Tow vehicle vs trailer tire failures

[Mike134]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Two failed sitting in the driveway and a 3rd failed moving the R/V a short distance on my property.
My brother's spare failed while hanging under the R/V.

You guys have some really really bad luck.

[cantxsailor]

I have driven everything you can imagine from bicycles to logging trucks hauling 120,000lb loads. Raced and Rallyed cars and motorcycles too.
I’ve had a total one blowout at highway speed on my old FordF150. Never anything else. I had a wheel come off a trailer once after someone tried to steal the tires but other than that nothing. Several million miles between long haul trucking and generally driving around. My current F250 7.3 has 360,000 miles on it.
I’d say I was living right but I KNOW that’s not the case. Stay safe out there.

[skipatroller]

In January of 2019 we bought our retirement camper, a heartland 5ver Bighorn Traveler 39MB that is 42' long with a dry weight of 14,000 lbs and at the end of last season before I put it in storage for the winter and doing my routing check I discovered a bad tire, after further inspection I discovered the tires to have issues.

So let my research begin, out of the gate the tires they put on these units meet the bare minimum for rating capacity, after doing some research I have discovered a much higher rated tire, the problem is I needed to go to a bigger wheel and tire size. I currently have a 8 lug 16" wheel with a 10 ply tire. I just purchased 8 lug 17.5" wheels, these wheels will allow me to put a commercial trailer tire on that has 16 ply's and is rated for 1,200 additional pound per tire from the original tires. because it is only a dual axle trailer these are what should have been there in the first place

Yes it is an investment but one I feel will make my road time less troublesome

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

P and LT tires are held to DIFFERENT standards than ST tires, NOT "higher."

Long haul 18-Wheelers don't use P or LT tires.

For an RV example, the Sailun ST235/80R16 is rated 4,080 pounds each. Most LT tires would fail quickly under a 4,080 load, so it's wrong to say LT tires are held to "higher" standards than ST tires without critical limitations.

ST tires are solely for trailers. Some LT tires are acceptable for use on trailers, but it may not be easy to verify whether they meet dual axle stress requirements.

I have not found any LT tire rated for 4,000 lb or higher, and I'd appreciate anyone calling one to my attention.

Yes P and LT tires have to pass "different" DOT standards. If by "Higher" phillyg meant more difficult and testing more features philly is correct.
P & LT tires had their testing upgraded in 2002 while ST are still tested to 1970 test standards.
There are no standard tests that would address "tandem" axle application for ST tires.
Yes ST tires are only approved for trailer application, might that be because if you are putting tires on a vehicle carrying passengers you want "better" quality? It is possible that there are some ST type tires capable of passing the LT tire tests but I haven't seen anyone making that claim yet.

[garywilson]

Originally Posted by ARhappycamper

HAHAHA Funny. Ford and others also have this feature. Why would you think GM is the only ?

------------
You are reading too fast. He didn't say that only GM had them, he said he plans on only GM (some of us like GM).

"And that's why I'll never own another vehicle that doesn't have individual tire pressure display."

"And since I plan on sticking with GM tow vehicles, I'll also have trailer tire TPMS."
-----------

Me too.

[Comanchecreek]

OP was pretty general regarding his tire failures. My guess would be that he is not careful regarding brand, pressure and age of the tires. If you all notice he states that when he upgrades weight rating he doesn't have a problem. It's pretty simple, buy good quality tires with the proper weight rating, run a TPMS, and keep track of their age, and you should be OK. Also watch out for crap in the highway. What tires you buy will not protect you from debris. Your trailer is wider than your tow vehicle and even though you miss that hunk of stuff with your TV, your trailer can still hit it.

[John Erzen]

I have had friends with this problem and it was the axle alignment, and others have told me the same thing. For safety you should have this checked as it could cause an accident. Use a person and shop that does this for a living and has a good reputation as there are those that do not actually know how to align the axles. After having this done they can tell you how much the axles were out.

[Tbaughman]

Originally Posted by comfun1

Over my many years of camping I have had six or eight tire failures and they have always been on a trailer, never a tow vehicle. The failures have occurred on different brands and different aged tires. Always the same thing, by the time I discover it there is nothing left of the tire. I always check tire pressure before a trip. I have had two failures with TPMS. I know the TPMS does not guard against sudden loss. When I replace a set of tires I always move up on weight range and as well as I can recall I have not had any of these upgraded tires fail.

