214 or 223 for single adult mostly in the parks? Opinions welcome

[VailDan]

Hey guys,

I am going to buy a Rockwood or Flagstaff hard side pop-up in next few weeks and possibly take a year off work and travel. I have been to most of the national parks, but last time I was in a tent and this time I want to spend 2 weeks in each national park if possible, probably starting next spring. I am sure the national parks are a circus right now so if anyone has any tips about reservations or how to handle the first come/first serve spots let me know. I have not even looked at next year and not sure what can be reserved, for how long, etc

For a single person doing some BLM, but mostly national and state parks, should I get a a223HW or a214HW? I was originally thinking I would get the 223 with nice couch/table/oven(which I would use more than a microwave because it uses gas) and keep the bathroom out of my living space, and typically walk to bathrooms when possible(90% of time), but I was talking to someone else who lived in one and he said Get the Bathroom. I know this is an opinion question, but I want to hear them because you guys can look at my plans and have a better idea for what you would want.

It sounds like the TT are not allowed in Yellowstone or Glacier because of bears(not sure if the rangers at the entrance ask and take your word for it when they see you have a pop-up trailer), but I heard you might be able to take an internal shower in the National parks if you have a bucket out to collect grey water. Any info on those details is also appreciated.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by VailDan

It sounds like the TT are not allowed in Yellowstone or Glacier because of bears(not sure if the rangers at the entrance ask and take your word for it when they see you have a pop-up trailer), but I heard you might be able to take an internal shower in the National parks if you have a bucket out to collect grey water. Any info on those details is also appreciated.

You've been seriously misinformed. The ban is on "soft sided campers". An A-frame is not a soft sided camper.
Also the ONLY main YNP campground with a permanent ban, is Fishing Bridge CG. And no Glacier campground big enough for RVs, has such a permanent ban.
There's a difference between a popup and an A-frame. They both do qualify as foldable campers.

[rsdata]

Depending on your age a close-by bathroom is an asset you may not want to be without. Once my wife and I crossed 65, we sold our bathroom-less popup and got a trailer with a toilet. We never use the tiny internal shower, instead using it for storage room.

A trailer of the type you mention, while it does not take much to setup, does require you to set it up and take it down. Sometimes it rains when you want or need to get this done. A small trailer can be bought that requires no setup or tear-down and usually has a small bathroom in it. this type is also great for a quick overnight in a rest area or big box store parking lot when you are between camping spots. This will happen from time to time without reservations or an itinerary. Setting up an A-frame in a parking lot is generally discouraged.

Restricted trailers for bear country have canvas walls, I believe. Others with hard walls I believe are OK.

The fellow in the video below is entertaining and pulls a small trailer all over the country. Although the video is hours long, it is entertaining and he shares many ideas about the trailer he chose to own.

https://youtu.be/3rJZiKZlNWU

The reservation period for federal campgrounds that I am aware of is 6 months in advance. For many Fed sites you must be on the internet at 8 AM on the day reservation period opens, especially if you want to stay for the maximum length allowed. Get the Senior pass for 50% discount camping at Fed campgrounds and free entry. see RECREATION DOT GOV for info on Fed campgrounds

Hope this helps

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by VailDan

Hey guys,
but I was talking to someone else who lived in one and he said Get the Bathroom.

I'd take the advice of someone who lived in one. Sometimes it's nice to have a shower available. If you're camping in an area with a vault toilet, you're not going to get a shower.
It looks like both those units have gas grills which you'll probably use a lot more than an oven. If you're camping in the summer, the heat from an oven can make camping uncomfortable.
If you're out sightseeing, the main purpose of that camper will be for sleeping.

National parks allow tent camping, so you'll be camping in luxury in an rv.
As for reservations... who knows. Things are really strange right now so you might want to start looking toward the end of the year.

[VailDan]

Thanks for the info Bikendan. I was thinking TT was "tent trailer" and was speaking to why I was going with a hard side. I thought tent trailers, or soft-sided trailer, were banned in Glacier and I appreciate learning it is basically only YNP. That is good info and thanks for your response.

[VailDan]

Thanks for your info RSDate. I am in my mid 50s and appreciate hearing your opinion. Thanks a lot for the information on reservations as I have reserved tent sites in most of the parks before, but never dealt with anywhere near the demand out there right now and will attempt to plan it out as much as possible. I am hoping it gets better this fall/spring if kids go back to school.

[VailDan]

Thanks for the response reverse_snowbird. I have been stuck thinking about not wanting a microwave because of the power needs, and was kind of mad I was not getting an oven that runs off gas instead even though I knew I would not use an oven much. Never thought about the heat issues from an oven and thanks for that insight. I agree with you in that I would not use an oven much if I had one.

If anyone else has any opinions on this, please post as it help my decision. The cost and the take-up and take-down do not really concern me as much as I think I would enjoy that couch more than the sitting table when stuck inside on rainy days, etc.

[The Tipper]

My wife and I have an A122. We have a big bucket with a toilet seat (she needs, you wouldn't) that we bring in to use at night. We like not "wasting" the space that a built in one would take up during the day.

