Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-09-2022, 08:43 AM   #21
Senior Member
 
Retired JSO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: NE Florida
Posts: 909
We too have a Cardinal equipped with a 2000 PROwatt inverter. The trailer has a 22cf LG residential refrigerator and 2 standard 12volt batteries. We often stop overnight in a truck stop or rest area and continue on the next day. We might not plug in for 36 hours and our Refrigerator has never stopped. Our truck is an F350.
Retired JSO is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2022, 10:43 AM   #22
jkoenig24
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Box Elder, SD (formerly NY)
Posts: 925
"I can't say how well our Ford truck alternator will replenish the batteries"....

Look at the WIRES in the 7-way electrical connection between your F-350 & your trailer. I doubt you'll find ANY of the wires at 10 gauge and, might not even have anything that "heavy". Thin wires = VERY little electrical energy being transferred.

In my 2015 DX3-37RB there were only TWO 12VDC house batteries to power a 22 cubic foot residential fridge. Starting with said batteries FULLY charged, the batteries would be COMPLETELY drained in less than 12 hours. About six months after buying my rig, I upgraded to SIX 6VDC batteries wired in series & parallel (and, I had a single point watering system installed to make "topping off" with distilled water MUCH easier). That set up would allow me two days on batteries through the inverter.

Bottom line; you need MORE battery capacity.
jkoenig24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2022, 01:15 PM   #23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Space Coast of Florida
Posts: 3,469
My fridge draws the about the same DC current as yours, when running. That is ~8amps but it runs 30 mins or less each hour so effectively your fridge draws ~4amps/hr from your battery.

My inverter draws ~2amps just to operate so my fridge and the inverter draw !6amps/hr.

I have 2, 6 volt, 125ah batteries so I have 125ah to draw before I reach 50% SOC.

If all I run is fridge/inverter I can go I could run 20 hours before Iím at 50% SOC. Obviously there are other loads for lights, water pump, furnace, etc.

Watch your power usage and you should be fine overnight assuming your batteries are pretty much charged when you stop.

Use your Victron to get some empirical dataÖ
__________________


2016 Siverback 33IK, Towed 50K+ mile2018 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7L V8 Diesel 4WD Crew Cab

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."
dalford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2022, 07:51 PM   #24
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Puget Island
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by dalford View Post
Since you have the Victron Smart Shunt you should be able to see the drain or charge to your battery real time. Do an experiment, turn off your AC main 50 amp breakers and turn on your inverter. The Victron should show the draw as -amps from the battery. Hook up your truck and start it. Now see if you have +amps. If your battery is pretty much charged it wonít show many +amps as the battery wonít need it but if the fridge is on it will show -8amps probably -10amps as the inverter uses power to invert. Now hook up the truck and see if the - 10 amps turn into some small amount of +amps.__Iíve seen my truck supply 20 amps.

I donít think it matters if you have the diesel or gad, itís,the alternator that does the job.
This morning we did a slightly different experiment. We left Lake Mead and pulled the Cardinal to Camping World, about 35 miles away. The two batteries were fully charged when we unplugged.

But something went wrong immediately, before we pulled out of the park. The message on my Ford truck stated that there was no trailer connected. I had done a brake test as I pulled out and that is the message I got. I pulled the plug out and reinserted it several times and it continued showing that we were not connected to a trailer. My wife ran interference in our Ford Edge and I followed a safe distance (my best guess) behind her during morning rush hour traffic.

When we got to Camping World, the Victron showed the batteries were drained down to 96%. When we got inside the camper, we could see that despite securing the two fridge doors with the supplied rubber bungee cords, the fridge doors were both slightly ajar with a large gallon plastic bottle of ice tea wedged between them.

We discussed several issues that needed attention, including brakes, installing a roof satellite antenna, making the grey and black tank handles work more smoothly, sliding the awning cover forward a couple inches, taking apart the water filter canister in the water closet and inserting the filter (the plastic container was winterized by Camping World and they removed the filter and reattached the plastic container and got it cross threaded and stuck), checking the front ceiling fan switch, adding TPMS monitors and wiring it so it works with the Ford dash display, and also adding a rear camera on the trailer.

During the 40 minutes the service tech was writing up the order, the Victron showed the batteries dropping to 93%, despite us closing the doors on the fridge. Before we left, they plugged the trailer into a 50 amp service.

