing!

One should consider re-torquing lug nuts as a "STRONG recommendation". In any event make the time for safety's sake. Two extreme examples from my recent past...


I live in Georgia and was in Kalif. a couple of years ago. My F-250 came due routing service which includes tire (wheel) rotation and I had that done at a Ford dealer nearby. Several days later on the second day's journey home, and pulling our 5th wheel I was having increasing difficulty maintaining my lane on the highway. We stopped in a rest area and inspected the truck and trailer to find ALL 4 wheels had not been properly torqued and were visibly loose! The left rear wheel even had the hub cover and one lug nut missing! I re-torqued all wheels which cured the handling issues, then stopped after another 50 or so miles to re-torque again. I notified the dealer who replaced the lost items and thanked me, promising to have a training session with his service crew.


The second instance was following a tire replacement on another travel trailer at a reliable local tire dealer I use. One of the "bargain" tires that was mounted didn't even make it to my driveway before it's entire tread separated. I was going to replace it with the spare and return to the dealer but could not loosen any of the lug nuts with any equipment I own (no impact driver). I had the dealer send a road service company to assist but even they could not break them free. The dealer had to send a "mechanic" with a 'large' impact driver per my strong recommendation who barely succeeded in removing the wheel. I would have been in a pickle if I had a flat on some lonesome highway.


Takes about 10 minutes to check torque on all 4 of the 8 lug wheels on our 5er. Remember the parody of the Kenny Rogers song "You Picked a Fine Time to Leave Me Loose Wheel..."

[jd4010]

I carry a torque wrench along with a whole ensemble of other tools. I've found myself replacing injectors at Fort Wilderness Campground so I carry about all the tools necessary for most repairs to the TV or camper.

As for tires, we haul with a generator in the truck bed and I have an electric impact wrench so being able to change a tire is fairly fast. Prior to my G614 tires I was popping china bombs (TowMax crap) left and right so changing them FAST alongside a highway with trucks barreling at 70+ MPH was necessary. Good Sam takes wayyyyyyy to long to respond for anything really so I needed a means to do so myself quickly.

All good investments! And like a boy scout, I'm prepared.

[gordonsick]

The OP in this thread has a 40 foot diesel pusher. Assuming it’s a Freightliner or something similar, the wheel nuts need 450 to 500 ft lbs of torque. That’s well beyond the range of torque discussed by subsequent posters.
I use a 4x torque multiplier and a torque gauge for which I checked the calibration. My discussion is at https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...els-97896.html.

BTW, I did have front tires installed and checked the torque before I left the tire dealer’s lot. I thought I’d get some confirmation about my torque readings. Instead, I found that their torque varied wildly over the 20 nuts that I checked. For me, that was a good lesson in retorquing myself.

Gordon

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by TandSH

That type of torque wrench should NOT be left set to a moderate to high setting NOR be reset to zero. Either can (most likely will) result in the calibration becoming inaccurate.


For storage reset the wrench adjustment to approximately 10 to 15 percent of the rating of the wrench. So for a wrench rated up to 150 lb-ft, set it to about 15 to 20 lb-ft and be sure to keep it clean, out of the weather and don't drop it.

My Craftsman click style torque wrench instructions say to take it down to "less than 25%." So zero is still acceptable.

[jeffnick]

I re-torque my trailer wheels after any wheel is removed for any reason. I re-torque them at 50 miles. Then again at 100. If any of them move I do it again at another 100. And again if any of them move. It's not so much that your torque is exact, just that it's consistent.



Trailer wheels and hubs are not made to the same specs as people vehicles.