Anyone pulling a large Cardinal with newer Ford Super Duty?

[Homebrew]

We have 12 feet hanging out behind our axels and run into many parks with hills that bend our license plate. Your correct you need to be carful. But we do our best to only fuel up on the interstate/ highway fuel stations while towing. Also always fill up before hooking up.

For years with our old RV we put the bikes inside on the converted booth dinette. Laid plastic on the cushions and strapped the bikes together.

Now we have a toy hauler and have foldable E bikes. We fold them in 50 gallon totes and haul the in the back seat of the truck since there is not much room in the garage area of the toy hauler.

Nice RV , good luck !

[NJBreeze]

You are correct my Cedar Creek is 41' and it has a huge overhang and a bike hitch and there are times it will rub. IT IS UNAVOIDABLE.

If I may. There might be larger things to be concerned about.

That gas engine pulling that big of a trailer will just be screaming away and myself I couldn't stand that. That gas engine has half the torque as a diesel so good luck with that in the hills. 14K and 15K lbs is a whole other animal then say 12K lbs which is the weight of my previous Cedar Creek Silverback. I got rid of my 2017 diesel Chevy with 44K miles on it and was given $49K for the trade. There is huge residual value in diesels!!! Gas trucks are a dime a dozen used.

That 41' is heavy and it will push you going around turns and with your short bed it will push you more. I honestly think you should be rethinking the truck. Envision going down a steep highway which has some tigher turns. That trailer wants to go straight and you will feel it.

I don't know about that Tremor suspension but the Chevy trucks have always been stiffer then Ford just by looking at them both go down the highway. My friends with Fords agree!! My truck drops 2 1/2 inches and you need about 1 3/4" on a Chevy to get you into the overload springs. That you have seen others pulling big with a Tremor doesn't say a lot other then they choose to try and thread the needle.

Honestly a off road equipped 1 ton truck is a joke. I know, mine is a 1 Ton with Chevy's Z71 package. It has Rancho shocks and some added skid plates but no lift yet the regular suspension. No one ton truck belongs off road per se as the weight of them kills them for anything other than like driving through a field or up some logging road. If Ford softened the suspension to give it more travel for going off road well that is the opposite direction of what is best for towing heavy. The reason there are off road packages for 1 Ton trucks is that there are people who buy them and that is about all.

You will have to strip everything out of that trailer that isn't totally necessary to have even a chance of not going over your GVWR but more importantly your RAWR . Loosing a trailer tire is one thing, loosing a truck tire is another.

I take only like 5 gallons of water which is enough to take bathroom breaks on the road. Maybe 200 lbs of clothes and maybe 200 lbs of food. I have minimal things as it regards tools, a few grills and some chairs.

A dually is best for this type of trailer but is out of the question for me as they are useless to go touring around resorts in. I put my trailer on the CAT scale and was essentially 600-700 lbs under my ratings so I was ok with that also knowing I would have to travel lighter.

I looked at the Anderson hitch as it probably saves me 60 lbs. I considered it right up until the time I saw pictures of some of them collapsed. I never saw a Curt or B&W hitch collapsed. I would say that maybe Anderson hitches could work fine for smaller say 32' lower tier 5th wheels but not for Luxury fifth wheels with 2500+ pin weights. I have a Curt Q25 and I can pull it out of the bed easily. There is no chance of me pulling out the B&W by myself.

I'm trying to be helpful here and I hope I am but looking from the outside it appears to me you just keep on lining up compromise after compromise.

[Homebrew]

X2 on being too large for a gas engine.

[Gsykora]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

We have 12 feet hanging out behind our axels and run into many parks with hills that bend our license plate. Your correct you need to be carful. But we do our best to only fuel up on the interstate/ highway fuel stations while towing. Also always fill up before hooking up.

For years with our old RV we put the bikes inside on the converted booth dinette. Laid plastic on the cushions and strapped the bikes together.

Now we have a toy hauler and have foldable E bikes. We fold them in 50 gallon totes and haul the in the back seat of the truck since there is not much room in the garage area of the toy hauler.

