Why do tire makers mould the max PSI in such small print on the sidewall?

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

I am talking about what you said in post 58 and before, you said in the owner decided to upgrade his tires that he can do the recommending of the pressure for that trailer. Now you are avoiding that question.

You're not picking it up as we go. It's a long winded explanation to explain how to go from OE tires to plus sized tires.

When a size designation has been maintained, the load inflation chart has been maintained. For RV trailers the primary reason for adding a load range is to gain load capacity reserves. When I mentioned increasing inflation pressures when going from a LRD to a LRE I indicated it would be prudent for the owner to make a note in the trailer owner's manual showing how far the inflation pressure was increased. The situation does not warrant such action because the trailer's certification label inflation pressures are still valid in that situation.

When the size designation for the OE tires is no longer valid because of another size designated tire being used as a replacement, the installer must - sort of - start from scratch. The first step is to qualify the replacement as being able to fit into the wheel well without any obstructions. Then there is the size. Will the replacement have enough clearance when used in a tandem fitment? Do the OE wheels have the necessary PSI rating for the replacements? Make sure to install new valve stems - steel recommended - having a PSI rating for any increase in inflation pressures. Time to check it out. First stop, vehicle certification label. Find the designated size of the OE tires and the recommended cold inflation pressures used in them. Find the appropriate load inflation chart for the OE tires and extract the load capacity they are providing at the recommended cold inflation pressures on the placard. That load capacity must be matched or exceeded with the replacement tires. Now it's time to use a load inflation chart for the replacement tires. Find a load that will provide a sufficient amount of load capacity reserves from the replacements - ball park - 10-12% above maximum GAWR load. Determine the recommended cold inflation pressure to achieve that goal. Now it's time to take care of the paperwork. Use an axillary tire placard to identify the designated size of the replacement tires and your recommended cold inflation figures. Write it all on the axillary placard and place it next to the original placard. Make the same notations in the vehicle owner's manual.

A well trained, savvy tire installer, will ensure all of those hurdles are cleared.

Tires can withstand lots of extra inflation pressures. They don't last long when they are carrying more load than they are inflated to carry.

[Teetime]

Originally Posted by Airdale

That inflation pressure you're referring to is not a recommendation. It's a fact, based on the information provided to the vehicle manufacturer from the tire manufacturer in the tire's load inflation chart/table.

Lighten up man...The original post by JohnD10 was about FONT SIZE AND BEING ABLE TO READ IT!

Why don't Airdale and Aircommuter take their technical differences to another thread!

[aircommuter]

He is having trouble with what he said about the owner who upgraded his tires to makes changes on the recommended pressure, which becomes an opinion like I said. I have been in the automotive business over 50 years and he thinks he is educating me. But he is caught up in his statements that have nothin to do with size of the font which the fault of government people which he thinks know everything.

[wabakami]

With all the Hot Air between the two "Airs" (Airdale and Aircommuter) can we say we've beaten the horse to death!!! and close the post?



[Sorry Teetime it was too good a chance to pass up!]

Geoff
.

[KFX450RXC]

Let's face it. We're all getting older and the eyesight is slowly getting worse. I'm 52. Its amazing how much my eyes have gone downhill over the last five years. Farsightedness is fine. Nearsightedness is terrible. Reading small print is really tough. I find that if I have a bright light, it helps a lot.

In fact, my eyes went bad another level on the chart since this thread began.

[wabakami]

Originally Posted by KFX450RXC

In fact, my eyes went bad another level on the chart since this thread began.

Love it KFX.



As to your first para, yes I carry a pocket flashlight to help read the fine print on labels! I find the worst though is the description on DVD cases, how much smaller can they make the print?


Geoff
.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Teetime

Lighten up man...The original post by JohnD10 was about FONT SIZE AND BEING ABLE TO READ IT!

Why don't Airdale and Aircommuter take their technical differences to another thread!

I've posted at least three posts in reference to the OP post.

This is a discussion forum. When the discussion goes elsewhere there is nothing wrong with going with it.

When I see posts way out of the field it prompts me to respond. This is a two dimensional medium, forthrightness is often mistaken for harshness. My intent is to post information that helps the membership. If it's an opinion I'll say so. If its factual and I have valid references to support it, I'll stand on the references. My information about tires comes from the governing body and the tire industry. Most of my referenced information comes from the FMVSS standards, USTMA standards, NHTSA regulations, vehicle owner's manuals and individual RV specifications. Of course I have more than 20 years RV trailering experience that has amassed more than 200,000 miles to all the lower 48 and 5 CDN Provinces. Our fulltime Keystone 5er went for 120,000 miles and used about 28-30 tires along the way, mostly normal replacements. I've been seriously researching RV trailer tires for about 15 years. One of my greatest internet hobbies. Taking pictures and writing blogs is second. Here are a few examples.

