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Old 03-06-2022, 12:47 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by SailorSam20500 View Post
As Tireman9 has posted. The High Limit is often misunderstood by people.



The High Limit is the maximum load the tire is designed to carry. The pressure at this limit printed on the tire is the MINUMUM inflation pressure required for the tire to carry that load. The tire sidewall does NOT indicate the maximum inflation pressure allowed for the tire.

I almost think the sidewall should say: "Tire Maximum load is XXX lbs. MINIMUM cold inflation pressure to carry XXX lbs is YYY PSI".
Not a bad idea but even something as simple as that will mean different things to different people.

We already have so many required bits of info molded into the tire's sidewall the print has to be small to get it all on.

Any more and we"ll have to go back to the "balloon tires" of old or manufacturers will have to put a QR Code on the sidewall. Want to see the warnings and instructions? Scan with your smartphone and read the multi-page manual on it's screen.

Even then there will be different interpretations.
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Old 03-06-2022, 04:03 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Lubehead View Post
Interesting thread,I have a related question; what have users of TST system found to be practical battery life on the sensors?
Hi Dave, I replace the batteries in my TPMS sensors once a year and all at once.

After a year I seem to start having problems and it's a real pain to replace the batteries one by one when they start dying.

-Grouchy
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Old 03-06-2022, 04:19 PM   #23
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Special Thanks NXR & TitanMike for a comprehensive answer to my initial question.

FYI, we have a small class C motorhome with the screw on tire sensors. I'm curious about the "Pass-Through" tire sensors that let you adjust pressure without removing each sensor. THAT is a PIA, espec with dualies!

Do you have any experience with the Pass throughs?

-Grouchy
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Old 03-06-2022, 04:22 PM   #24
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You are going to find at 65 cold they will go a little above 80 at times when they get hot. Might want to use 85.
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Old 03-06-2022, 07:10 PM   #25
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What I’ve done is this..

Took my 5th wheel to a CAT Sales and weighed it. Now I know roughly the weight on each side loaded to travel. My RV tires carry 10000 lbs and the truck carries 3000 lbs (pin weight). now I know my rv tires carry 10K but probably not evenely side to side since all my appliances are on the drivers side so I assume drivers side 2 wheels carry 6K pounds and passengers side carries 4K pounds

Now I look at the load rating versus tire pressure for my tires and see at what air pressure are my tires overloaded. If I’m above that pressure I don’t worry about it as the pressure will increase as you drive down the road.

The cold tire fill pressure is the “recommended “ pressure not the mandatory pressure.

My GYE tires are rated to carry 3K pounds at 65psi… so I would not go lower than that..

I live in Florida so I always start at max recommend (80psi) but a lot of my travels take me to cooler weather. In the morning my TPMS will be alarming because my tire pressure is just 70psi. I don’t care because I know my tires are good for lower pressure than that for load they are carrying. Once I’m on the road for 10-15 minutes they are approaching 80psi.

Find the safe load carrying capacity for,your tires and then you will know if you are good to go or not.

Yup. I use that kind of an approach. If it's real cold I know I may be a bit low in the morning. I also know that will change as I roll. So if they are all proportional, I hit the reset to turn off the alarm then watch the monitor closely until the pressure comes up and the red lite warning goes away. That resets the alarm so it will sound if they drop again.
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Old 03-06-2022, 08:11 PM   #26
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Yup. I use that kind of an approach. If it's real cold I know I may be a bit low in the morning. I also know that will change as I roll. So if they are all proportional, I hit the reset to turn off the alarm then watch the monitor closely until the pressure comes up and the red lite warning goes away. That resets the alarm so it will sound if they drop again.
That works as long as that lower pressure is above the minimum for the weight on the tires. Those load/inflation chart pressures hold true regardless of temp.
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Old 03-07-2022, 03:39 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Chuck_S View Post
What is this a trailer or motor home?

Trailer tire pressure should be maximum cold tire pressure as molded on the tire sidewall.
-- Chuck

The pressure molded on the side is for the MAXIMUM load the tire is designed for. The specified pressure is the MINIMUM pressure needed to support the maximum load.





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Originally Posted by rrolphe View Post
What temperature is 'cold' assumed to be when the ambient outside temperature can vary greatly depending on where you're starting out from. In other words, is 110 psi @ 50 degrees the same as 110 psi @ 70 degrees?

Ambient temperature is when the tire is the same as surrounding air temp. Vehicle parked for at least 2 hours and not having sun shining on the tires (sun will warm the tire above ambient temp). Take the temperature before departing. Again, pressures shown in tire guides specify the MINIMUM pressure required to support the specified load.
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Old 03-07-2022, 05:53 PM   #28
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That works as long as that lower pressure is above the minimum for the weight on the tires. Those load/inflation chart pressures hold true regardless of temp.

