Tire failures and a trip to the scales (CAT) - Page 3

**Tireman9** · 05-19-2016, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingFisher

I spend some time on the road and have rv haulers both pass and meet me, going hell bent for leather. All that extra heat from them speeding however many miles to their destination can't be good for the tires. they may be damaged before the trailer is purchased.

Yup. Can confirm based on cross country trip with only passing one TT when my cruse was set to 62 mph but had dozens of TT pass me.

k4lp · 05-19-2016, 02:21 PM

I have to agree with you on this, I have filed several actions on line with the NHTSA, and talked to them on several occasions. The primary concern is life and injuries . To them a trailer is just that, it is not supposed to carry passengers in any state. 20 years ago some states permitted 5th wheels to have people inside while running, but that to my knowledge stopped years before the Chicom tire invasion. The only reason the Ford/Firestone recall was forced is people were being killed, and low tire pressure was a big factor. People wanted a smooth car like ride from a truck like vehicle and tire pressure was a easy out. Just my opinion and everybody has one of those also.

**Tireman9** · 05-19-2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k4lp

I have to agree with you on this, I have filed several actions on line with the NHTSA, and talked to them on several occasions. The primary concern is life and injuries . To them a trailer is just that, it is not supposed to carry passengers in any state. 20 years ago some states permitted 5th wheels to have people inside while running, but that to my knowledge stopped years before the Chicom tire invasion. The only reason the Ford/Firestone recall was forced is people were being killed, and low tire pressure was a big factor. People wanted a smooth car like ride from a truck like vehicle and tire pressure was a easy out. Just my opinion and everybody has one of those also.

Good for you. Yes they do have to prioritize and of course death and personal injury gets first attention. It still would not hurt for there to be complaints on file. I am aware of a couple actions on ST tires and a few on TT but nothing significant.

It is telling when a number of people on this or other forums complain long & loud about poor quality but if I look at the list of complaints I find only one or two complaints where the needed information was provided. It's always easier to complain on the Internet or around a campfire than to take the 5 or 10 minutes it takes to file the complaint with NHTSA. I also find it interesting that some people feel they should get a new tire but can't be bothered to provide the failed tire for examination. Tell me a company or product that will give you a replacement without requiring the failed unit be returned.

IMO the best action would be for people to demand better warranties from the RV dealers but all too often an extra mirror on the wall is what makes the sale.

spock123 · 05-22-2016, 01:58 PM

In my opinion and that's not worth much, the number one thing you can do is check your tires often and INSTALL A TPMS that you trust. Just my two cents

Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

johnruff · 05-22-2016, 03:52 PM

TPMS are a good idea but be careful. You need to have metal valve stems so you can run some of the TPMS devices. Is that true.

**Tireman9** · 05-22-2016, 04:37 PM

There are two different basic "rubber" valve stems. The standard "snap-in" stem such as the TR 413 which is rated for a max of 65 psi. There is also a "High Pressure" rubber stem that is rated to 100 psi.

The addition of the TPM sensor weight on the end of these rubber stems has been reported to occasionally result in early life failure due to flex fatigue. Neither of these valve stems were designed to have this weight added to them. This is why many people, including myself strongly recommend the use of bolt in metal stems when a TPM sensor is to he attached.

In all probability the standard stem will not fail in the initial few thousand miles or maybe not even in the first year usage. However a valve stem failure can result in a very rapid loss of all the air as the resulting hole is almost 1/2" in diameter and even minute movement can result in a fatigue failure of the rubber valve.

Using a metal stem in not required by any law or regulation I know of but it is defiantly a preferred practice aimed at improving safety of vehicle operation.

In life there are many things that are simply not good practice such as running with scissors or standing on the top platform of a step ladder or holding fireworks in your hand when they are lit or texting while driving but some people choose to do these things and occasionally they and others pay the price of these actions.

johnruff · 05-22-2016, 04:41 PM

I certainly understand the part about complaining and providing proof to the tire manf and to the NHTSA. However, that being said, why is it always up to us, the consumer, to provide 1000s of complaints to get something changed? The tire manf know they are providing crap and they know most people will not take the time to complain or pursue legal action. I, for one, am sick of companies taking advantage of consumers by providing crap (tires and everything else) and just knowing that most people will put up with it or they will not get caught and the profit outweighs all the legal possibilities. I just spent over $1100 to replace the Towmax tires on my RV so I would not have to worry about things on my month long retirement trip. The fact that we even have to consider TPMS devices on our tires should tell us all that we are being supplied an inferior product. I have been pulling Trailers and 5ers for for over 20 years and until my current RV, I never worried about tires or had a problem. When I replaced the Towmax tires, I was able to have the dealer give me $30 each for the five of them which is what he said he paid for them. Why would any manf put a $30 tire on a $50k RV - greed and profit! Say what you want, it is nothing more that cutting corners. I, for one, will never accept another RV without GM Unisteel tires. I am not going to spend $100s to buy a TPMS system to tell me when cheap tires have failed that should never have been used to begin with. If the RV manf did not use this junk, it would not be manufactured would it? Would a $1000 really make a difference in anyone's RV purchase? Do you worry about your car tires that way and would people put up with it if they did?
Sadly, it is not just RV tires, it is everything these days - everything is planned obsolescence and throw-away. Until we start demanding better from the dealers, it will not get better and it is sad that we have to demand it and not have it delivered to us as a service or due to competition.