Why is it always my trailer tires that fail and never the tow vehicle? Has anyone else had this experience? Just curious.

Mostly trailers sit in one position getting exposed to the elements exactly same place day after day. Beside age this is one of the leading causes. On thing that happens is that when a tire starts going out there may be some tell tale signs like vibrations or changes in tire noise. Since the trailer is somewhat isolated from the tow vehicle its harder to notice those things that would cause you to investigate. Tires on vehicles that are used daily last better than those that are used infrequently. One thing would be to rotate tires more often and request close inspections for tire damage, wear, etc. Well thats my two cents.

PS: Way to go on the new Goodyear tires. Partial quote from Goodyear site
Towing requires a tire we can trust. Goodyear Endurance tires, made right here in the USA (in Gadsden, Alabama and Fayetteville, North Carolina) are the tire of choice for work or for play

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Tbaughman

Mostly trailers sit in one position getting exposed to the elements exactly same place day after day. Beside age this is one of the leading causes. On thing that happens is that when a tire starts going out there may be some tell tale signs like vibrations or changes in tire noise. Since the trailer is somewhat isolated from the tow vehicle its harder to notice those things that would cause you to investigate. Tires on vehicles that are used daily last better than those that are used infrequently. One thing would be to rotate tires more often and request close inspections for tire damage, wear, etc. Well thats my two cents.

PS: Way to go on the new Goodyear tires. Partial quote from Goodyear site
Towing requires a tire we can trust. Goodyear Endurance tires, made right here in the USA (in Gadsden, Alabama and Fayetteville, North Carolina) are the tire of choice for work or for play

I explain why tires on trailers fail more often in my Blog on RV Tire Safety. It's called Interply Shear. There are things the owner can do that can lower this damaging force and things the owner can do to slow the degradation of the belt rubber due to excess heat. These are scientific facts. Yes the new Goodyear has some construction features that can extend tire life in trailer application and I believe that other tire companies are making similar changes in their trailer tires.

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by Mike134

You guys have some really really bad luck.

Where better to have bad luck!

[Mandog]

Originally Posted by comfun1

Over my many years of camping I have had six or eight tire failures and they have always been on a trailer, never a tow vehicle. The failures have occurred on different brands and different aged tires. Always the same thing, by the time I discover it there is nothing left of the tire. I always check tire pressure before a trip. I have had two failures with TPMS. I know the TPMS does not guard against sudden loss. When I replace a set of tires I always move up on weight range and as well as I can recall I have not had any of these upgraded tires fail.

Why is it always my trailer tires that fail and never the tow vehicle? Has anyone else had this experience? Just curious.

I used to have blow outs on my equipment trailers and the tires would show signs of being dry rotted in a couple years.
When looking at campers I saw Airstream was using LT tires because of these ST tire failures. So I switched to LT tires and haven’t had a problem since. Some here will argue the LT tires are not made for trailers. If the LT is at the end of the size then yes it it. The LT tires are made better, tested to a higher standard and hold up longer. Speed ratings are an indication of tire toughness. It stays together better and deals with heat better. Just my experience.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Yes P and LT tires have to pass "different" DOT standards. If by "Higher" phillyg meant more difficult and testing more features philly is correct.
P & LT tires had their testing upgraded in 2002 while ST are still tested to 1970 test standards.
There are no standard tests that would address "tandem" axle application for ST tires.
Yes ST tires are only approved for trailer application, might that be because if you are putting tires on a vehicle carrying passengers you want "better" quality? It is possible that there are some ST type tires capable of passing the LT tire tests but I haven't seen anyone making that claim yet.

Folks are misled if they overlook high-quality ST tires in reliance on the isolated statement: “LT tires are held to higher standards than ST tires.”

Either from 2002 or 1970, minimum legal standards mean little if we demand tires built to modern state-of-the-art design. Who among us recommends buying the legal minimum?