[pgandw]

Have owned both an A122 for 4 years and an A213HW for 2 years (currently own). If it were just me, I would probably go with an A122s. Everything is a little easier to do with the smaller, lighter box and A-frame - towing, setup, take down. The roof in the smaller model A-frame is completely manual and doesn't need the troublesome and failure-prone electric lift. The lighter weight and lower folded roof made for easier towing and better gas mileage with my minivan. The smaller camper is easier to tuck into those special sites near the water or in the back of a campground.

The front storage trunk is a worthwhile addition, it allows the camper to carry everything for camping except firewood in the camper. In our tow vehicle, we carry firewood and a small cooler. Makes for a lot easier and faster setup.

We sold the A122, and bought the A213HW for a couple of important reasons:

• we moved to a house with a bigger garage. Our previous house could only fit the under 18ft overall length, our present house can fit 20ft 10in (the 2 missing inches are important!) Being able to store the A-frame in the garage is critical to our camping style. Weather changes very quickly in Colorado and Wyoming, so a planned trip often gets delayed or cancelled. OTOH, weather windows pop open on just a few hours notice. From the "go" decision, we can be on the road in under 2 hours, taking time to pack food and clothes.
• DW was undergoing chemo, with one of the side effects being GI problems. She needed a toilet that was more than a port-a-potty in the middle of the floor. We normally use campground facilities. However, the prevalence of vault toilets in public parks in the Rockies has limited us (until her GI tract fully recovers, DW is uncomfortable without flush toilets and showers available).
• DW did not like me crawling over her to get out of bed in the middle of the night or early morning, but she did not want to feel "trapped" in the rear bed position, either.
• The dormer and extra 2ft of box length results in a much more "open" feeling INSIDE compared to the A122.
• The high wall with the taller cabinets results in microwave and sink being more comfortable to use, and a bigger, easier to manage fridge.

We believe in a very simple camping style - cooking, cleanup, and lounging is done outside at/near the picnic table. The A/C (Coolcat) and microwave are nice, but not essential (except summer camping for the A/C).

In summary, the benefits (for us) of the larger A-frame are inside the camper, and the benefits of the smaller A-frame are outside the camper. If your camping style is different or you have a more capable tow vehicle and bigger budget, the priorities in the trade-offs could be very different.

I have camped by myself in both A-frames, and to me the larger A-frame is overkill for one person for my short trips (2-4 days).

Fred W
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (same as A213HW)
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
Last trip: Black Hills, Badlands NP, Ft Robinson, Scott's Bluff
Next trip: Keyhole Lake SP, Wyoming

[rsdata]

but never dealt with anywhere near the demand out there right now and will attempt to plan it out as much as possible. I am hoping it gets better this fall/spring if kids go back to school.

Well, not sure where you are looking to camp, what area of the country, but snowbirds ( I am one) that look for warmer weather usually after Christmas for 2-4 months east of Texas have created quite a bit of demand in the last 6-7 years. This is especially true of state and Federal parks as they are usually less expensive and nicer locations then private parks. Florida and Alabama are really hard to get into anywhere from November to May. I suspect that some people reserve anything they can get when the day to reserve arrives ( usually 6 months in advance for Fed parks and 11 months for state parks in FL). Then they fill in at private camps and sometimes cancel or modify their original reservations at the Fed or state camps. This then often opens a 1, 2 or 3 day opening at those campgrounds later in the reservation window. If you don't mind moving every few days from one spot to another you can often book a week at 3 different spots within the same campground. Personally I don't do that except as a very last resort.

I got a spot at Gulf SHores Alabama state park this past October for 28 days next February. This required me to call constantly for 3 days until I finally got through to a reservations clerk and was able to pick from about 4 dozen sites (left out of about 500 total) for the entire month of February. This timing for reservations was earlier than most parks with an 11 or 12 month reservation window, taking reservations 16 months in advance but ONLY for 1 full month reservations. This then allowed me to make other Fed and state reservations in nearby FL for 2 weeks before and 2 weeks after that February booking at Gulf SHores.

West of the Mississippi and the Rockies there are many more options for camping often in free BLM land and other Fed and state parks in the "off season" when kids are normally in-school, so my comments about eastern campgrounds may not mean much to you.

I mentioned in earlier post that you may find yourself in-between campgrounds with no private camp nearby, so an Interstate rest area or a Walmart or Cracker Barrel parking lot might look good for a quick overnight. Opening up an A-frame is frowned on in those situations... however you may just want to sleep upright in the car seat for 5-8 hours... been there done that. I did post a link to Traveling Robert and his small trailer that is ALWAYS SETUP... an advantage to that type of trailer. These can be only slightly heavier then the larger trailer you asked about, but have significantly more room, at least enough to stop, cook a meal, and spend the night without any setup. My hybrid is easily setup for one small dinette bunk only, so is almost as easy to stop for a quick overnight, but only works for the wife as I stay in the truck cab.