So, because the trailer plug was not working properly, the trucks alternator was unable to keep the batteries topped off. We will learn more when we get the trailer back.

I expect to hear the brakes on the camper are fine and the plug was just corroded. Camping World is going to overcharge us a lot for the various repairs. I already told them to skip the water filter cannister, even though it was them that over-tightened it when winterizing it. They said even if they could twist off the container in a few seconds and insert the filter and put reinsert the container, they would still have to charge me $80, or a 30-minute labor charge. That was true for several of the easy repairs. So I cancelled two of them.

I knew we would be in for a monster of a repair bill when they said they needed to keep the camper for 7 days. I had expected no more than two days to get everything done. They also told me they do billing similar to how Ford bills me when I drop a vehicle off for service at noon and pick it up at 4pm and see they have billed me for 8 hours of labor. They said that is how everyone bills for work. So it's possible they may have the trailer for a week and charge me for 60 hours of labor at $159 per hour.
Wayfaring Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2022, 08:01 PM   #25
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Puget Island
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlaNative View Post
We have a '17 3250RL Cardinal with the residential frig. When we travel the inverter is on to keep the frig running: necessary to keep it cooling the food. The only issue we've had with the inverter (same one you have) is the remote on/off switch that didn't work. Found a replacement on Amazon for $27: https://www.amazon.com/Xantrex-Techn...s%2C124&sr=8-7 Easy to replace.

At home we turn it off after unloading the frig and other equipment. The first thing we do is empty the ice maker: learned that the hard way after finding water inside the frig, so make sure you unload the ice maker!
Please let us know the experience you have with the new axles/suspension. Very interested in that. We have disc brakes already: great investment!
I think we have a good invertor and I will keep it on almost always and learn how many hours it can keep the fridge cool and the batteries above 50% charge.

Since we sold our home and live fulltime in the camper, I'm not sure when we will shut down the fridge and empty the ice. We do plan to park it on my sisters farm lot when we visit Nebraska in September, while living in a spare room, so we might just plug the camper into an outlet to keep the fridge cool, rather than having to empty out the fridge.

The full-time campers who blogged about the MORryde independent suspension system, got it installed for free because of the advertising they did for MORryde. It was such a popular YouTube video that there is a waiting list for more than six months. We are on the calendar for September 2023. The only other authorized installer of their independent suspension is in Grants Pass, Oregon and they quoted me over $20k for the suspension and the disc brakes that MORryde wanted less than $7k for. They don't have a long waiting list, but we decided to wait.
Wayfaring Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-09-2022, 08:21 PM   #26
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Space Coast of Florida
Posts: 3,469
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfaring Stranger View Post
This morning we did a slightly different experiment. We left Lake Mead and pulled the Cardinal to Camping World, about 35 miles away. The two batteries were fully charged when we unplugged.

But something went wrong immediately, before we pulled out of the park. The message on my Ford truck stated that there was no trailer connected. I had done a brake test as I pulled out and that is the message I got. I pulled the plug out and reinserted it several times and it continued showing that we were not connected to a trailer. My wife ran interference in our Ford Edge and I followed a safe distance (my best guess) behind her during morning rush hour traffic.

When we got to Camping World, the Victron showed the batteries were drained down to 96%. When we got inside the camper, we could see that despite securing the two fridge doors with the supplied rubber bungee cords, the fridge doors were both slightly ajar with a large gallon plastic bottle of ice tea wedged between them.

We discussed several issues that needed attention, including brakes, installing a roof satellite antenna, making the grey and black tank handles work more smoothly, sliding the awning cover forward a couple inches, taking apart the water filter canister in the water closet and inserting the filter (the plastic container was winterized by Camping World and they removed the filter and reattached the plastic container and got it cross threaded and stuck), checking the front ceiling fan switch, adding TPMS monitors and wiring it so it works with the Ford dash display, and also adding a rear camera on the trailer.

During the 40 minutes the service tech was writing up the order, the Victron showed the batteries dropping to 93%, despite us closing the doors on the fridge. Before we left, they plugged the trailer into a 50 amp service.

So, because the trailer plug was not working properly, the trucks alternator was unable to keep the batteries topped off. We will learn more when we get the trailer back.