Blackhat6mike · 05-22-2016, 05:08 PM

IMHO, please don't discount having a TPMS unless you have some other way of knowing you have picked up a nail/screw or have a faulty valve stem. Normal problems will still occur even with perfect tires. Been there, done that. I've had 5 blowouts on Chinese garbage tires and now run Maxxis M8008s all around with two spares just in case. I wouldn't leave the driveway without my TST 507rv unit.
We are currently in Mistletoe State Park in GA and headed up on The Blue Ridge Parkway Tuesday headed for the Meadows of Dan in VA for another week, then back down to Lake Lanier Island, GA for another week. The BRP is no place to have a blowout with the Chinese junk. I don't sweat it with the Maxxis.

spock123 · 05-22-2016, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tireman9

There are two different basic "rubber" valve stems. The standard "snap-in" stem such as the TR 413 which is rated for a max of 65 psi. There is also a "High Pressure" rubber stem that is rated to 100 psi.

The addition of the TPM sensor weight on the end of these rubber stems has been reported to occasionally result in early life failure due to flex fatigue. Neither of these valve stems were designed to have this weight added to them. This is why many people, including myself strongly recommend the use of bolt in metal stems when a TPM sensor is to he attached.

In all probability the standard stem will not fail in the initial few thousand miles or maybe not even in the first year usage. However a valve stem failure can result in a very rapid loss of all the air as the resulting hole is almost 1/2" in diameter and even minute movement can result in a fatigue failure of the rubber valve.

Using a metal stem in not required by any law or regulation I know of but it is defiantly a preferred practice aimed at improving safety of vehicle operation.

In life there are many things that are simply not good practice such as running with scissors or standing on the top platform of a step ladder or holding fireworks in your hand when they are lit or texting while driving but some people choose to do these things and occasionally they and others pay the price of these actions.

I have a 2012 Silverado 3500HD SRW and I have ran the TST 507 the whole time, 75,000 miles with two different sets of tires. I have 60lbs in front tires and 80lbs in rear tires, I have never had a problem. I have rubber valve stems. I have never had a flat, I have never had any problems with my tires other than wearing out. I pull a Cedar Creek 32RL fifth wheel. I have been to Yellowstone from NC. I normally drive 63mph when I'm pulling the camper but when I have to more. Empty I run 70 to 80 on the Interstate, around town whatever I can get away with. The bottom line is I have no problems using rubber valve stems.

Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

johnruff · 05-22-2016, 05:32 PM

TPMS is a good thing. Just saying that the reason most of us use them now is out of necessity due to the inferior product we have to put up with as opposed to safety concerns. I have not had any problems with tires since the 70s when I had a flat on my F100 on the way to the golf course.

**Tireman9** · 05-22-2016, 06:44 PM

Any tire from any MFG can suffer a run low flex failure (i.e. Blowout) due to puncture, cut of leaking valve. Leaking air is what TPMS are designed and intended to warn about.

Poor or lower quality (design or manufacturing) would seldom result in a leaking tire. Weakness in the design/mfg of the belt package will more likely lead to a tread and/or belt separation and TPMS will almost never provide advance warning of this failure mode.

If you don't know or understand the real Root Cause and the mode of failure, how will you know that your "corrective action" is actually addressing the Root Cause.
You can think of it this way. If your car doesn't start, will replacing the battery solve the problem if the Root Cause is dirt in the fuel?

bob caldwell · 05-22-2016, 07:15 PM

Had 2 tire failers on this trip from Vanc., Wash. to Mt. Airy, NC. They were G rated Carlisle's, one went bad at 10 mph, and the other at 65.....rr and lf on this trailer..not a bit overloaded, I put it on age of tires.......they were on it when I got it......I replaced all 4, and keep 1 take off to see date code....will do that tomorrow..so, as it turned out, now have 2 g rated Hercules and 2 d rated Goodyear St's....all that was available at the time....so I'll be doing a tire test on the way back home

