Why tires fail ?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

Okay thanks I figured you would know, a lot of mis info on the internet. Also you asked what my TST system was at when I had my blow out. I didn't have TST then I never even knew about them 4 years ago. I just checked every morning that I was at 50 lbs PSI as rated. I bought them after from the advice of OC and reading your blog. Saved my bacon last trip, had a leak, without that warning I'm sure I would have shredded that tire to. I'm still a little confused about the correct PSI. I have switched to the "D" rated at 65 PSI from the "C" rated 50 PSI. To me if I run those tires at 50 PSI which is enough for my load, it is really 15 lbs from the CRP of the sidewall, isn't that being under inflated for the tire not the load. This has been debated many times on this forum. So I inflate to the sidewall 65 Lbs. Don't mean to drive you crazy...

I suggest the following for inflation on TT (Motorhomes are different)

1. Know the actual load on each tire from scale reading. If you can't get individual tire loads then assume the total for 2 axles is split 47/53% between the 2 axles and that the heavier end of the unidentified heavy axle is supporting 53% of that axle's load.
2. Trailers should have at least a 15% load cushion according to the tables. If the pressure needed for that cushion bumps you to the next Load Range then go up in Load Range.
3. Due to the special nature of the suspension design of TT that generated high Interply Shear you can lower this shear force by running the inflation molded on the tire sidewall as your Cold Inflation Pressure. Google "Interply Shear tires" to learn more on that topic.

So in your case Doc. You have already bumped the laod capacity so should be OK. I would suggest you run 65 psi cold. This will lower the chance of having a Tread Separation due to Interply Shear. All tires on an axle or for tandem axles should run the same pressure.

RE TPMS
I would set the Low pressure warning to the inflation needed to support the measured or calculated heaviest loaded tire.
The "TPMS base pressure" should be 10% above that level.
I would not worry about changing the High Temp warning from the factory 158F.
The high pressure would be ok if set to 25% above the tire sidewall pressure or 25% above the CIP

Hope this clear.

[MtBiker]

Originally Posted by Garrette

Had this happen yesterday. Wondering if it is actual tire failure due to low pressure.
Stats. Right inner, Sunseeker
Speed 55. Checked before leaving CG
Attachment 111638Attachment 111639Attachment 111640

Any thoughts?

How old is that tire? What is the manufacture date stamped on the sidewall?
How many miles on it?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Garrette

Had this happen yesterday. Wondering if it is actual tire failure due to low pressure.
Stats. Right inner, Sunseeker
Speed 55. Checked before leaving CG
Attachment 111638Attachment 111639Attachment 111640

Any thoughts?

Would really need to see the tire close-up as it is presenting two different conditions. 1. being the separation of tread and belts off the body. This is usually from long term high load slightly low inflation.
2 is the area with the broken body cord which looks like Run Low Flex Failure.

Does the tire sidewall say the body id Polyester or does it say Rayon or Aramid?
If you feel the ends of the broken body cords do you find any individual cords to be hard or are they all soft and fuzzy?

[Garrette]

I have already had the tire replaced. The tire was 3 years old. I checked the date codes during the PDI. A while back there was a recall on the Michelin tires. I checked the code for the recall but my tires were not part of the recall. Tires have 13567miles. Had correct tire pressure before leaving campground. 80 on back, 75 on front. Passed thru one town about 25 miles out and back to 55mph, felt a very slight vibration. I assumed it was the road. Slowed to 50mph mostly due to heavy beach traffic. 40 mile later BOOM.
I will go by tire shop and see if they still have it. I asked for the mating tire to be dismounted and inspected. Was told that that tire looked fine. No evidence of stress from an inside and outside inspection.
TPMS and extenders are on order. Nothing like closing the gate after the cows are out.



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[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Garrette

I have already had the tire replaced. The tire was 3 years old. I checked the date codes during the PDI. A while back there was a recall on the Michelin tires. I checked the code for the recall but my tires were not part of the recall. Tires have 13567miles. Had correct tire pressure before leaving campground. 80 on back, 75 on front. Passed thru one town about 25 miles out and back to 55mph, felt a very slight vibration. I assumed it was the road. Slowed to 50mph mostly due to heavy beach traffic. 40 mile later BOOM.
I will go by tire shop and see if they still have it. I asked for the mating tire to be dismounted and inspected. Was told that that tire looked fine. No evidence of stress from an inside and outside inspection.
TPMS and extenders are on order. Nothing like closing the gate after the cows are out.
Sent from my iPad using Forest River Forums

Sorry to hear about your Run Low Flex failure. By any chance did you capture a picture?

