First Post... Need help with Camper Purchase!

[msestephens]

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie on here but will hopefully be here to stay if all works out with my camper purchase on Friday. I have a few questions, and hopefully get a few recommendations.

So, I drive a Subaru Forester. Tow capacity is 2,400 lbs and tongue weight of around 250 lbs. I'm looking at a Flagstaff T12RB. Empty weight is around 2,050 lbs and tongue weight of 220. I know I have to account for gas in the tanks, which will take my tongue weight up to let's say 270 lbs. I'm about 20 lbs over, not including the battery.

I plan on loading a lot of stuff in the rear compartments to help bring the tonque weight down. Right now, the battery would be located behind the LP Tanks. There is no battery there yet. What is the possibility of sticking the battery or batteries in the rear hatch and running a cable up to the front of the RV? I know there's amperage loss to consider and I'd have to use a pretty large gauge wire to make this work, but is it feasable?

I have to find a way to get the tonque weight down or just pass on it. I'm just soooooo close to getting there. I read how overseas the same Subaru Forester has a 4,000 tow capacity and 400 lb tongue weight but here it's lower, I guess because America is a sue happy country. I can understand that they group all terrain, types of drivers, etc in rating a vehicle's capacity because the car could handle a little differently. I live in VA, the piedmont. It's pretty flat.

If I end up being 50 lbs over with my tongue weight, is that a deal breaker or should I press on? My gross vehicle weight is still fine and the gross camper weight will be fine. The only thing that's a little off is the tonque weight.

What are my options here? I'm supposed to go pick this camper up on Friday and I'm super excited. Is 50 lbs all that big of a deal?

Thanks in advance! Mark from Lynchburg, VA

[flyflotrtim]

Post the sticker information from inside the driver door area to give us a better understanding of tongue weight, etc. Do not go by brochure averages, they are never accurate with two vehicle or trailer brochure.

With a fictional empty trailer weight of 2050 and adding in the weights of propane, battery, food, camping gear, etc. better figure a trailer weight of 2600+ pounds. figuring 12 to 13% on your hitch you are looking at around 330 lbs on the hitch. These numbers are of course fictional but you are overweight. Even if right at tongue weight, you would not have anything for an emergency.

Have you considered the tow hitch weight and weight of tv occupants and cargo?

[msestephens]

The tag on the door just lists the GVWR which is 4,480 lbs. Here's what I figured:

3,300 Lbs - Car Weight
310 Front Passengers
60 Rear Passenger
150 Cargo
135 Gas
250 Tongue

4,205 LBS

So, I'm okay with my gross vehicle weight

2,050 Camper Dry Weight
50 Battery
40 Propane
50 Rear Cargo Carrier
40 Cooler
10 Linens
30 Fan, Coffee Pot, Camping Chairs
20 Food (we pack light on food and eat out a lot)
20 Firewood
50 Skillet, Pot and Pan, Plastic Dishes and Cups, etc.
30 Steel Tubing for Cargo Carrier Receiver Mount

Total 2,390 Lbs

We are fine here with the 2,400 tow capacity. We won't be carrying water, we'll fill up when we get to the campground.

We don't plan on keeping a ton of stuff in the camper, just the essentials. We'd have another 200 lbs of weight to spare in the car if we needed to bring anything additional.

My plan was to weld some square tubing (receiver size) 4 feet into the frame and onto the bottom of the rear bumper and mounting my cargo carrier. Here, I'd carry my firewood and grill and I was thinking one of the propane tanks (remove it from the front for tonque weight savings). By having the weight of the cargo carrier in the back, plus the cooler and stuff it should really lighten up the front end, I just don't know how much.

My manual says tongue weight should be 8 to 11 percent of the trailer which would be 264 on the high side. It also lists a max of 200 lbs. I think mounting the cargo carrier in the back and bringing a propane tank back there is really going to help me get closer to this number.

Again, in AUS and EUR this same vehicle is rated for 4K towing and a 400 lb tonque weight. The only difference is in these markets, it comes standard with a radiator cooler which I plan on adding.

I think the car can safely carry the trailer, I'm just wanting to get the numbers where they should be just for extra caution. In the Subaru forums, the Forester faithful are religiously towing 3K with a 300 lb tonque weight and saying the car handles great.

The other thing I thought of, and I KNOW this would get me well under the tonque weight is relocate my battery to the back of the camper. I could put it in the storage area back there and run two heavy gauge wires back up to the front. Truth be told, I will rarely be using the battery. I'll be connected to shore power at the campgrounds and won't even use the battery. However, I know I need a battery to activate the brakes in case my trailer ever decides to hop away. But for this, I could just have a lawnmower battery probably.