I expect to hear the brakes on the camper are fine and the plug was just corroded. Camping World is going to overcharge us a lot for the various repairs. I already told them to skip the water filter cannister, even though it was them that over-tightened it when winterizing it. They said even if they could twist off the container in a few seconds and insert the filter and put reinsert the container, they would still have to charge me $80, or a 30-minute labor charge. That was true for several of the easy repairs. So I cancelled two of them.

I knew we would be in for a monster of a repair bill when they said they needed to keep the camper for 7 days. I had expected no more than two days to get everything done. They also told me they do billing similar to how Ford bills me when I drop a vehicle off for service at noon and pick it up at 4pm and see they have billed me for 8 hours of labor. They said that is how everyone bills for work. So it's possible they may have the trailer for a week and charge me for 60 hours of labor at $159 per hour.
I hope your wrong about the labor billing..

93% sounds about right for what was probably over an hour of inverter use. No telling when the fridge came open but it for sure caused the fridge to loose temp and for the compressor to run constantly and even after you shut it it probably was still cooling down. Also, when the door is open the fridge light is on. I have a single bulb in my fridge and it draws 2 amps from the battery when on.

So you were probably drawing over 10 amps the whole time. You never mentioned how many Ah your 6 volt batteries are but just assuming 2, 100Ah batteries give you 200Ah and 93% drain means you used about 14 amps which sounds about right for the circumstances.

Did you happen to look at the Victron for the Ah used?

Let us know what you,find out after getting plug fixed.
__________________


2016 Siverback 33IK, Towed 50K+ mile2018 Ford F-350 Lariat 6.7L V8 Diesel 4WD Crew Cab

"If you don't know where you are going, any road will get you there."
dalford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 04:58 PM   #27
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Michigan
Posts: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayfaring Stranger View Post
You just answered the most important question I had. I will go back and turn on the invertor. I was wondering if I needed to remember to turn it on after we unplug from campground power and then turn it off when we get to the next campground. I was hoping the trucks alternator would supply enough power to prevent the two camper batteries from drawing down while driving.

Since we followed someone's suggestion and purchased the Victron Smart Shunt to monitor the camper batteries through a blue tooth device, we will use my cell phone to keep an eye on the state of charge while driving.

There are so many potential mistakes that can be made, we are trying to be prepared and ask for help from more experienced campers. We will be dropping off the camper at Camping World in Las Vegas on Monday to add a tire pressure monitoring system that is suppose to feed into the Ford dashboard readout and help us stop the camper before a flat tire leads to a lot of damage. We are on a waiting list to take the camper to Mor-Ride to have them pull the axles and install four wheel independent suspension and disc brakes. We are on another waiting list to take our F-350 to Transfer Flow to pull our 34 gallon gas tank and replace it with a 58 gallon tank. We never considered the issue of range when we decided to buy Fords new and powerful gas engine instead of buying the 6.7 liter diesel engine. We get 6.7mpg pulling this 15,000 pound Cardinal, for a range of just over 200 miles and we can't get into many gas pumps, so we view google earth satellite photos to determine the stations we think we can get in and out of. Looking for gas stations every 150 miles causes a lot of anxiety.

But for each problem we face, we find people who also faced them and have found solutions. We found an outstanding mobile cellular internet solution (Insty Connect) that only costs us $15 per month and we have decided to give up on our Dish Tailgator satellite tv provider and go with a Dish Traveller roof antenna mated with a Hopper 3 vs. those very troublesome Dish Wally receivers.

I'm really thankful to you for your willingness to help me solve this issue with our residential fridge. I expect clear sailing from this point onward. Thanks.
You are welcome. Many of the regulars here, including me, learned from others here years ago. It's just my way of paying it forward.

Fire away with more questions as they come up. There is also the cardinal club website. A lot of the same folks here are there as well.
djousma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 07:06 PM   #28
Senior Member
 
CaptnJohn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Eastern NC
Posts: 3,941
Just one 200 watt solar on the roof and a 3k inverter. 2 deep cycle batteries. Everything works except AC and heat pump.
__________________
2022 Montana 3855 BR
2019 F350 6.7 4X4 LB Dually
Edgewater 205 EX 150 Yamaha
CaptnJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2022, 09:50 PM   #29
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Puget Island
Posts: 193
We dropped the Cardinal off at Camping World Las Vegas on Monday with a list of several repairs and improvements.