Nice RV , good luck !

You have a toy hauler but cannot get 2 ebikes into the garage?

[Homebrew]

Nope! Not with the can am spyder and two kayaks.
Also the beer cooler!

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Originally Posted by NJBreeze

You are correct my Cedar Creek is 41' and it has a huge overhang and a bike hitch and there are times it will rub. IT IS UNAVOIDABLE.

If I may. There might be larger things to be concerned about.

That gas engine pulling that big of a trailer will just be screaming away and myself I couldn't stand that. That gas engine has half the torque as a diesel so good luck with that in the hills. 14K and 15K lbs is a whole other animal then say 12K lbs which is the weight of my previous Cedar Creek Silverback. I got rid of my 2017 diesel Chevy with 44K miles on it and was given $49K for the trade. There is huge residual value in diesels!!! Gas trucks are a dime a dozen used.

The new Ford 7.3 gas engine (Godzilla) is impressive.

2020 Ford F-250 Godzilla 7.3L V8 Gets Maxed Out on the World's Toughest Test! So, How Did It Do?

A lightly tuned 7.3 Godzilla engine can produce 600 foot pounds of torque. The new Whipple stage 2 supercharger results in 700 horsepower and 750 foot pounds of torque. Ford will soon offer a twin turbo for the 7.3 gas engine. Our 2.7 liter Ford Edge Sport has Garret twin turbo's and produces over 315 hp and 350 ft/lbs of torque.

We will be using the new F-350 for a daily driver approx. 340 days each year, pulling the camper about 25 days each year. It absolutely comes down to compromises. A dually would be great for pulling and yet it would be a miserable daily driver for over 11 months when not towing.

The 7.3 Godzilla replaced the V-10 in 2020. It is not just another gas engine. It is the premier gas engine for super duty applications. Dealers are buying back 2021 F-350's with the gas engine and Tremor package for more than they sold them for and then reselling them for even more profit. They will hold their value, like all trucks.

The diesel argument leans more in favor of the 7.3 gas with ever new change in federal requirements. Diesel fuels now have less lubrication than ever before. You are forced to carry additives to mix with every tank of diesel. You need a catch can to remove the water from the fuel. Diesel engines are much heavier than gas engines and reduce payload by close to 700 pounds. Many diesel owners sell their trucks as soon as their warranties expire, due to massive repair bills. A simple oil change in a diesel will set you back a couple hundred dollars. I owned a 2003 Duramax diesel in a GMC dually. Good for towing heavy, bad for everything else.

That 41' is heavy and it will push you going around turns and with your short bed it will push you more. I honestly think you should be rethinking the truck. Envision going down a steep highway which has some tigher turns. That trailer wants to go straight and you will feel it.

Steep highways are a challenge and made more so by not having an engine break. The current method for the new Ford F-350 gas engines is to use cruise control to help maintain a lower speed on downgrades. The ten speed transmission is very helpful for maintaining speed during descents. I think the new F-350 will weigh in at 7000-8000 pounds with hitch and fuel and cargo.

I don't know about that Tremor suspension but the Chevy trucks have always been stiffer then Ford just by looking at them both go down the highway. My friends with Fords agree!! My truck drops 2 1/2 inches and you need about 1 3/4" on a Chevy to get you into the overload springs. That you have seen others pulling big with a Tremor doesn't say a lot other then they choose to try and thread the needle.

The Tremor package is a compromise on towing. Ford removed the rear swayer and adds longer travel shocks. I'll decide later if I will add a rear sway bar. Once the new F-350 is hooked up to the Cardinal, it will squat and set on the overload springs to stabilize the ride.

Here is a link to a Ford Tremor forum and their Ford Tremor Towing thread;
https://www.fordtremor.com/forums/ford-tremor-towing.5/

Honestly a off road equipped 1 ton truck is a joke. I know, mine is a 1 Ton with Chevy's Z71 package. It has Rancho shocks and some added skid plates but no lift yet the regular suspension. No one ton truck belongs off road per se as the weight of them kills them for anything other than like driving through a field or up some logging road. If Ford softened the suspension to give it more travel for going off road well that is the opposite direction of what is best for towing heavy. The reason there are off road packages for 1 Ton trucks is that there are people who buy them and that is about all.