Good manufacturers exceed legal minimums for both LT and ST. I expect "better" 5er tires based on an excellent manufacturer using standards exceeding legal minimums. I'm not sure minimum legal requirements for LT tires translate into "better" tires for my 5er, because I do not buy to legal minimums.

If we only bought minimum legal standard tires, then an LT might well be better on a lighter trailer, but only if it could handle the load.

On my 15,000 LB 5er, I use and recommend Sailun Commercial Truck Tires S637T size ST235/85R16 rated 4,400 LB ($156.72 today @Simple Tire). Same size Sailun LT: $188.96 rated 3,085 LB. With Sailun ST I get 5,220 LB more capacity and save $144.96 + tax over LT.

Should I switch to LTs because “LT tires are held to higher standards”?

[hotrod4448]

Originally Posted by old40ford

X2

X3 LOL

[garywilson]

Entertainment.
I had a spare trailer tire, never on the ground, that was mounted on the utility trailer's tongue with full sun exposure in Texas weather. I made sure it stayed properly inflated.
After a couple of years, the tread was severely cracked and a bubble started growing on the sidewall.
Another year and fabric was showing.
It finally blew after 4-5 years.
The tires on the ground that were 'protected' by shade still looked new. All were the same age and brand.
Tire cancer?

[mixerman]

Originally Posted by comfun1

Over my many years of camping I have had six or eight tire failures and they have always been on a trailer, never a tow vehicle. The failures have occurred on different brands and different aged tires. Always the same thing, by the time I discover it there is nothing left of the tire. I always check tire pressure before a trip. I have had two failures with TPMS. I know the TPMS does not guard against sudden loss. When I replace a set of tires I always move up on weight range and as well as I can recall I have not had any of these upgraded tires fail.

Why is it always my trailer tires that fail and never the tow vehicle? Has anyone else had this experience? Just curious.

On the post following yours Robo44 posts a web site. One of the comments following the article was of interest to me and I think I may use his suggestion if and when the new set of radial trailer tires we just purchased for our new 5th wheel wear out. He said he was blowing out a couple of special trailer tires every year until he decided to start using LT truck tires on it. He said he hasn't had a blow out in 8 years, so this is something I might do.

[mixerman]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

Don’t be fooled. TV tires also fail. If not abused or worn, they can fail from age alone, with most of the tread left. I prefer Michelin to all other tires for my F250, but they DO fail from age. Be very attentive to any tires over 5 years old, especially Michelin. At that age, they can start to delaminate no matter how lightly loaded. I never wear out my F250 tires. They age out and fail first every time.

Funny you should mention being attentive to any tires over 5 years old. I've used tires 15 years old on vehicles and trailers and have never had a blow out. But then I keep our vehicles out of the weather most of the time and I think that has a lot to do with it. Sun and inclimate weather is rough on tires. Plus I don't drive fast either. Higher speeds on a hot day is hard on tires too.

[mixerman]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

P and LT tires are held to DIFFERENT standards than ST tires, NOT "higher."

Long haul 18-Wheelers don't use P or LT tires.

For an RV example, the Sailun ST235/80R16 is rated 4,080 pounds each. Most LT tires would fail quickly under a 4,080 load, so it's wrong to say LT tires are held to "higher" standards than ST tires without critical limitations.

ST tires are solely for trailers. Some LT tires are acceptable for use on trailers, but it may not be easy to verify whether they meet dual axle stress requirements.

I have not found any LT tire rated for 4,000 lb or higher, and I'd appreciate anyone calling one to my attention.

Most campers don't need a tire that needs to be rated for 4000lbs. For instance, the new 5th wheel we just bought which is 29 feet long only weighs 8500lbs so each tire only needs to carry around 2000 lbs even when the camper is loaded. That's a D rated tire but ours came with E's. They're tires made in China so I put them on a utility trailer which had P tires on it and bought some ST radial tires for the new camper, E rated even though I don't need E rated tires for it. And I'm one of those guys like the other two who have posted here. I've never had a blow out on a trailer that I can remember. We had a boat trailer which had springs that were too light for the boat and broke a set of springs in a construction zone once but noticed the tire smoking right away as the fender came down on the tire. It took out the middle row of the tread so I used that tire for a spare after that. The tire was new so I figured since it didn't hurt the tire other than the middle tread missing, it would be fine for a spare.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by mixerman

Funny you should mention being attentive to any tires over 5 years old. I've used tires 15 years old on vehicles and trailers and have never had a blow out. But then I keep our vehicles out of the weather most of the time and I think that has a lot to do with it. Sun and inclimate weather is rough on tires. Plus I don't drive fast either. Higher speeds on a hot day is hard on tires too.