100_1929 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
100_1926 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
Storage_-_2010_2_ - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
Desert_Storm_Tire - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
SD_Ellsworth_AFB_RV_Park_-_1 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
Laughlin_AFB_TX_1 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
HancesJax22 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery
Saguaro_NP_AZ5 - iRV2.com RV Photo Gallery

[Scrapper]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

The Carlisle tire that was posted is indicative of all tires from that manufacturer.

Has anyone else noticed the tires referred to in post #31 are farm equipment tires, rated for non-highway use, no more than 56psi and a speed of 30mph?

[Tireman9]

As an actual tire engineer, one of my responsibilities was to specify what "stamping" or labeling to use. Most tire companies have a few in-house standards. Some of the standards are based on the MINIMUM font size as specified by DOT.


There is a lot of stuff that sales and legal want on the tire sidewall so sometimes space is a consideration. Also, big fancy lettering can sometimes not mold out fully and if that happens the tire is scrap.
There is also some confusion about that "Maximum" means when we are talking about tire inflation.

If you read all your tires (Passenger, LT, and ST) you will see the wording varies.


Technically what is meant is there is a MINIMUM inflation necessary to support the MAXIMUM load. BUT DOT felt that using wording like that would confuse the owner.

Here is one of my blog posts on Maximum Inflation with pictures.


I also have a number of blog posts on MINIMUM inflation - Including one on "When is the Minimum inflation the Maximum inflation.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by aircommuter

Even if it was a car or truck, the posted pressures are for best ride and will not give best mileage or handling.

That is no longer the case. Hasn't been since he late 70's/ early 80's.

Manufacturers are required to post the proper pressure for load.

Ask Ford what happens when you don't. Ford Explorer's had labels on the pillar showing a lower pressure than what Firestone recommended for the OE tire. After all the tire failures and recall, Ford mailed to all registered owners of affected Explorers a new label that had the proper pressure stated. I owned one that I purchased used. Found my address from DMV records. New pressure was 15% higher than the original.

Of course Firestone blamed Ford and vice-versa. To top it all off the vehicle owners were usually driving well over the speed limit when their tires failed.

A convergence of errors ending up with fatalities.

[Teetime]

Originally Posted by KFX450RXC

Let's face it. We're all getting older and the eyesight is slowly getting worse. I'm 52. Its amazing how much my eyes have gone downhill over the last five years. Farsightedness is fine. Nearsightedness is terrible. Reading small print is really tough. I find that if I have a bright light, it helps a lot.

In fact, my eyes went bad another level on the chart since this thread began.

I'd reply if I could find my bifocals and read this

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Airdale

That inflation pressure you're referring to is not a recommendation. It's a fact, based on the information provided to the vehicle manufacturer from the tire manufacturer in the tire's load inflation chart/table.

Airdale...

You are just not getting it...

Here...I'll show you what I started this topic about::


WE WANT THE MAX PRESSURE MOULDED IN BIG ENOUGH LETTERS ON THE SIDEWALL SO WE CAN READ THEM WITHOUT A MICROSCOPE!

LIKE THIS!


Hope that makes it clear...even I can read that...

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Airdale...

You are just not getting it...

Here...I'll show you what I started this topic about::


WE WANT THE MAX PRESSURE MOULDED IN BIG ENOUGH LETTERS ON THE SIDEWALL SO WE CAN READ THEM WITHOUT A MICROSCOPE!

LIKE THIS!


Hope that makes it clear...even I can read that...

You do realize that if tire makers were forced to make all the required markings large enough to be read as you suggest, tires would all be the size of "Semi tires".

Simple solution. Use your smart phone to take a picture of the pressure printed on the tire. Then use thumb and fore finger to enlarge to a size you can read. This also works for other hard to read labels you need to get info from. I do it to get serial numbers from labels on the back of appliances, etc. Also to get the password from my Wireless Router without having to pull it out of its installed location.

These new phones are good for a lot more than just answering telemarketer's calls

BTW, just read the pressure once then print it on the trim panel above the tire with a sharpie. A simple "TP=XX psi" just like many commercial and military vehicles. No need to remember or go look it up.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

You do realize that if tire makers were forced to make all the required markings large enough to be read as you suggest, tires would all be the size of "Semi tires".

Simple solution. Use your smart phone to take a picture of the pressure printed on the tire. Then use thumb and fore finger to enlarge to a size you can read. This also works for other hard to read labels you need to get info from. I do it to get serial numbers from labels on the back of appliances, etc. Also to get the password from my Wireless Router without having to pull it out of its installed location.

These new phones are good for a lot more than just answering telemarketer's calls

BTW, just read the pressure once then print it on the trim panel above the tire with a sharpie. A simple "TP=XX psi" just like many commercial and military vehicles. No need to remember or go look it up.

Just one piece of info is all I'm talking about...

And that other post about "there is only enough room on the side of the tire for so much print" and "if it's not molded right it is trashed"...

