RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-14-2013, 06:46 PM   #81
Junior Member
 
bayoubuggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 27
Wow, lots of great info. Just to get this straight, if the max tire pressure on the sidewall is 50psi should that be the pressure before loading the TT or after I load it up?
__________________

2014 PT Tracer 2950 BHS
2008 Chevy 1500 CC
bayoubuggie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #82
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoubuggie View Post
Wow, lots of great info. Just to get this straight, if the max tire pressure on the sidewall is 50psi should that be the pressure before loading the TT or after I load it up?
The Cold Inflation Pressure (sidewall 50 PSI) will NOT change loaded or unloaded. The only thing that changes between empty and loaded is the amount of tread in actual contact with the road. The pressure stays the same.

It is Pounds Per Square Inch. More load; more square inches; same PSI.

ALWAYS set pressure cold (before you drive the first mile) and best done first thing in the AM before the sun starts heating up the south facing tires.

For the purists; the North facing tires in the Southern Hemisphere.
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:23 PM   #83
Mod free 5er
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Concord, NC
Posts: 24,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
...For the purists; the North facing tires in the Southern Hemisphere.
For me it's the East facing tires before the sun gets high enough to shine over my truck and on the tires.
__________________
OldCoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 07:48 PM   #84
Commercial Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Akron, Ohio
Posts: 1,630
Quote:
Originally Posted by bayoubuggie View Post
Wow, lots of great info. Just to get this straight, if the max tire pressure on the sidewall is 50psi should that be the pressure before loading the TT or after I load it up?
The pressure on your ST or LT tires is the one associated with the max load

for example if your tire said "2000 lbs max load at 56 psi" then I am saying that to get the best durability you need to confirm two things.

1. The maximum load on the most heavy loaded tire MUST be below 2,000# and many strongly recommend below 1,700 and no more than 1800#

2. For TT with two or more axles you should set the cold inflation to 56 psi for the example tire or in your case 50 psi if that is the number molded on the sidewall, to have the lowest inter-ply shear. (This shear is the force at the belt edge trying to tear the belts and tread off the carcass whenever you turn any corner.


Now go read your tire and then get the actual tire loads when you have the trailer fully loaded (food, water, clothes etc)
This link shows how to calculate the individual tire loads. Don't be put off by it being "5th wheel. The math is the same.


You can PM me if you have questions
__________________
.Write a blog on RV tire application RV Tire Safety. 40 years experience as tire design engineer. Freelander 23QB on Chevy chassis is my RV. Giving seminars on RV Tire applications (not selling)@ FMCA Conventions. Next in Mar 2021 in Perry, GA
Tireman9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2013, 09:20 PM   #85
Junior Member
 
bayoubuggie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Lake Charles
Posts: 27
Thanks, got the info off of the tire sidewall (1760# @ 50 psi), now just need to load up and find some scales. I can already see my TT loaded up is pushing my tires limits.
__________________

2014 PT Tracer 2950 BHS
2008 Chevy 1500 CC
bayoubuggie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 06:25 PM   #86
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
Has anyone ever given thought that trailer tires are of less quality than passenger tires? That they may be made to DOT standards that are well below the DOT standards of passenger tires? Compare the weight of both.... the passenger tire weighs more... i.e. has stronger belts and sidewall components. If you are REALLY a non believer, cut sections (from bead to bead) with a metal band saw, buff the cut surfaces and compare the components in the tire. I have driven on trailer tires that were pathetic and changed to passenger. In every case, without fail, the passenger significantly out performed.
Mike Bullard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 06:40 PM   #87
Senior Member
 
Canonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Jordan, Utah
Posts: 349
I'd like to hear what Tireman 9 thinks about using passenger tires. My ST tires are wearing from both shoulders or from the outside in. The driver side rear is worse than the others. I have not rotated them yet but plan to when we store the TT this weekend. Pressure in all four has been checked and double checked just to be sure it's not under inflation. I've had the alignment checked and after $250 they tell me that it was just fine. If I'm buying tires soon I'd like to know if the specialty trailer tire is the only option.
Thanks forthe all the help
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_6584.jpg
Views:	140
Size:	60.7 KB
ID:	42818  
Canonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 06:50 PM   #88
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: X
Posts: 2,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonman View Post
I'd like to hear what Tireman 9 thinks about using passenger tires.
He's already spoken about that. Just do a search.
BarryD0706 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 06:51 PM   #89
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bullard View Post
Has anyone ever given thought that trailer tires are of less quality than passenger tires? That they may be made to DOT standards that are well below the DOT standards of passenger tires? Compare the weight of both.... the passenger tire weighs more... i.e. has stronger belts and sidewall components. If you are REALLY a non believer, cut sections (from bead to bead) with a metal band saw, buff the cut surfaces and compare the components in the tire. I have driven on trailer tires that were pathetic and changed to passenger. In every case, without fail, the passenger significantly out performed.
Mike, I am pretty sure this is not true.