Good points well taken, thank you.

All of my age-related failures were were in Florida, where road temperatures are quite high and some high speed driving did occur. Temperature does take a toll and accelerate aging.

Almost all of my age-related failures (tires not worn out or abused) were Michelin LT tires on my F250 and old Ford Explorer. It's worth noting that all of my age-related failures were while NOT towing and NOT heavily loaded. They all gave some warning before complete failure, but in some cases not much.

Only one of my age-related failures was a blowout, but they were all very sudden and severe. The blowout was on the Explorer and happened because I pressed on a little too far after the problem was apparent. Bad decision--there was some trim damage. On the F250, I always changed before blowout. However, one blew out while in the under-bed tire-carrier the next day after it had been changed on the road. That was weird! I didn't figure out the source of the explosion until taking it down to install the new tire.

My main point was that although trailer tires may be more prone to pre-mature failure, don't overlook the TV tires, especially if you have any over 5 years old. I have had many tires last more than 5 years, but I've decided it's not worth pressing tires much past 5 years for my heavy towing.

EDIT--I'm not dissing the Michelins. I still buy them and recommend them. Their tread lasts long enough that age may become an issue when other tires would be worn out.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by mixerman

Most campers don't need a tire that needs to be rated for 4000lbs. For instance, the new 5th wheel we just bought which is 29 feet long only weighs 8500lbs so each tire only needs to carry around 2000 lbs even when the camper is loaded. That's a D rated tire but ours came with E's. They're tires made in China so I put them on a utility trailer which had P tires on it and bought some ST radial tires for the new camper, E rated even though I don't need E rated tires for it. And I'm one of those guys like the other two who have posted here. I've never had a blow out on a trailer that I can remember. We had a boat trailer which had springs that were too light for the boat and broke a set of springs in a construction zone once but noticed the tire smoking right away as the fender came down on the tire. It took out the middle row of the tread so I used that tire for a spare after that. The tire was new so I figured since it didn't hurt the tire other than the middle tread missing, it would be fine for a spare.

Agreed most RV trailers don't call for 4,000 lb rated tires (Load Range "G"), and some would not benefit from having them. A lot of heavier 5ers do benefit. Forest River did not spec LR "G" tires for my 15,000 GVWR 5er, but I prefer a LOT of safety margin for heavy loads, and LR "G" are all that I will use. Mine are actually rated 4,400lb. The 4,080 lb rating mentioned in my quote was mistakenly lifted from an adjacent similar tire in the Sailun Commercial Truck Tire lineup.

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by mixerman

Most campers don't need a tire that needs to be rated for 4000lbs. For instance, the new 5th wheel we just bought which is 29 feet long only weighs 8500lbs so each tire only needs to carry around 2000 lbs even when the camper is loaded. That's a D rated tire but ours came with E's. They're tires made in China so I put them on a utility trailer which had P tires on it and bought some ST radial tires for the new camper, E rated even though I don't need E rated tires for it. And I'm one of those guys like the other two who have posted here. I've never had a blow out on a trailer that I can remember. We had a boat trailer which had springs that were too light for the boat and broke a set of springs in a construction zone once but noticed the tire smoking right away as the fender came down on the tire. It took out the middle row of the tread so I used that tire for a spare after that. The tire was new so I figured since it didn't hurt the tire other than the middle tread missing, it would be fine for a spare.

The example provided is static weight. Those weight loads constantly change when the TT is in motion. For instance, when swerving or taking a curve, a greater percentage of weight transfers to the outside tires. Weight shift can be subtle or severe. When making tight turns forward/ rearward, the sidewalls and treads are taking severe punishment. Curbs can be death to a tire. There are a lot of variables to consider. Upgrading, as suggested, to higher specs is prudent.