They sure have enough room to plaster their name all over the side of the tire...there sure must be enough room somewhere for two numbers in large print!

By the by...I know what my tires hold...but how about helping out a fellow camper in an RV park or along the side of the road?

Knowing my max PSI doesn't help me help them very much.

And it was just such a situation that made me start this topic thread...

[Teetime]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Airdale...

You are just not getting it...

Here...I'll show you what I started this topic about::


WE WANT THE MAX PRESSURE MOULDED IN BIG ENOUGH LETTERS ON THE SIDEWALL SO WE CAN READ THEM WITHOUT A MICROSCOPE!

LIKE THIS!


Hope that makes it clear...even I can read that...

Now I can see that!

I hope Goodyear, Firestone, Uniroyal, etc. can!

Thank you JohnD10

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Airdale

That inflation pressure you're referring to is not a recommendation. It's a fact, based on the information provided to the vehicle manufacturer from the tire manufacturer in the tire's load inflation chart/table.

The tire manufacturer provides tire inflation pressure information. For original equipment tires, the vehicle manufacturer SETS the recommended cold inflation pressures appropriate for the vehicle according to the information provided in the inflation charts. For tire inflation, the word recommend, in interpretations provided by NHTSA, means CORRECT.

Any tire that has a maximum load on its sidewall, put there by its manufacturer is telling you the tire manufacturer will not support any load above that. Also on the tire is the maximum permissible cold inflation pressure needed for the tire to provide its maximum load. It's not a recommendation, it's a fact. (The bottom line is, on many tires, even though there is a PSI value on the tire needed for it to provide its maximum load capacity the PSI value does nor reflect the tires ability to be inflated higher). It's a discussion no one wants to get into because of its complications. The following reference refers. Maxxis and TowMAx have similar bulletins. By researching FMVSS you will find that LT tires have a +10 PSI leeway above sidewall max.

https://www.tirerack.com/images/tire...plications.pdf

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Airdale...

You are just not getting it...

Here...I'll show you what I started this topic about::


WE WANT THE MAX PRESSURE MOULDED IN BIG ENOUGH LETTERS ON THE SIDEWALL SO WE CAN READ THEM WITHOUT A MICROSCOPE!

LIKE THIS!


Hope that makes it clear...even I can read that...

I do not understand all the focus on the max pressure when almost every failure I have ever inspected was due to a lower pressure than what the tire needed.


As I previously pointed out the pressure number molded on the tire sidewall is the pressure needed to support the maximum load.
You should be MUCH more concerned with the MINIMUM cold inflation pressure. This number doesn't change.
A little or large label on the fender showing the MINIMUM inflation is what you really need if you can't remember the number you use every time you set your tire pressure. Of course, if you had a TPMS and learned how to set its warning level you would only need to set your system once.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Airdale

The tire manufacturer provides tire inflation pressure information. For original equipment tires, the vehicle manufacturer SETS the recommended cold inflation pressures appropriate for the vehicle according to the information provided in the inflation charts. For tire inflation, the word recommend, in interpretations provided by NHTSA, means CORRECT.

Any tire that has a maximum load on its sidewall, put there by its manufacturer is telling you the tire manufacturer will not support any load above that. Also on the tire is the maximum permissible cold inflation pressure needed for the tire to provide its maximum load. It's not a recommendation, it's a fact.

Well sort of.
In reality

Also on the tire is the MINIMUM permissible cold inflation pressure needed for the tire to provide its maximum load.



The numbers in the load inflation tables are the MINIMUM inflation needed to support the specific stated load. With the stated inflation you can support that load and all the lower load numbers too. That's the proper way to read the chart.




Why is this concept so hard to understand?


Guess I need another blog post on Mininumvs Maximum. But maybe people will not read that post either.


As the saying goes... You can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

I do not understand all the focus on the max pressure when almost every failure I have ever inspected was due to a lower pressure than what the tire needed.

Because THAT is what most people with RV trailers use to pressure their trailer tires to!

None of us weigh each tire every time we roll so that we can faniggle our trailer tire pressure to be exact for the daily drive.

Heck, if we did that we wouldn't be able to even eat a sandwich out of our loaded food without re-weighing and resetting air in our tires.

Or we wouldn't be able to run the fridge on propane as, with your theory, we'd have to reweigh and reset our pressure every 25 miles!

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Well sort of.
In reality

Also on the tire is the MINIMUM permissible cold inflation pressure needed for the tire to provide its maximum load.



The numbers in the load inflation tables are the MINIMUM inflation needed to support the specific stated load. With the stated inflation you can support that load and all the lower load numbers too. That's the proper way to read the chart.




Why is this concept so hard to understand?


Guess I need another blog post on Mininumvs Maximum. But maybe people will not read that post either.


As the saying goes... You can lead the horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Look how the key words are used.