Trailer tires (ST) are made specifically to be installed on a trailer. They have lower rolling friction (better gas mileage), stiffer sidewalls (for hard twisting turns), and more lubricants in the rubber (to keep them flexible since they sit more often than they roll).

Passenger tires (P) are the worst possible choice for a trailer as they have the lowest load carrying ability of all tire types. "Light Truck" (LT) tires of the correct load range would be a much better choice if you insist on not using the proper tires on your trailer.

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact:

Walter C. Cannon
Executive Director
RV Safety & Education Foundation
321-453-7673
Fax 321-453-3853

__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 06:54 PM   #90
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonman View Post
My ST tires are wearing from both shoulders or from the outside in.
I suggest you weigh your camper. This wear pattern is typical for under inflation based on the actual weight on the tires. If you are already at your maximum tire pressure, your camper is overloaded.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	securedownload.jpg
Views:	157
Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	42820  
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 07:09 PM   #91
Senior Member
 
Canonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Jordan, Utah
Posts: 349
Thanks Herk, I've checked and we're 5300# dry and under #6500 with DW's closet full and pantry stocked. We travel dry to the destination then fill the fresh tank. I can't remember the tire load max (these are the factory originals) but will check when I get home I'm definitely the "Edge Wear" example. Just the DW and myself so I don't think we're overloaded but worth an easy look. TT is 24' and with double axels I would think pretty well set up. Is it possible the extra weight of the slide over those tires would cause the problem more so on that side?
Canonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 07:13 PM   #92
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by herk7769 View Post
Mike, I am pretty sure this is not true.

Trailer tires (ST) are made specifically to be installed on a trailer. They have lower rolling friction (better gas mileage), stiffer sidewalls (for hard twisting turns), and more lubricants in the rubber (to keep them flexible since they sit more often than they roll).

Passenger tires (P) are the worst possible choice for a trailer as they have the lowest load carrying ability of all tire types. "Light Truck" (LT) tires of the correct load range would be a much better choice if you insist on not using the proper tires on your trailer.

If you have any further questions, feel free to contact:

Walter C. Cannon
Executive Director
RV Safety & Education Foundation
321-453-7673
Fax 321-453-3853
Walter,
You need to "section" and buff each type of tire and form your own opinion. I can tell you from my experience passenger tires have a stronger bead, higher stiffer bead filler, heaver polyester sidewall with higher end count, heaver/wider steel belts with higher end count. The tread compounds contain higher concentrations of carbon black and shed water more efficiently. Passenger tires also have significantly better ride characteristics such as radial forces, lateral forces and conicity forces. Claims of heat buildup are basically a mute issue since the bias tires have been replaced by radial tires. Again, from my experience, and my observations from tire sections, passenger tires are significantly better. I actually suspect that since the quality standards seem to be worse than passenger tires they (trailer tires) are an outlet for poor quality ingredients. One glaring fact remains, a "blow out" in a passenger vehicle is truly life threatening. Whereas a blowout on a trailer is dangerous... it is not as life threatening.

Walter, I believe in my personal experiences. I would seriously appreciate any actual factual opinion otherwise. Section a few tires and tell me what you see.
Mike Bullard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #93
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bullard View Post
Walter,
You need to "section" and buff each type of tire and form your own opinion. I can tell you from my experience passenger tires have a stronger bead, higher stiffer bead filler, heaver polyester sidewall with higher end count, heaver/wider steel belts with higher end count. The tread compounds contain higher concentrations of carbon black and shed water more efficiently. Passenger tires also have significantly better ride characteristics such as radial forces, lateral forces and conicity forces. Claims of heat buildup are basically a mute issue since the bias tires have been replaced by radial tires. Again, from my experience, and my observations from tire sections, passenger tires are significantly better. I actually suspect that since the quality standards seem to be worse than passenger tires they (trailer tires) are an outlet for poor quality ingredients. One glaring fact remains, a "blow out" in a passenger vehicle is truly life threatening. Whereas a blowout on a trailer is dangerous... it is not as life threatening.

Walter, I believe in my personal experiences. I would seriously appreciate any actual factual opinion otherwise. Section a few tires and tell me what you see.

I am not Walter.

Walter is an RV safety engineer at the Center for RV safety and Education.
If you won't buy advice from a real expert; then you certainly don't want to hear anything "I" would have to say.
Herk
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 07:50 PM   #94
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonman View Post
Thanks Herk, I've checked and we're 5300# dry and under #6500 with DW's closet full and pantry stocked. We travel dry to the destination then fill the fresh tank. I can't remember the tire load max (these are the factory originals) but will check when I get home I'm definitely the "Edge Wear" example. Just the DW and myself so I don't think we're overloaded but worth an easy look. TT is 24' and with double axels I would think pretty well set up. Is it possible the extra weight of the slide over those tires would cause the problem more so on that side?
Certainly!

In fact the wear patterns on my 5th wheel are pretty interesting.