Having mate inspected was good thing to do

[dashsul]

I went on a trip to the Northern border 1,900 one way. On the way back I noticed steel threads coming out of the top side of the front 2 tires. Went another 1,600 more miles later the tire lost air slowly flattening at the last camp site. I first thought cheap tires, then I thought air pressure to high set at 50psi cold, then I though the distribution hitch needed to come up a notch because the back two were fine. Anybody have a the probable reason?

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by dashsul

I went on a trip to the Northern border 1,900 one way. On the way back I noticed steel threads coming out of the top side of the front 2 tires. Went another 1,600 more miles later the tire lost air slowly flattening at the last camp site. I first thought cheap tires, then I thought air pressure to high set at 50psi cold, then I though the distribution hitch needed to come up a notch because the back two were fine. Anybody have a the probable reason?

I have seen this condition before.
Steel filaments coming out of tire are sign of factory defect. You need to

1. Closely inspect each tire
2. Record the DOT serials so you can file a complaint on each tire
3 capture close up photo of filaments from each tire
4. take tires to dealer for immediate replacement
5. file a complaint for each defective tire as you cannot depend on the tire dealer following the defect reporting requirements
6. Post pictures to help educate others.
7. In the complaint with NHTSA you can tell them just what you posted above in first 3 sentences and let them know you have pictures. If the dealer does not replace for free provide the name & address od the dealer.
8 Post the tire size, Load Range, name and full DOT serial here so others can inspect their tires

I will look up name and location of the tire plant and post here.

Note the specific defect is improper "belt skim rubber" and/or treatment of the steel cord resulting in a loss of adhesion. Just as you have seen filaments on the outside the slow leak confirms there are filaments piercing the inside of the tire too,

If all tires have identical DOT they would most likely all have the same defect. This is definitely a condition that warrants a recall and replacement of all affected tires.


PM me if you have any questions or need any help.

[Super 8]

Blew a Trail Express Power Towing 225/75R/15 Load Range D this past weekend on my 2014 Coachman 320BHDS. Poor pic but it is in the spare location. It made a loud blast and I pulled over instantly. I just filled the tires to their recommended tire pressure of 65 psi before I left. Tires have max of 2500 miles on them.

[Tireman9]

Super8
That is a tread separation. Should be easier to get adjusted as belt separation can be more easily traced to design or mfg issue with the belt rubber.

They were "ST" type Yes?
Can you post the DOT S/N so we can identify the plant that made the tires?

You should file a complaint with NHTSA even if they give you another tire as we cannot depend on the dealer to file the complaint.

[Super 8]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Super8
That is a tread separation. Should be easier to get adjusted as belt separation can be more easily traced to design or mfg issue with the belt rubber.

They were "ST" type Yes?
Can you post the DOT S/N so we can identify the plant that made the tires?

You should file a complaint with NHTSA even if they give you another tire as we cannot depend on the dealer to file the complaint.

ST, Yes
1KMM16A
Date of MFG 1113
Dealer said he never had my trailer model fail a tire.
Filed a complaint by filling out the camper info this morning but have not heard anything back yet.
That site does not list Trail express power towing tires as an option in their tire listing.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by Super 8

ST, Yes
1KMM16A
Date of MFG 1113
Dealer said he never had my trailer model fail a tire.
Filed a complaint by filling out the camper info this morning but have not heard anything back yet.
That site does not list Trail express power towing tires as an option in their tire listing.

The fact that the dealer claims as not remembering a tire failure is not surprising as most RV owners don't bother to complain to dealer or NHTSA.
RE NHTSA Yes they do not have every tire name in the drop down list. Many tire names are new inventions with dozens sprouting up each year. BUT that is why having the full DOT serial is so important. It will take a few days or a week for NHTSA to respond to your complaint. All you will get initially is a complaint ref number. Remember they are getting thousands of complaints every day on all kinds of things such as TPMS, Car seats, emission failures air bag problems etc.

Did the dealer refuse to take any action on your tire failure? Just not knowing of previous tire failure is no excuse. You might check the phone book for local General tire dealer and tell them you have a tire made by General at the KY plant that failed and see what they say.