1) Install a Traveler II satellite dish on the roof
2) Figure out why the trailer brakes are not working
3) Reposition the metal covers over the two awnings that shifted slightly out of position
4) Fix the ceiling exhaust fan in the kitchen
5) Connect a 12 volt wire from a kitchen outlet to our internet router
6) Install Ford's TPMS system that we already purchased
7) Install a rear trailer camera we already purchased from Ford

Camping World wants over $1000 to install the Dish on the roof and wire it into the camper.

They wanted a half-hour of labor to fix each awning. They charge $159 per hour labor and offer a $10 an hour discount for Good Sam members.

The exhaust fan needs a new circuit board that they do not have, so we canceled that job.

They wired our internet router into a 12-volt connection for another half-hour labor.

I think he told me he is charging us 3 hours labor to install the TPMS system.

The failed brakes were the result of a bad 7-pin plug and they wired a new plug and line into the kingpin. I can't recall the bill for that.

What really stings, and I think we should cancel the job, is they want 12 hours labor to install the rear camera and sync it with our Ford info screen.

Out the door they are going to get about $6500 and keep the trailer for 10 days.

I know most of you have been through something like this yourself, but it stings when you have a monthly budget and are living fulltime in the camper.
Wayfaring Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2022, 08:50 AM   #30
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Payson, az
Posts: 3,401
my comments are based upon my experiences so they may not be universal.

$1000 to install a traveler at $150/hr is over 6 hours labor. our cardinal came prewired for satelite. the cables were already run to the roof and they were under a little plastic shield. the work of installing the antenna was to get it up on the roof, anchoring the base, taking the plastic shield off, and connecting the cables. in no way should that take 6+ hours.

i installed our tpms system myself. the only thing that required any modification was installing the repeater up in the front storage compartment. i tapped into a 12 volt wire that was there for a light. just tap into the hot side of this circuit before the light switch so the repeater is always powered. even at my speed this did not take an hour. then you have to screw the tpms sensors onto the valve stems and program the desired pressure into the display unit. you need to know how to install the sensors and do the programming yourself as you may need to do it on the road away from a service center.
again three hours seems excessive.

i do not have a rearview camera. but our cardinal has an enclosure for it in the rear and already has a video cable run from this enclosure up to the front storage compartment. i do not know what device (wireless transmitter?) would connect to the video cable in the storage compartment and what has to be done to get the signal into the ford display screen. but 10 hours? really? i would call around and get quote just for this at an independent shop. does ford have a place to install it and how much?
__________________
2015 cardinal model 3825fl
2015 dodge ram 3500 dually
CHICKDOE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2022, 10:49 AM   #31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Puget Island
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHICKDOE View Post
my comments are based upon my experiences so they may not be universal.

$1000 to install a traveler at $150/hr is over 6 hours labor. our cardinal came prewired for satelite. the cables were already run to the roof and they were under a little plastic shield. the work of installing the antenna was to get it up on the roof, anchoring the base, taking the plastic shield off, and connecting the cables. in no way should that take 6+ hours.

i installed our tpms system myself. the only thing that required any modification was installing the repeater up in the front storage compartment. i tapped into a 12 volt wire that was there for a light. just tap into the hot side of this circuit before the light switch so the repeater is always powered. even at my speed this did not take an hour. then you have to screw the tpms sensors onto the valve stems and program the desired pressure into the display unit. you need to know how to install the sensors and do the programming yourself as you may need to do it on the road away from a service center.
again three hours seems excessive.

i do not have a rearview camera. but our cardinal has an enclosure for it in the rear and already has a video cable run from this enclosure up to the front storage compartment. i do not know what device (wireless transmitter?) would connect to the video cable in the storage compartment and what has to be done to get the signal into the ford display screen. but 10 hours? really? i would call around and get quote just for this at an independent shop. does ford have a place to install it and how much?
Yes, the charges are excessive. No question. You can almost predict how they are going to overcharge you. I knew just what they were going to say. They said the Forest River wiring was inadequate and they would have to run new lines. They said the rear camera wiring required all sorts of work under the trailer, removing the protective cover and routing the wires. I assumed the brakes were fine and it was only the 7-pin connector that was bad and they ended up replacing the entire length of the line from the king pin box, when all it needed was a new plug. They will have the camper for 8 days by the time they finish. They take reservations months in advance and then work a couple hours a day on it while shifting their attention to other campers that may or may not have appointments. It's such awful customer service. The only thing worse might be if we took it somewhere else and got treated even worse. When you are on the road, they know you have few options.