Roger that:


I have a really narrow range, For instance, back duel tires are full max Gross recommend 95 psi cold. That is my base, although at my actual weight I could go lower to 90-92 or thereabouts. I set the alarms at 90. Anything 90 or below sets off alarm. Worst I have rolled with is 89 and it is above 90 in just a very few minutes. Fronts call for 115 at full gross. At my weight 105 would be fine, I set alarms at 108, I think, and shoot for 110 cold pressure 9still a pretty firm ride but better that then low pressure. So if I start the day with an alarm it us usually still above 105 and I do not worry.


I just watch them closely for the first few miles, usually slow anyway on way back to the highway, then by time I am ready to roll my warnings are reset. Thankfully it is not often an issue because we never roll until it has started to warm up, usually 10ish.
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Old 03-07-2022, 07:19 PM   #29
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Roger that:


I have a really narrow range, For instance, back duel tires are full max Gross recommend 95 psi cold. That is my base, although at my actual weight I could go lower to 90-92 or thereabouts. I set the alarms at 90. Anything 90 or below sets off alarm. Worst I have rolled with is 89 and it is above 90 in just a very few minutes. Fronts call for 115 at full gross. At my weight 105 would be fine, I set alarms at 108, I think, and shoot for 110 cold pressure 9still a pretty firm ride but better that then low pressure. So if I start the day with an alarm it us usually still above 105 and I do not worry.


I just watch them closely for the first few miles, usually slow anyway on way back to the highway, then by time I am ready to roll my warnings are reset. Thankfully it is not often an issue because we never roll until it has started to warm up, usually 10ish.
You really need to just set your tire pressures before driving and if the high pressure alarm sounds just raise the alarm setting.

Chasing pressures to keep the
Alarm from sounding is the wrong approach.
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Old 03-10-2022, 07:47 PM   #30
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Interesting thread,I have a related question; what have users of TST system found to be practical battery life on the sensors?
It depends on whether you have internal or external sensors. They say externals are good for a year so I just change them at the beginning of the season as part of spring maintenance.
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Old 03-10-2022, 10:29 PM   #31
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Interesting thread,I have a related question; what have users of TST system found to be practical battery life on the sensors?
Mine are 22 months and were still working. I put new batteries in last week.

They were dead, they just didn't know it yet.
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Old 03-10-2022, 10:36 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Grouchyoldman View Post
Special Thanks NXR & TitanMike for a comprehensive answer to my initial question.

FYI, we have a small class C motorhome with the screw on tire sensors. I'm curious about the "Pass-Through" tire sensors that let you adjust pressure without removing each sensor. THAT is a PIA, espec with dualies!

Do you have any experience with the Pass throughs?

-Grouchy
I use pass through sensors and love them. Super easy to add air. And have had no problems with them in the few years they’ve been installed.

On a side note, when you have your tires changed you should also change the extension tubes. I didn’t have a clue. I had a slow leak. When I took it to the truck tire shop they had me go pick up some new ones because they didn’t carry them for coaches. All changed and the leak is fixed. Glad they were honest because they could of tried to get me to buy a new tire.
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Old 03-11-2022, 01:21 PM   #33
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As posted on my RV Tire Safety blog Aug 2017

How I program my TPMS


As you know I am a strong supporter of having all RVs being equipped with Tire Pressure Monitor Systems. Since 2004 cars and many pickups with ratings less than 10,000# GVWR have come with TPMS installed by the factory.

RV companies have not been providing TPMS even as optional equipment from the factory, so we owners have had to make the purchase and install the warning systems ourselves. This means we need to ensure the warning levels are appropriate for our RV.

While I can't address how to program every different type or brand system, I can tell you how I have the system I purchased set up. I hope that after reading this post you can sit down with the information that is specific to your RV, i.e., load on each tire position, tire size, Load Range and inflation info, and ensure your settings are appropriate for your personal situation. So I suggest you dig out the instructions that came with your TPMS and review your settings.

First off, some terms:

MOP - Minimum Operating Pressure - This is the minimum pressure that I think you should ever operate your tires. This pressure is found in the Load/Pressure tables and is the minimum pressure needed to support the actual measured tire load.

CIP - Cold Inflation Pressure. This is the pressure you would set your tires to before driving on them. The tire should not be warmed by either driving on them or having the tire in direct sunlight for the previous two hours. Some folks call this their "Set Pressure" or "Baseline Pressure". I suggest the CIP be set to MOP + 10%, or +10 psi, but not to exceed the pressure molded on the tire sidewall associated with its max load, as this tire pressure may be the intended max CIP for the wheel.