**Tireman9** · 05-22-2016, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob caldwell

Had 2 tire failers on this trip from Vanc., Wash. to Mt. Airy, NC. They were G rated Carlisle's, one went bad at 10 mph, and the other at 65.....rr and lf on this trailer..not a bit overloaded, I put it on age of tires.......they were on it when I got it......I replaced all 4, and keep 1 take off to see date code....will do that tomorrow..so, as it turned out, now have 2 g rated Hercules and 2 d rated Goodyear St's....all that was available at the time....so I'll be doing a tire test on the way back home

I don't doubt that you discovered the tire failure when you were traveling 10 mph but clearly something happened earlier in the tire life. What was the inflation at the time of the "failure".
Since you apparently need LR-G tires and I assume you were running the specified 105? How are you compensating for the significant reduction in load capacity when you went to LR D Goodyears?

k4lp · 05-22-2016, 09:30 PM

I have been running with TPMS system since 2009, but all my failures were of the catastrophic type. explosion and then seconds later the warning. I have fixed ones set for 75 psi on metal stems. If I had picked up a nail or something else causing a slow leak it would alarm. But I agree with your statement

**Tireman9** · 05-23-2016, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k4lp

I have been running with TPMS system since 2009, but all my failures were of the catastrophic type. explosion and then seconds later the warning. I have fixed ones set for 75 psi on metal stems. If I had picked up a nail or something else causing a slow leak it would alarm. But I agree with your statement

Sorry but "Catistrophic" is not sufficiently descriptive to allow me to offer an analytical opinion. You might want to look at the pictures and the results of the autopsy for this "catistrophic" failure. Now this one was a Run Low Flex failure but the owner was not running a TPMS so had no warning which is why he originally thought it was a "defective" tire as he had checked the air 50 miles prior.

RE Belt/Tread Separations. No TPMS will provide warning for this condition. Close visual inspection and the identified "free spin" inspection, would probably discover a vast majority of these failures before the tire disintegrates. Thats why I suggest an annual inspection for TT tires. An impending belt separation on a TV or MH can many times be felt by the driver of a TV or Motorhome if attention paid, with no distractions on smooth road.

northstar1960 · 05-23-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spock123

I have a 2012 Silverado 3500HD SRW and I have ran the TST 507 the whole time, 75,000 miles with two different sets of tires. I have 60lbs in front tires and 80lbs in rear tires, I have never had a problem. I have rubber valve stems. I have never had a flat, I have never had any problems with my tires other than wearing out. I pull a Cedar Creek 32RL fifth wheel. I have been to Yellowstone from NC. I normally drive 63mph when I'm pulling the camper but when I have to more. Empty I run 70 to 80 on the Interstate, around town whatever I can get away with. The bottom line is I have no problems using rubber valve stems.

Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

you don't have problems with rubber valve stems YET . i quit using them yrs ago when they all starting coming from China . had to many flats on my autos from bad valve stems . just a couple weeks ago caravaning with another RV'er got a call from him on the road (he was behind me ) saying that a passing car signaled him his TT tire was low .lucky we were right at an exit . pulled off checked the tire and low and behold the valve stem was cracked and leaking . filled tire and limped to a walmart a mile away where they installed another cheap rubber valve stem but it got him going .
when I put the new e rated tires on my TH only 10 days after purchase metal valve stems were a mandatory thing same with my TV . the cost is cheap compared to sitting on the side of the road with a tire that now is now good because a cheap valve stem . just saying you'll save yourself a lot of headache by just installing metal stems .

you know what Murphy says .

spock123 · 05-23-2016, 11:56 AM

I am just saying I have at least 30,000 miles on my truck tires. I don't keep the locks on the sensors so that helps a little

Sent from my iPhone using Forest River Forums

northstar1960 · 05-23-2016, 05:07 PM

you have aftermarket sensors on your truck ? i had a car once with the tps what a pain . i always check my tires don't need a sensor to remind me . the bad part was when i put the snow tire and rims on no sensor and the dash light became an annoyance . Seems the sensors make since for a TT , TH , 5'er but also seems by the time it tells you you have a flat it's to late

k4lp · 05-23-2016, 05:12 PM

This is what I mean by Catastrophic, Speed 60 mph I-95, 0400 in the am cool road and tire inflated to 80 psi 75 miles from home.
Power King Tow Max ST 235-80-r16

Blackhat6mike · 05-23-2016, 05:27 PM

Soooo, what went wrong? Pressure at max, temps under 100* and please don't tell me I hit pot holes with all four! TowMax. All under three years old and yes I did send the pix to NHTSA. Never heard a word from them. Nada. Coincidence or garbage tires? There is one more, but I didn't take a pix of it as I put it in the trash at the CG.

You may also like: