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Old 12-22-2015, 03:25 PM   #201
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Useless story because I don't have all/any info. Years ago.. I was calling on a service station where a customer was...the customer had a large van 3/4 or 1 ton I assume. He had split several steel wheels on a long trip...grossly overloaded and he new it of course.


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Old 12-22-2015, 05:44 PM   #202
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I’m going to present this from what I consider a typical manufacturer does when building a model trailer to a specific marketing tool. In this case the market target is for one half ton trucks.

The plans are drawn-up for 17 travel trailers and 6 fifth wheel trailers with the same brand name, all targeted for the Ĺ ton truck. The travel trailers start with a GVWR of 6400# and work their way up to 9000#. Every one of them are fitted with ST225/75R15D tires. The fifth wheels start with a GVWR of 9662# and work up to 10370# all with ST225/75R15D tires.

That production line can order all wheel/tire assemblies the same size for every unit. Setting GVWR, GAWR and selecting appropriate tire and rim sizes with recommended inflation pressures suitable for each fitment is part of vehicle certification. The minimum values and measurements are a product of NHTSA standards and regulations.

Consumers unhappy with minimum product values and specifications often point their finger in the wrong direction. When the value and measurements of things certified to be appropriate produce unacceptable results the standards which produced the results must first be scrutinized.
Sorry Air, I don't understand your point. The regulations establish minimum performance requirements and does not specify the type or size of tire to be used.

In reality RV company don't do much "manufacturing" as IMO it looks more like just assembling some parts they buy off the shelf.

Lets look at real vehicle manufacturing. A car manufacturer has similar regulations that they must follow ie GVWR & GAWR and tire selection. The difference is that Ford or Chevy or Kia don't specify a single tire for 17 different vehicles or even 4 different vehicles even if it might be possible to
comply with the regulations. These manufacturers select and specify specific model tires with unique characteristics and do not buy based on getting the lowest cost round and black thing that will meet the bare minimum requirements. Real vehicle manufacturers do evaluations and testing of their products. They even consider such things as serviceability unlike RV companies such as FR. They do not install for example water pumps in any random location such that the pump must be relocated by the owner, at the owner's expense if the owner wants to be able to properly winterize the water system.

With your example of 17 different vehicles, I cannot possibly see how one tire can provide reasonable and consistent margin of safety for load capacity for all vehicles.

Have to wonder why the Air Force, Navy etc can't all use just one model fighter jet or a single model transport. Bet that might save tax payer many hundreds millions and make life in service bay easier.

If in fact FR is using identical tires on the variety of RVs you identify, I would consider that proof that there is no real design engineering taking place just low cost part selecting by purchasing dept.

I am also surprised to learn that 1/2 tom P/Us are rated to tow 10,370 TT with 2,074 load in the truck bed.
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Old 12-22-2015, 11:14 PM   #203
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Sorry Air, I don't understand your point. The regulations establish minimum performance requirements and does not specify the type or size of tire to be used.

The certification label does.

In reality RV company don't do much "manufacturing" as IMO it looks more like just assembling some parts they buy off the shelf.

I didn't use that word, you did.

Lets look at real vehicle manufacturing. A car manufacturer has similar regulations that they must follow ie GVWR & GAWR and tire selection. The difference is that Ford or Chevy or Kia don't specify a single tire for 17 different vehicles or even 4 different vehicles even if it might be possible to comply with the regulations. These manufacturers select and specify specific model tires with unique characteristics and do not buy based on getting the lowest cost round and black thing that will meet the bare minimum requirements. Real vehicle manufacturers do evaluations and testing of their products. They even consider such things as serviceability unlike RV companies such as FR. They do not install for example water pumps in any random location such that the pump must be relocated by the owner, at the owner's expense if the owner wants to be able to properly winterize the water system.

I said all of that in an earlier post.

With your example of 17 different vehicles, I cannot possibly see how one tire can provide reasonable and consistent margin of safety for load capacity for all vehicles.

Because they still meet the minimum standards.

Have to wonder why the Air Force, Navy etc can't all use just one model fighter jet or a single model transport. Bet that might save tax payer many hundreds millions and make life in service bay easier.

If in fact FR is using identical tires on the variety of RVs you identify, I would consider that proof that there is no real design engineering taking place just low cost part selecting by purchasing dept.

I did not use that word.

I am also surprised to learn that 1/2 ton P/Us are rated to tow 10,370 TT with 2,074 load in the truck bed.

They marketed the trailers in that direction. It's up to each truck to qualify.
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Old 12-26-2015, 06:24 AM   #204
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...Have to wonder why the Air Force, Navy etc can't all use just one model fighter jet or a single model transport. Bet that might save tax payer many hundreds millions...
Ever hear of the Lockheed Martin F 35 introduced and sold to all branches of the military several years ago??????
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Old 12-26-2015, 08:44 AM   #205
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Slight clarification on the ST - LT tire change topic.
As a tire engineer, I see no reason for an owner to not be allowed to change type tire i.e. P to ST or LT or change ST to LT as long as the new tire at its inflation has equal or greater load capacity to the OE tire at its inflation and the max inflation capability as identified by the wheel manufacturer is not exceeded.
Just askin' so why won't tire dealer's install LTs on trailers. They will not in this area anyway.
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Old 12-26-2015, 10:13 AM   #206
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Ever hear of the Lockheed Martin F 35 introduced and sold to all branches of the military several years ago??????

All of us Airdales know about this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockhe...5_Lightning_II
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Old 12-26-2015, 11:14 AM   #207
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Just askin' so why won't tire dealer's install LTs on trailers. They will not in this area anyway.
Please don’t take this as a harsh answer. It’s just based on facts that people don’t like to accept.

For a long time know I’ve been doing the safety side of tires. I’ve been branded all kinds of bad and have even been banned from tire threads - sometimes - because of my harsh postings.

Tire dealers cannot over ride, trump, or any other way, do less than the vehicle manufacturer. Because? The vehicle manufacturer, in the eyes of the governing body (DOT) has sole authority for Original Equipment tire and rim fitments. They are required to put their (MINIMUM) selections along with recommended tire inflation pressures for them on the federal certification label and display it on your trailer.

Tire industry standards (aftermarket) consist of a set of standards from tire manufacturers, the Tire & Rim Association (TRA) and Rubber Manufacturers Association) RMA. They are very consistent and found in any tire manufacturer’s Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) manuals and PDF files found on the internet.

For a tire dealer or any other tire shop to change your trailer tires from one design to another is considered a misapplication. In fact, any change not recommended by your trailer manufacturer in the Owner’s Manual for your particular trailer is a misapplication. RV trailer tires do not have the same industry standards as the automotive industry with their pre-selected replacement lists and approved “plus sizing” procedures.

Why a trailer manufacturer selects and installs the tires on your trailer is immaterial. It was their decision to make within the guidelines provided by the governing body (DOT). None of the designs such as Passenger (P), Light Truck (LT), Special Trailer (ST), Hybrid - ties with a LT prefix marked “for trailer service only” or any of the wide range of medium to heavy duty truck/trailer tires are exempt. But, no matter what their design they are all installed in accordance with FMVSS guidelines. Not to be confused with guidelines for the trucking industry.

The bottom line. Once your drive off with your new or used trailer, it’s yours to do with as you see fit. I encourage you to be safe with everything including your tire selections. Below is a version of minimum industry standards. It’s from Michelin - hard to find them admitting they don’t control everything.

(Click on the tab "changing sizes or specs").


http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/help/how-to-choose-tires.html#tab-4
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Old 12-26-2015, 04:51 PM   #208
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I understand exactly what you are saying but people act like you are crazy when they say use LT tires on the camper when their tire shop says ok....... but the tire shops you deal with say no can't / won't do it............

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Old 12-26-2015, 05:11 PM   #209
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I understand exactly what you are saying but people act like you are crazy when they say use LT tires on the camper when their tire shop says ok....... but the tire shops you deal with say no can't / won't do it............

Time to find a different tire shop then, or take loose wheels in and have them put whatever tire you want on it. If they ask what its for just tell them "its going on whatever i decide to throw it on".

I hate how some places will only throw tires on the rear of a vehicle if you buy a pair (discount tire). But if you take in loose wheels they have no liability on the tire placement.
I have 8 spare 8 lug wheels currently down in my shed. Some have lt and some have st tires. Some are load range E and some G. Ill throw one of my truck spares on a trailer in a pinch if i need to. (Or vise versa if an absolute must to get down the road) Heck i currently have a set of 4 gm aluminum wheels on my tripple axle goose neck with truck lt tires on them. I sold the truck so im using the tires and wheels since they have about 1500 miles on them.