Tire Load - This is the actual measured load on the tires when the RV is at the heaviest you would ever expect to be. Ideally this has been learned by having individual scales under each tire position on your RV. If you can't get this number then at least get the RV on a truck scale such as a CAT scale at a truck stop and learn the actual load on each axle. We want to know each tire position or each axle, as loads are almost never completely evenly distributed. It is not unusual to have tire on an axle or on one end of an axle to have 500# to 1,000# more than another position. There are a number of posts in this blog on load and how to get the loads on each tire position. Note duals are considered one position. If you can't get individual axle ends measured then I suggest you use the measured axle load and assume one end has 53% of the axle load. This would provide at least a partial margin for error.

Hot Running Inflation - This is the pressure we see on a tire after it has been running down the road. I have previously covered the relation between Temperature and pressure in THIS post. Normally for properly inflated tires this will be 10% to 20% above your CIP.


When I bought my Class-C unit in 2008 the first "add-on" was a TPMS. At the time I was not really aware of the selection of TPMS available for the RV aftermarket but I found a system made by German electronics company Hella. It was an internal system but it was designed for passenger cars so I had some problems as my hot tire pressures occasionally exceeded the high pressure warning level programed by Hella. I learned to ignore the occasional high pressure warning levels. In 2009 I started to go to FMCA RV conventions and rallies where I discovered the aftermarket systems designed for the RV use. Based on features I felt important, I purchased a TireTraker TPMS.
When we bought our new 2016 Class-C coach, I needed a new TPMS and selected the TireTraker TT500 as I felt the features plus the lifetime guarantee made it the best option available for me.

Programing the TPMS:
This is usually a two-step process. First, you need to have the monitor/display "learn" which sensor is on which tire. For the TT500 it involves stepping through the monitor settings, identifying a position and installing a sensor at the appropriate position. Other brand TPMSs may have different setup steps or even may come pre-programed with each sensor marked by position. It's the next step that I think is also important to get right for your specific needs.

Setting the warning levels:
Before we start the actual process of setting the levels, it is important to know what the various levels should be. You also need to know which pressure warning levels you can set and which may need extra work if you can't set the levels yourself. Again I can't address every brand TPMS so you may need to re-read your manual or even contact the support people at your brand TPMS.

1. Low Pressure warning level. Some systems have a fixed % below your baseline pressure; others may allow you to set this level independent of the CIP. You need to know how to set this level or what the % below the baseline your system works on. My TT500 is pre-programed to warn at -15% from the "Baseline" or CIP.

2. High Pressure warning level. The TireTraker is pre-programed at "Baseline" + 25%.

3. High Temperature level. The TireTraker, as are many TPMS, is set to warn of high temperature at the 70 C to 75 C (158 F to 167 F) range. IMO it should be remembered that it is low pressure that generated high tire temperature. If you get a High Temp warning but the pressure is OK, then your sensor has detected high temp from metal components that transfer heat faster than rubber. This might indicate a bearing or brake problem which should be checked as soon as possible.

Here things get a bit complex:
We do not want to operate tires when under-inflated but if we set the CIP or Baseline pressure to just what is needed to support the load the TPMS will not warn till we are 15% underinflated. If our CIP is MOP + 10% (See definition of MOP above) we still could end up with an underinflated tire. So to meet my goal of never operating in an underinflated condition, I will need to set my TPMS "Baseline" pressure to MOP + 15%.

My situation and solution:
As measured by RVSEF (RV Safety & Education Foundation):
My front tires are loaded LF 1,900# RF 2,100# and
Rear Duals LR 3,550# RR 3,850#
Tires are LT225/75R16 LR-E

Based on Load & Inflation tables for my size tires, my MOP for my front tires on my Class-C is 60 psi based on the 2,100 load and also happens to be 60 psi based on my read dual load of 3,850.

I add 10 psi to 60psi and get 70 psi for my CIP.

If I want my TPMS to warn me before I get to my MOP,I need to set the "Baseline" pressure on my TPMS to MOP + 15%, which for 60 psi is 9 psi. So in my case my "Baseline" for the TPMS and my CIP are within 1 psi of each other. I don't worry about trying to measure or set my tire pressures closer than +/- 1 psi. I would say that if you are within +/- 2 psi when setting your CIP you are in good shape.

We need to be careful when discussing safety margins or pressure changes as people with Load Range C, D and E tires will have different calculations than the folks with LR-G & H tires where 15% might be 18 psi.