I have a link copied below of most Fed, State and some selected private campgrounds plus REST AREAS from OHIO to FLORIDA for your use. Just use the link to get to the map that I made of those locations in google maps. If you want to modify the map, then make and save a COPY to your google account and you can ADD or subtract whatever you want from YOUR COPY of the map.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?m...YW&usp=sharing


I hope this helps you out.

[Gramps42]

I just spent a month in YNP, Teton & Glacier in my 214HW and loved every minute of it, setting up & taking down 18 times over 7000 mile trip. Just my preference, but I prefer cooking with a grill outside rather than heating up the inside. As far as the roof lift goes, I used TrailerTexans idea to install gas struts for lifting the roof. Easy to install with his detailed instructions and much quicker opening and closing. For me the shower/toilet combo was a must.
Royboy
A214HW
Towing with Toyota Highlander

[mnoland30]

We camped in YNP the first time, and moved to different sites. We always did a lot of driving. The second time, we camped at a USFS campground at Hebgen Lake, right on the water. It was nicer, cheaper, and close to town if we wanted to dine out. All USFS campgrounds allow two week stays. It didn't seem like that much more driving. The first time we had a slide in truck camper. It was nice because we had our own bathroom. I was amazed at the lines for the bathrooms. We took the microwave out of our trailer, because we boondock and needed storage space. Don't miss the southern Utah National and State parks. We stayed at Ken's Lake(again right on the water) for Canyonlands and Arches, and camped on BLM land outside of Goblin State Park (my wife's favorite). Get yourself a 50 or 100 watt solar panel and charge controller. Either install it on the trailer, or set it on the ground. You won't need electric most places if you do that. We quit taking our generator. Sounds like fun, I'm envious.

[Gramps42]

Thanks for the tip on Utah. That is my next trip and I’d like to go to at least the 5 National parks there. I use my microwave every day when camping but use the car for clothes storage.

[pawatt]

I think a small travel trailer would be much better for such extensive travel. you don't want to be putting it up and taking it down in every rest area to go to the bathroom and make lunch and have a nap or whatever.

[mtnlvr]

Originally Posted by pawatt

I think a small travel trailer would be much better for such extensive travel. you don't want to be putting it up and taking it down in every rest area to go to the bathroom and make lunch and have a nap or whatever.

X-2
Having a toilet is nice to have; no middle of the night trips when tired, inclement weather, filthy bathrooms or lines. If traveling; you have your own clean bathroom. As others stated; a stopover enroute, no raising the roof at Walmart , rest area or other places where you want to be incognito. I’d add solar too. If you travel with a dog(s) , having a little more space is helpful; I’m always stepping around my dogs/ their beds.( I travel solo too but my dogs take up space.) Extended trips in a tiny space can be tiring.

[VailDan]

Thanks everyone - I was really leaning toward having a nice couch on other side of trailer, plus I thought I might use the oven some, but I think you guys have completely rules out the 223 for me. I now do not think I would use the oven at all because I never thought about it heating up the place, and I never had heard of anyone talking about lines for the bathroom at the parks. Because of that I will probably go with a 214, but the only other option would be a 122s because it is smaller/cheaper. I was looking through reservations last night and if the length made a difference for what spot you could sign up for, I would go 122s, but with a 4runner I am over 30' either way. Not sure how mad the parks get when you try to fit a 34' into a 30' spot, or if you can even detach length wise in and pull the tongue of the trailer up next to the tow vehicle sometimes to fit, but guessing never recommended to go for a 30' spot and would cause problems if you total length is 34'.

Thanks guys for all the info as I am ready to order and actively shopping.

[Reverse_snowbird]

The parks don't count the total length of your vehicle and trailer. The length of the trailer determines the site you can fit into.
The shortest of that line is 17' and the longest 22', so you should not have a problem finding a site.

[VailDan]

Thanks reverse_snowbird. I just randomly going through parks like Yellowstone, Glacier, and Redwoods spot checking availability for next year and thought they had said to measure both you tow vehicle and trailer. Really good information to know that I am fine grabbing a 22'

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by VailDan

Thanks reverse_snowbird. I just randomly going through parks like Yellowstone, Glacier, and Redwoods spot checking availability for next year and thought they had said to measure both you tow vehicle and trailer. Really good information to know that I am fine grabbing a 22'

Well, there are exceptions to that rule, but you should be fine. The only trouble we ran into was at Yellowstone with a 19' truck and and a 21' trailer. We fit, but backing it into the site required multiple attempts because we had to avoid trees on four sides and a ditch in front.

[rsdata]

Not sure how mad the parks get when you try to fit a 34' into a 30' spot, or if you can even detach length wise in and pull the tongue of the trailer up next to the tow vehicle sometimes to fit, but guessing never recommended to go for a 30' spot and would cause problems if you total length is 34'.

Often the trailer will back in PAST the rear ending of the pad or curb that may be there and have the overhang of the trailer past the end of the pad.

Another thing to do is disconnect and park the TV sideways on the pad and not length wise.

Just don't plan to put a 40 foot fifth wheel into a 25 foot spot.

Total length should be for trailer only