Id never take the advice of an $8 an hour tire jockey as an absolute, they likely have no idea why they can or cant do something. And they are trying to follow the letter of the rule or law instead of looking at the intent.
We are all trying to be safe and have fun. If you are doing your due diligence and have a tire selected that meets the appropriate load ratings for your trailer there should never be an issue and most likely less issue with an lt over the st bombs we are all familiar with!
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Old 12-27-2015, 08:51 AM   #210
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All of the name tire stores here will not put LT tires on trailers and I usually deal with David he owns three tire stores and is an independent and beats everyone's prices usually by over $100 a set. Yes they ask when you bring in a rim and I can't lie to them as they do ask esp when the have STs on them to begin with.

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Old 12-27-2015, 11:13 AM   #211
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All of the name tire stores here will not put LT tires on trailers and I usually deal with David he owns three tire stores and is an independent and beats everyone's prices usually by over $100 a set. Yes they ask when you bring in a rim and I can't lie to them as they do ask esp when the have STs on them to begin with.

That sux.
But if theres a will, there's a way! And i have a strong will!!!

If your happy with your tire performance than thats all that matters, cause I'm not pulling your traillers around, you are !!
Good luck!
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Old 12-27-2015, 03:57 PM   #212
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That sux.
But if theres a will, there's a way! And i have a strong will!!!

If your happy with your tire performance than thats all that matters, cause I'm not pulling your traillers around, you are !!
Good luck!

Never had any issues with ST tires in all reality. Never a flat never a blow out but In my line of work I can not risk my career on a lie...... so if my dealer & I have been buying tires from him for 20 plus years and as many as 20-24s tire in a year If he says he won't put LT tires on a trailer then well that will work......... I drag 5 trailers all over the place on the east coast ........

My question that no one can seem to answer is how long have ST tires been out there my first two campers both 24' duel axle came with P rated tires from the factory......

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Old 12-27-2015, 04:39 PM   #213
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You are mighty lucky!

Couldn't tell you on the st's. We use to get bias plys on trailers like a 16-7.5 or something like that but i haven't bought any like that in about 10 years.
I have blown out, thrown tread, had flats, tread separation, side wall bubbles, broke valve stems, etc. dozens if not hundreds of times. But nothing more than flats on vehicle tires.
I'm tire poor right now with only 20 trailer tires on the ground and 11 spares for them. And 20 vehicle tires on the ground and their spares. I really dont worry about blowouts on most of my trailers because they either have a deck over them or good fenders to protect the boat or other stuff im hauling so i dont mind throwing st "china bombs" on them. (It does suck changing a tire on the side of the interstate with a trailer waying 20k or so and cars zipping by at 70-80 mph).
Now my camper....that thing will get destroyed with a blowout. So if i hit the road with it its getting Lt's or the goodyear g614.

But thats me. And i only like having tires 2.5 years or less from dot date on trailers and 3.5 years from dot date on vehicles. And if i order a tire and it comes in over 6 months old by the dot date.....im sending it back.
But here in Oklahoma we have -0į temps up to 100į+ and we have alot of rual gravel roads, both of which are hard on tires.
I wish i had your luck with tires!
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Old 12-27-2015, 04:49 PM   #214
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Just askin' so why won't tire dealer's install LTs on trailers. They will not in this area anyway.
Oaklevel, I have stated this before tire dealers in my area Virginia will not install anything but ST on a trailer. Also when I was forced to buy new tires in Lumberton NC. from a blow out Black tires the biggest in NC point blank said they would not install anything but ST on my trailer. They are one of the largest GY dealers in NC....
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:12 AM   #215
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Oaklevel, I have stated this before tire dealers in my area Virginia will not install anything but ST on a trailer. Also when I was forced to buy new tires in Lumberton NC. from a blow out Black tires the biggest in NC point blank said they would not install anything but ST on my trailer. They are one of the largest GY dealers in NC....
They won't put anything but STs on trailers over here in Bassett either. Cunningham tire which has 3 stores & the best prices is who I deal the most with. No big chains in this area any more... Just mainly independents.......... and many of them are gone too...........
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Old 12-28-2015, 06:23 AM   #216
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You are mighty lucky!

Couldn't tell you on the st's. We use to get bias plys on trailers like a 16-7.5 or something like that but i haven't bought any like that in about 10 years.
I have blown out, thrown tread, had flats, tread separation, side wall bubbles, broke valve stems, etc. dozens if not hundreds of times. But nothing more than flats on vehicle tires.
I'm tire poor right now with only 20 trailer tires on the ground and 11 spares for them. And 20 vehicle tires on the ground and their spares. I really dont worry about blowouts on most of my trailers because they either have a deck over them or good fenders to protect the boat or other stuff im hauling so i dont mind throwing st "china bombs" on them. (It does suck changing a tire on the side of the interstate with a trailer waying 20k or so and cars zipping by at 70-80 mph).
Now my camper....that thing will get destroyed with a blowout. So if i hit the road with it its getting Lt's or the goodyear g614.

But thats me. And i only like having tires 2.5 years or less from dot date on trailers and 3.5 years from dot date on vehicles. And if i order a tire and it comes in over 6 months old by the dot date.....im sending it back.
But here in Oklahoma we have -0į temps up to 100į+ and we have alot of rual gravel roads, both of which are hard on tires.
I wish i had your luck with tires!
I know what you mean but I have been fortunate but don't pull the trailers daily or sometimes even weekly. Counting the camper I have 16 trailer tires on the ground and down to 26 vehicle tires on the ground. (12 are on antique vehicles). Too many for not making any money with them

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Old 12-28-2015, 04:25 PM   #217
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Oaklevel, I have stated this before tire dealers in my area Virginia will not install anything but ST on a trailer. Also when I was forced to buy new tires in Lumberton NC. from a blow out Black tires the biggest in NC point blank said they would not install anything but ST on my trailer. They are one of the largest GY dealers in NC....

Let's see now, I have a Cedar Creek that came from the factory with LT tires on camper and Blacks will only put ST tires on my camper, then they are crazy. Anyway I live close to a Blacks tire store and my dealer beats there price. I have Goodyear G614 on my Creek and when they wear out a new set just like them will go back on camper. It's funny to me I was at Carolina RV today in Myrtle Beach today and I saw two Cedar Creek 36CKTS, a 15 and a 16 and the 15 had the LT G614 Goodyears and the 16 had the cheap Westlake tires on. I think for what one Goodyear would costs you could probably buy four West Lake tires. I talked to a man at Ocean Lakes campground that has a Cedar Creek 36CKTS and he told me on his first trip out west on camper three of the China tires blew out and he replaced all four with new Goodyears


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Old 12-28-2015, 04:39 PM   #218
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Let's see now, I have a Cedar Creek that came from the factory with LT tires on camper and Blacks will only put ST tires on my camper, then they are crazy. Anyway I live close to a Blacks tire store and my dealer beats there price. I have Goodyear G614 on my Creek and when they wear out a new set just like them will go back on camper. It's funny to me I was at Carolina RV today in Myrtle Beach today and I saw two Cedar Creek 36CKTS, a 15 and a 16 and the 15 had the LT G614 Goodyears and the 16 had the cheap Westlake tires on. I think for what one Goodyear would costs you could probably buy four West Lake tires. I talked to a man at Ocean Lakes campground that has a Cedar Creek 36CKTS and he told me on his first trip out west on camper three of the China tires blew out and he replaced all four with new Goodyears


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Never said that, my trailer came with ST, I have no idea if Blacks would refuse you being your trailer was certified with LT's. Mine was certified with ST's.The great Trail Express Brand...: I'm only talking about mine not anyone else's. Can't see why they wouldn't replace them with the same if yours came with LT's and it on your sticker.
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Old 12-29-2015, 09:28 AM   #219
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LT G614 Goodyears are interesting Goodyears web site says they are trailer tires to confuse the issue even more They are not LTs in the since that they are not designed as light truck tires and are ok by the manufacturer for trailer use.
see Goodyear RV Tires ‚€“ Tire Selector. The tire dealer should not have liability installing them when the came on the trailer and are designed by the manufacturer for trailer use. Unlike other LT tires....



As far as Westlakes they are not cheap china bombs I have had good service from two sets one that is currently on the trailer and one set that out lived a car.....
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Old 04-22-2016, 09:32 PM   #220
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I have to admit I did not read all the posts. Based on my observations in the field and from what many have said this what should be considered:

. RV manufactures in general mount the the least expensive lowest load range tire they can and still meet government standards.
. ST tires may or may not be better than LT given the same load range. BTW I have seen many Michelin and Goodyear LT on large fifth wheels.
. Some dealers will refuse to mount LT tires on a fifth wheel (or any trailer) but some will, obviously.

A previous trailer, used, had tires way beyond their life so I purchased ST one load range up. In less than a thousand miles two blew and shredded. I do not remember the brand but they were Chinese.

Not sure if I am making any sense but our new trailer has ST225/75R15/C and if I read them right the tire load is 2,000 meaning, what, four tires carry a 8,000 load. The GVWR on the rig is 9,100 so am I under rated to start?

Could be the tire is good for 2,125 perhaps . That is still only 8,500 and unless I am way off base I should be getting new tires a load range up.

Cheer, GT
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