[Super 8]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

Did the dealer refuse to take any action on your tire failure? Just not knowing of previous tire failure is no excuse. You might check the phone book for local General tire dealer and tell them you have a tire made by General at the KY plant that failed and see what they say.

No action taken.
Only offered to order parts I needed to fix the damage I have to repair.

[Tireman9]

Anyone filing a complaint with NHTSA needs to include the cost of damage to the RV in their report. I would also include the name of the tire dealer or RV dealer and identify if they were helpful in resolving the tire failure issue or if they refused to take any responsibility for the tire failure and provide a replacement and any compensation for costs associated with the failure.

After filing the complaint with NHTSA you should receive an email with the Complaint #. I would forward that email to the tire dealer, RV dealer and RV company CEO if the tire was the OE tire advising them that they have been named in your report to NHTSA as being helpful or not.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by Super 8

That site does not list Trail express power towing tires as an option in their tire listing.

Look under the name "Voma Tire Corp.." There are a total of 7 complaints on the NHTSA complaint files for Trail Express tires.

"ITG Voma is a joint venture of China’s Xiamen ITG Group Corp. and VOMA Tire Corp., a full supply chain service provider focusing on providing comprehensive services for tire distributors." (Rubber & Plastics news).

[Super 8]

Originally Posted by Tireman9

The fact that the dealer claims as not remembering a tire failure is not surprising as most RV owners don't bother to complain to dealer or NHTSA.
RE NHTSA Yes they do not have every tire name in the drop down list. Many tire names are new inventions with dozens sprouting up each year. BUT that is why having the full DOT serial is so important. It will take a few days or a week for NHTSA to respond to your complaint. All you will get initially is a complaint ref number. Remember they are getting thousands of complaints every day on all kinds of things such as TPMS, Car seats, emission failures air bag problems etc.

I know there has been a Holiday in the mix etc. but it has been 10 calendar days and still no response.
I went ahead and purchased 5 new load range E tires and also had them balanced.

[dbarr]

So what is causing this type of damage? At first I thought maybe I hit something but to get 2 with the same identical damage I think not. There aren't any obstructions above the tire and more than enough room to the floor above. No flat spot across the width so I'm pretty sure I didn't lock the brakes.

The first time was last August and about 12000 miles.

The second one was last week and about 17000 miles.

Neither lost any pressure and were caught during tire checks every 2 hours.

Could this be the start of throwing the tread? They are Trail Express manufacture 5212 so they would've been changed out this year anyway.

[B and B]

I am surprised you got that many miles out of them. Most people replace OEM ties with higher load range and better quality.

[dbarr]

Originally Posted by B and B

I am surprised you got that many miles out of them. Most people replace OEM ties with higher load range and better quality.

I never do. This being the heaviest at only 4800lbs on the axles I think I'll be fine.

Only problems with past trailers was on a 06 surveyor that I bought used in 11 with the original tires. And they didn't start giving me problems until '12 and '13.

[Airdale]

Originally Posted by dbarr

So what is causing this type of damage? At first I thought maybe I hit something but to get 2 with the same identical damage I think not. There aren't any obstructions above the tire and more than enough room to the floor above. No flat spot across the width so I'm pretty sure I didn't lock the brakes.

The first time was last August and about 12000 miles.

The second one was last week and about 17000 miles.

Neither lost any pressure and were caught during tire checks every 2 hours.

Could this be the start of throwing the tread? They are Trail Express manufacture 5212 so they would've been changed out this year anyway.

Looks like it's (sometimes) hitting something in the wheelwell.

[Tireman9]

Originally Posted by dbarr

So what is causing this type of damage? At first I thought maybe I hit something but to get 2 with the same identical damage I think not. There aren't any obstructions above the tire and more than enough room to the floor above. No flat spot across the width so I'm pretty sure I didn't lock the brakes.

The first time was last August and about 12000 miles.

The second one was last week and about 17000 miles.

Neither lost any pressure and were caught during tire checks every 2 hours.

Could this be the start of throwing the tread? They are Trail Express manufacture 5212 so they would've been changed out this year anyway.

Looks like localized separation of tread off belts. Would need to probe to be sure. I would consider this a factory workmanship issue. Not sure what warranty is but you are at 3-1/2 years. get thee to tire dealer ASAP.

What is the DOT serial of the tires?