I have been inflating all 4 tires to the same air pressure. However, I just got back from an 8,000 mile cross country trip and due to the angle of my 5th wheel when connected, the leading axle's tires are showing slightly OVER inflated wear while the trailing axle's tires are showing slightly UNDER inflated wear.

This spring I will be weighing each axle individually and setting the pressures by axle and not by the aggregate trailer weight (both axles summed together on the scale pad).
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 08:02 PM   #95
Senior Member
 
Canonman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: South Jordan, Utah
Posts: 349
Thanks Herk, really good to get some real world advice. So it's check your tires load range against the TT loaded weight. Rotate front to back and side to side then do the hokey-pokey and when you buy new, buy the right load range ST and GO Camping!
That about it?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	_MG_6540 - Version 2.jpg
Views:	163
Size:	54.6 KB
ID:	42824  
Canonman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2013, 09:33 PM   #96
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canonman View Post
Thanks Herk, really good to get some real world advice. So it's check your tires load range against the TT loaded weight. Rotate front to back and side to side then do the hokey-pokey and when you buy new, buy the right load range ST and GO Camping!
That about it?
Pretty much. When these Marathons are done (maybe 2 more years); another set of Marathons will go right on. I will try to get another 4 from the Gadsden Alabama plant again (code MD), but I would have no problem buying Goodyear from any plant (even the dreaded Chinese plants).

I went UP one load range (C to D) when I bought the Marathons and will be replacing them with load range D again. There is absolutely NO reason (IMO) to go up more than one. Truly a waste of money. I like the ability to run a higher pressure than needed (up to 10 PSI) in case I need to run at higher than 65 mph for safety reasons (like heavy, high speed traffic). Not saying I will; just that I can.

See the attached tech bulletin from Goodyear for speed rating information on Marathons.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Gadsden Alabama Marathon made 2410.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	51.6 KB
ID:	42844  
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Goodyear Tire Speed ratings.pdf (4.14 MB, 96 views)
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 03:12 AM   #97
Incheon, S. Korea
 
BigBaron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Posts: 1,142
Tireman has written about weighing each tire individually. Sometimes the front axle has significantly different loading.
After reading a thread about a fiver that was 1,000 lbs. heavier on the driver side, I think that would be the only way to go.
An LT tire is the only option to an ST, but you have to reduce the load capacity by 10% if using it as a trailer tire.
A pressure monitoring system would be a good idea, too.
__________________
Me, Julie, Lil' Barry, Faith, and OSD Fang
2012 Coachmen Clipper 126 - Don't even have a TV anymore.
I don't know when we'll be able to go camping again...
BigBaron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 06:25 AM   #98
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBaron View Post
Tireman has written about weighing each tire individually. Sometimes the front axle has significantly different loading.
After reading a thread about a fiver that was 1,000 lbs. heavier on the driver side, I think that would be the only way to go.
An LT tire is the only option to an ST, but you have to reduce the load capacity by 10% if using it as a trailer tire.
A pressure monitoring system would be a good idea, too.
Also very good advice...
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 08:21 AM   #99
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 11
I will not get into my credentials other than saying I personally have nearly 50 years of experience with tires... from development, manufacturing, testing and using.

There is a lot of miss information and sales hype regarding trailer tires. In my personal opinion, they are significantly inferior to equivalent passenger tires.

A case in point, the rear of a front wheel drive vehicle is nothing more than a trailer. Those tires will see the same forces, wear and stress as those on a trailer. Why is it those passenger tires outlast trailer tires by tens of thousands of miles?

Passenger tires are produced to a better standard.

If you doubt it, cut sections of both tires and compare for yourself.
Mike Bullard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2013, 10:04 AM   #100
Site Team - Lou
 
Herk7769's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 22,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Bullard View Post
I will not get into my credentials other than saying I personally have nearly 50 years of experience with tires... from development, manufacturing, testing and using.

There is a lot of miss information and sales hype regarding trailer tires. In my personal opinion, they are significantly inferior to equivalent passenger tires.

A case in point, the rear of a front wheel drive vehicle is nothing more than a trailer. Those tires will see the same forces, wear and stress as those on a trailer. Why is it those passenger tires outlast trailer tires by tens of thousands of miles?

Passenger tires are produced to a better standard.

If you doubt it, cut sections of both tires and compare for yourself.
Mike,

Do you still work for Continental Tire? I looked at their web page and they not only do not make an ST tire; they don't even make a true LT tire.

The closest tire with an actual load rating is for an SUV and they stress TRACTION not load carrying capability.

Continental USA Car / Light Truck / SUV -*CrossContact
__________________
Lou, Laura, & Freya the wonder dog
2008 GMC Sierra 3000HD Crewcab SB Allison Duramax
2019 Flagstaff 8529FLS - Pullrite 3300
HAM CALLSIGN - KC3FFW
Herk7769 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
led pad

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:17 AM.