They are not a joke. It is a serious market for serious people. Obviously, the Ford Raptor is a more serious off-road truck. I mountain bike so we may be hauling bikes to trail heads on Forest Roads, or through sandy washes to get to trails in Arizona. It won't be serious off-roading, but the Tremor package is what we like.

You will have to strip everything out of that trailer that isn't totally necessary to have even a chance of not going over your GVWR but more importantly your RAWR . Loosing a trailer tire is one thing, loosing a truck tire is another.

We are not close to going over weight ratings. We could pull an 18,000lb. trailer and still be under. The truck comes with tire pressure monitoring for both the truck and trailer. We will tow using max tire pressures.

I take only like 5 gallons of water which is enough to take bathroom breaks on the road. Maybe 200 lbs of clothes and maybe 200 lbs of food. I have minimal things as it regards tools, a few grills and some chairs.

As per the Ford towing guide, https://www.fleet.ford.com/content/d...owingGuide.pdf

The F-350 7.3 gas, SRW, Crew Cab, Short Bed, 4.30 rear end, has a GCWR of 27,500lbs. and a max weight carrying of 15,000 pounds. Our Cardinal weighs 14,000 lbs. dry. We should be around 22,500lbs combined, give or take.

A dually is best for this type of trailer but is out of the question for me as they are useless to go touring around resorts in. I put my trailer on the CAT scale and was essentially 600-700 lbs under my ratings so I was ok with that also knowing I would have to travel lighter.

I looked at the Anderson hitch as it probably saves me 60 lbs. I considered it right up until the time I saw pictures of some of them collapsed. I never saw a Curt or B&W hitch collapsed. I would say that maybe Anderson hitches could work fine for smaller say 32' lower tier 5th wheels but not for Luxury fifth wheels with 2500+ pin weights. I have a Curt Q25 and I can pull it out of the bed easily. There is no chance of me pulling out the B&W by myself.

The Anderson hitch has been tested to over 40,000 pounds. It is light and very strong. The pictures you viewed were not a failure of the Anderson hitch, they were pictures taken after a driver rolled his truck and camper and twisted the hitch. None have ever failed. My wife can remove the Anderson Hitch. It weighs less than 40 pounds.

I'm trying to be helpful here and I hope I am but looking from the outside it appears to me you just keep on lining up compromise after compromise.

I thank you for your concerns. I always appreciate comments by concerned fellow campers. I have spent many days and weeks looking over all the variables and all the pluses and minuses of buying a gas engine F-350 and a large and heavy Cardinal trailer. But in the end, we knew we were going to park the camper here on Puget Island, Washington for 2-4 months each year and in Phoenix for 5-6 months each year, and maybe take it to Nebraska to park it for a couple months. So it will be stationary most of the year and the truck will be mostly a daily driver. So compromises had to be made. I hated driving my GMC dually on Forest Roads, or almost anywhere else. This F-350 with the Tremor package will be a great daily driver. It has adequate towing capacity and torque. I have the option of tuning the Godzilla motor and adding lots more torque.

My main concern at this point is where to put the bikes. I've been viewing pictures of front receiver bike mounts this morning and despite the clean installs, the bikes do block your site lines. I'm undecided at this point and may call Lippert to discuss how we can do a high receiver mount on the back of the Cardinal.

Here is a pic of a front receiver mount;

https://torkliftcentral.com/ford-fro...h-receiver?a=6

And a link to other pictures;

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...tallation.html

[Homebrew]

Thinking out of the box about your issue and I think I have another idea.
How about ordering new bikes once you get to your location and have them delivered by Amazon, it’s definitely cheaper than a custom hitch and bike rack. People change bikes all the time, why not have one at every location?