Years ago we had a new home built and I needed a 30 foot long trench cut for a water line from the city meter to the house. I called someone who came and told me he could bring his back hoe and do it for $2000. I told him the guy who leveled the lot with his tractor said he would do the same job for $200. So the guy looks at me and said; OK, I will do it for $200 then. he had just tried to fleece me and then decided to make me a fair offer when he saw he was caught.
Wayfaring Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 06:31 AM   #32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 267
Invertor ,batt, tow

[QUOTE=Wayfaring Stranger;2732442]As often happens with me, I ask questions before I do proper research. As soon as I asked for help here, I began reading my operating manuals and doing further searches for answers online. I once owned a small Keystone Cougar 5th wheel years ago that I added four solar panels to and a 2000 watt invertor and a controller to. So I should have been able to figure this problem out.

So yes, the Forest River Cardinal 3825fl does have an invertor. It is a very nice one. A Xantrex PROwatt sw2000. It is mounted next to the batteries as it should be and comes with an auto transfer switch and a remote panel in the bedroom where most of the important switches are that control the slides and awnings and water heater and exterior lights.

Tomorrow we plan to unplug the camper from shore power and turn on the invertor to confirm it is working and running the refrigerator. The fridge draws 8.5 amps and I have two batteries that might keep the fridge running for half a day. I can't say how well our Ford truck alternator will replenish the batteries as we pull the Cardinal down the road, but I do have an application that allows me to monitor the state of charge on the batteries.

If the invertor is working, and I expect it is, I might get by with everything as is. I could also add a couple more batteries to keep the fridge working for days, even if we are stuck someplace where there is no electrical hookup.

if you do not have solar power driving ???
what is going to charge the batt ????
that teeneetine 14 gage wire from the tow ???
Renolgy makes a amp booster to boost the power from your tow but you need a heaver gage wire from the tow ?? i ran a #4 with a anderson connector

2000 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9 cummins full on custom
2014 rock wood 2608ws lots of custom work
2 side kicks Cre & Zoie
__________________
BOO-BOO-IS-IN-CAMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 09:51 AM   #33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Payson, az
Posts: 3,401
as for the refrigerator doors opening while traveling we also use the rubber straps that came with the trailer. but we also wrap a velcro strap around the handle to keep them closed. we bought the strap at walmart for a buck or two. we've never had a problem using both it and the rubber straps.
__________________
2015 cardinal model 3825fl
2015 dodge ram 3500 dually
CHICKDOE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 03:14 PM   #34
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Puget Island
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by BOO-BOO-IS-IN-CAMP View Post
.

if you do not have solar power driving ???
what is going to charge the batt ????
that teeneetine 14 gage wire from the tow ???
Renolgy makes a amp booster to boost the power from your tow but you need a heaver gage wire from the tow ?? i ran a #4 with a anderson connector
Good points. I will consider putting some panels on the roof next year. We are badly over budget for the remainder of this year and we are on a waiting list for a 58 gallon replacement gas tank from Transfer Flow and on another waiting list with MorRYDE to get my axles removed and add independent suspension and disc brakes. We might want to start buying lottery tickets to cover the costs.
Wayfaring Stranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2022, 04:14 PM   #35
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 267
OUCH CW i will not go there BUT this is what im talking about

this is a game changer changes every thing
google love your RV he explains it too
RENOGY
The DCC12 Series battery chargers are the most effective way to charge your auxiliary or house batteries from the alternator/starter battery. Compatible with a multitude of alternator types, the DCC12 offers correct charging for AGM, Flooded, Gel, and even Lithium deep cycle batteries! Featuring a 3-stage battery charger and multiple electronic protections, owners can feel confident that their batteries are being charged optimally and automatically. For added safety to personnel, the DCC12 isolates the input from the output preventing incorrect voltage transmission. Easily install the compact yet sturdy DC1212 on RVís, commercial vehicles, boats, yachts and many more applications!

2000 DODGE RAM 3500 DULLY 5.9 Cummins Full on custom
2014 Rock wood UL 2608ws customized
2 side kick's Cre & Zoie
__________________
BOO-BOO-IS-IN-CAMP is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cardinal

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 PM.