The High Pressure warning level for TireTraker is Baseline +25%, so with a Baseline of 69 to 70 psi, that equates to 87 psi. On a recent trip to Indianapolis in the heat of the day I noted my tire pressure had gone up about 15%, so my settings worked out for me.
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Old 03-11-2022, 01:24 PM   #34
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You really need to just set your tire pressures before driving and if the high pressure alarm sounds just raise the alarm setting.

Chasing pressures to keep the
Alarm from sounding is the wrong approach.

As an actual tire design engineer I agree.
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Old 03-12-2022, 05:56 PM   #35
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CIP - Cold Inflation Pressure. This is the pressure you would set your tires to before driving on them. The tire should not be warmed by either driving on them or having the tire in direct sunlight for the previous two hours. Some folks call this their "Set Pressure" or "Baseline Pressure". I suggest the CIP be set to MOP + 10%, or +10 psi, but not to exceed the pressure molded on the tire sidewall associated with its max load, as this tire pressure may be the intended max CIP for the wheel.

Just trying to completely understand this for myself.


My understanding so far, is that the load/inflation guides specify the minimum pressure required for a specified load. Implying that inflating to some reasonably higher CIP is an acceptable practice. So under that understanding, shouldn't the pressure molded on the tire sidewall also be the minimum pressure required to support the molded max load? If I actually had a situation where I had the max load, why shouldn't I inflate to say 5 PSI over the specified pressure. This would provide some insurance, for say, a pressure gauge that reads a few pounds high. I would think slightly over inflated is better than under.

To date, I have never seen a document that specified simply the maximum CIP for a tire.
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Old 03-13-2022, 12:28 AM   #36
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To date, I have never seen a document that specified simply the maximum CIP for a tire.


Why not just keep it simple. Load inflation tables give minimum pressure for a given weight. When you reach the max capacity of the tire the pressure needed to carry that weight is is the max cold inflation pressure which is molded in the sidewall. If you want a safety margin when at the max weight don't add more air, leave some stuff home.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:34 AM   #37
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Trailer tires, vehicle tires, lawnmower tires, whatever tires should be adjusted on a cold morning (winter?) after sitting all night. Trailer tires should be adjusted to whatever it says on the sidewalls. That is where they handle the maximum weight and will also help stabilize the trailer as it is towed. No need to adjust the pressure again until next winter, if it has decreased.
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Old 03-13-2022, 06:55 AM   #38
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If you determine the CIP to low, it will give sometimes that high temperature in the tire, that pressure goes above the set high pressure and temperature warning level.
Seting those higher would only mask the real problem then.

Best then is to set the CIP right, so overheating wont happen in normal use.

Then if you can only set the high and low pressure and temperature to a percentage of the CIP, and its still gives false warnings,you could considder setting the CIP a little differen so the border wich gives warnings shifts also.

But when descending the mountains, and using the brakes to often, temp in tire can rise to 212degrF/ 100degrC, and any high allarmsetting wont be enaugh.
So ignore the warning then, concentrate on the road and drive slower, so braking is less needed.
Can be anoingly slow for those behind you.
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Old 03-13-2022, 08:26 AM   #39
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The maximum inflation pressure printed on the sidewall is a cold inflation pressure before the vehicle is moved. After you adjust cold inflation pressure daily you should not have to change it for a 20-30 degree change in outside air temperature. The tire will heat up while driving and expect a 10-15% increase in tire pressure. Do not adjust the pressure while the tire is hot or you will be under inflated. Always use the recommended tire pressure on the tire and loading info decal on the RV and again, always inflate cold. I would set low pressure alarm at 90% of cold recommended inflation and high at 120-125%. Good luck.
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Old 03-13-2022, 03:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by SailorSam20500 View Post
Just trying to completely understand this for myself.


My understanding so far, is that the load/inflation guides specify the minimum pressure required for a specified load. Implying that inflating to some reasonably higher CIP is an acceptable practice. So under that understanding, shouldn't the pressure molded on the tire sidewall also be the minimum pressure required to support the molded max load? It is. If I actually had a situation where I had the max load, why shouldn't I inflate to say 5 PSI over the specified pressure. You can This would provide some insurance, for say, a pressure gauge that reads a few pounds high. I would think slightly over inflated is better than under. It is. If I actually had a situation where I had the max load, why shouldn't I

To date, I have never seen a document that specified simply the maximum CIP for a tire.

Answers are in RED

A document that stated only some MAx psi would be almost impossible to establish as just to make things more complicated there is a "T" or time function involved for tire failure due to inflation. I have conducted tests where a tire was inflated to 250% and all was ok till 18 days had passed then the tires failed. The Time is different for different levels of over inflation and for tires with different constructions or even just different sizes.
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