Having a higher hitch will not prevent your tail end dragging on steep ramps. They make special rollers that mounted under your frame to help prevent damage to your RV.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

Thinking out of the box about your issue and I think I have another idea.
How about ordering new bikes once you get to your location and have them delivered by Amazon, it’s definitely cheaper than a custom hitch and bike rack. People change bikes all the time, why not have one at every location?

Having a higher hitch will not prevent your tail end dragging on steep ramps. They make special rollers that mounted under your frame to help prevent damage to your RV.

My bike cost $7500 new in 2017. To replace it, I'd have to spend close to $9000. My wife's bike is the same as mine. We already own a nice One-Up USA bike rack. We only need to have a receiver mounted to the rear frame. I can probably get it done for under $400. A second bike rack that mounts to the roof of the F-350 would cost under $300.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Here is a picture of a Crew Cab, Short Bed, Super Duty with Tremor package pulling a 41 foot, 16,800lb. 5th wheel.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

And another Super Duty with Tremor Package heavy towing.

[Tundra 2014]

Pulling a Cedar Creek Hathaway 34R-38'-14K lb. w/ a 2019 Ford F-350 long WB 4 wd. I know the bed height on the new trucks is suppose to be 1 " lower. The Tremor pkg. will make it hard to get the trailer level-4" of squat will be a lot. Your headlights will be looking at the sky. I think I would pass on that w/ that large a trailer. On my 14 K set-up, I have 2" and I added Timbrens. I also have a custom 2" receiver on the rear welded to the rear frame. Tried the front bumper receiver on the last truck, did not like looking thru the handle bars w/ Kuat rack. I added extra 2" square tubing, works well.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

I learned a few things after talking to Lippert this morning. They and their lawyers are careful not to endorse changes made to their trailers. They state the Cardinal 3825fl is not designed for a rear bike rack. It does not have a rear bumper and the underside of the camper is sealed. I'm sure someone could figure out a way to weld a brace between the two frame beams and then route a receiver through the rear facia and perhaps seal around the hole with a large grommet to make it look clean, but Lippert does not have it set-up to do this.

Next issue was the height of my 2022 Ford F-350 with the Tremor package. My truck will be taller than a normal F-350 by a couple inches. If I want good clearance off my bed rails to the bottom of the Cardinal, I may end up with the Cardinal riding nose high. Lippert said they offer a 2" lift kit for the suspension. Sadly, after giving them my axles serial number, they said they do not offer the lift kit for the 3824fl.

I'm guessing that any suspension shop can provide a quality 2" lift to the camper, if it needs that to ride level once hooked up to my new truck. So that is something I will consider having done.

Next is solving the problem of how to haul bikes. I already own a One-Up USA bike rack that is set up for holding three mountain bikes. One-Up offers a roof rack adapter that my racks can be transferred onto. Then I would need a Ford roof mount to attach the One-Up cross bar to. I'd also need a footstool so I can easily reach up there to set the bikes into the trays. It's not my ideal solution, but it will work for the 25 days each year we plan to be pulling the Cardinal and transporting the bikes. The rest of the year, I will mount my existing bike rack into the trucks receiver to transport the bikes to the trails.

Here is a picture of one of the leaf springs on one of the Cardinals axles. It does not look like it would be difficult for a shop to raise the camper a couple of inches.

[mmartin_tdc]

You need to be careful on raising that trailer. According to the spec sheet I found, it is at 13.5' tall, which is the legal max.

[Homebrew]

In your 1st post you claimed the Ford forum talked about the same truck squatting 4” pulling heavy fifth wheels.

I would wait to do anything until you hook up to your truck and park in a level area and verify your measurements.


Adding 2” near the axels will create issues since your RV is at the limit for height.
But adding a custom independent suspension system would work. They can customize the height to match your truck.
Or change your rims and tires to 17”, this could add a few inches but still make your RV to high for overpasses, bridges and tunnels.

As soon as you alter your RV your warranty on everything is voided.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Originally Posted by mmartin_tdc

You need to be careful on raising that trailer. According to the spec sheet I found, it is at 13.5' tall, which is the legal max.

I had not considered that. Thanks.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Originally Posted by Homebrew

In your 1st post you claimed the Ford forum talked about the same truck squatting 4” pulling heavy fifth wheels.

I would wait to do anything until you hook up to your truck and park in a level area and verify your measurements.


Adding 2” near the axels will create issues since your RV is at the limit for height.
But adding a custom independent suspension system would work. They can customize the height to match your truck.
Or change your rims and tires to 17”, this could add a few inches but still make your RV to high for overpasses, bridges and tunnels.

As soon as you alter your RV your warranty on everything is voided.

I can't recall the type of camper the person had hooked up to his Tremor F-350. In fact, it may have been a Tremor F-250, although with the Tremor option, the rear suspension may be the same between an F-250 and an F-350. It's possible that persons camper had a larger tongue weight than my Cardinal.

I agree that the best course of action is to get the truck and hook it up and see how it looks and rides. We plan to leave Washington with the Cardinal, as soon as I get the truck in Minnesota and make the drive out west. We will head to Boulder City, Nevada to spend November, before traveling to Phoenix for the winter. When we get to Boulder City (the Las Vegas area), we can find a good suspension shop and see what they can do, if there is any room to lift the Cardinal without creating a dangerous height issue. I'll try to confirm it's current height as the maximum height allowed before doing any suspension work.

I am still planning on purchasing an Anderson Ultimate (high) 5th wheel hitch for the truck. It has three height adjustments to provide adequate bed rail clearance. The technical advisor I spoke to at Lippert, said they do not endorse any add-ons to the kingpin on the Cardinal, such as the one Anderson adds to create a cone shaped receiver for a gooseneck style ball on the Anderson Hitch. It doesn't mean it's not a good product, but he says it could put stress on slightly different parts of the pin box welds. So I'll have another concern to think over before making my purchase of a hitch.

Also, the current tires on the Cardinal are now over six years old. Most of the advice I'm hearing on this forum state that is about as long as you should risk keeping a set of trailer tires. I believe the previous owners upgraded the original tires. They installed Goodyear G614 RST Unisteel tires with load range "G". They are 235/85R/16 size, made in USA. They state mount only on rim with 3750lbs. at 110PSI min. capacity. They won't be cheap to replace. It has been suggested that I could purchase a slightly taller tire with similar load ratings to slightly raise the camper. I'd rather pay someone to add height at the suspension, rather than bring the front and rear tires closer together. They are about 3" apart right now.

[rjw54]

I have a Cardinal 3350 2018. I had the same concerns but there was no problem mounting on a 2017 f350 Single axle. I think you will be fine. Just make sure your hitch has a little play room in height if needed....

[seemannc]

1 Buying a Ford. Fleet truck!

[ER17453361]

Swap that gaser out for Chevy diesel 1 ton 6 foot bed. Skip the dulley. You won't be sorry. I've had mine for 10 years and been everywhere pulling a 40 foot Cedar Creek. My gross weight is close to 25,000 pounds. Mine was a 2500 but the Cardinal is a little heavier. Skip the slider hitch too. Bikes go on the front of the TV. Store the batteries someplace else.

[Wayfaring Stranger]

Originally Posted by ER17453361

Swap that gaser out for Chevy diesel 1 ton 6 foot bed. Skip the dulley. You won't be sorry. I've had mine for 10 years and been everywhere pulling a 40 foot Cedar Creek. My gross weight is close to 25,000 pounds. Mine was a 2500 but the Cardinal is a little heavier. Skip the slider hitch too. Bikes go on the front of the TV. Store the batteries someplace else.

No on the Chevy diesel. I owned a 2003 GMC Duramax Diesel dually. I won't own another diesel, or a dually again. You said I won't be sorry, yet I was, so your advice is not very helpful.

I'd never put my bikes on the front of the truck. I'd be looking out at the bike seats and handlebars. I'll put them on the roof of the truck if I have to.

Any other great advice like telling be to invest in Bit Coin?