I've put a lot of thought into this, too much probably. I just won't want to be irresponsible and have an accident where the numbers are way off and I look like an idiot. I want to do this right, and think I can by modifying my setup a little.

Any ideas? Thanks so much for responding!

[BigH]

In the US vehicles that tow trailers have to prove they are capable of handling those trailers at the weights the manufacturer states. That standard is SAE J 2807. It tests handling, start on grade, stop on grade and more. I have no idea what Europe requires and I have no idea if the vehicle is exactly the same. Even so you are already looking for ways to make something work in an attempt to barely keep weight in the design limits and trying to justify it...-not the best place to be right at the start.

Know this sir, you are playing a potentially dangerous game when you start adding weight to the back of the camper to reduce the tongue weight. Pendulum affect or sway is the result.

It is, of course, your decision...if it were mine I would be looking at doing something different.

Good luck.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_gzdh6to

[Flybob]

I would not tow that trailer with your Subi. Even of you want to tow it totally empty, you will need a brake controller, and trailer connector, and aux trans cooler. Hills either way will be a major problem and you will cause excessive wear on the Subi.

[Sammici]

Big issue with Subaru is the CVT transmission will fail when towing at maximum capacity and payload.
It broke my heart when I knew that it was only good for towing the very smallest of teardrop trailers.

[msestephens]

Thanks everyone. I've decided to pass on this camper. I'll attempt to upgrade my vehicle when able and start looking for a deal on a camper. It seems you get more for your money with the medium size campers anyway as opposed to the tiny ones. I'd rather be safe and not worry about things, or break my car. I really appreciate all your help!

[wmtire]

Just a little reminder on your next RV research. I saw in your calculations, you allotted 40 pounds for propane. Assuming you had 20lb cylinders, the 40 pounds is just the weight of the propane in 2 cylinders, and didn't include the cylinders themselves which on average are 18 pounds per when empty.

You are looking at 76 pounds for two full cylinders

This thread may help

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...d.php?t=133760

[bzac1954]

Originally Posted by msestephens

Hello everyone, I'm a newbie on here but will hopefully be here to stay if all works out with my camper purchase on Friday. I have a few questions, and hopefully get a few recommendations.

So, I drive a Subaru Forester. Tow capacity is 2,400 lbs and tongue weight of around 250 lbs. I'm looking at a Flagstaff T12RB. Empty weight is around 2,050 lbs and tongue weight of 220. I know I have to account for gas in the tanks, which will take my tongue weight up to let's say 270 lbs. I'm about 20 lbs over, not including the battery.

I plan on loading a lot of stuff in the rear compartments to help bring the tonque weight down. Right now, the battery would be located behind the LP Tanks. There is no battery there yet. What is the possibility of sticking the battery or batteries in the rear hatch and running a cable up to the front of the RV? I know there's amperage loss to consider and I'd have to use a pretty large gauge wire to make this work, but is it feasable?

I have to find a way to get the tonque weight down or just pass on it. I'm just soooooo close to getting there. I read how overseas the same Subaru Forester has a 4,000 tow capacity and 400 lb tongue weight but here it's lower, I guess because America is a sue happy country. I can understand that they group all terrain, types of drivers, etc in rating a vehicle's capacity because the car could handle a little differently. I live in VA, the piedmont. It's pretty flat.

If I end up being 50 lbs over with my tongue weight, is that a deal breaker or should I press on? My gross vehicle weight is still fine and the gross camper weight will be fine. The only thing that's a little off is the tonque weight.

What are my options here? I'm supposed to go pick this camper up on Friday and I'm super excited. Is 50 lbs all that big of a deal?

Thanks in advance! Mark from Lynchburg, VA

Just what "flyflotrtim" said but in addition consider this:

1. If you add weight to the rear of any trailer it causes it to weave down the road.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mW_gzdh6to

2. Tongue weight should be 10% to 15% of total trailer weight and no more.

[jkoenig24]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!

You simply DO NOT have enough tow vehicle to SAFELY tow your intended trailer. I believe that some Subaru's have tow ratings of 3500#. To safely tow want you describe, you NEED a tow vehicle upgrade.

Many (most?) RVers think just in terms of towing. That's a mistake. ANYONE who tows needs to think about CONTROLLING their set up. ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (going downhill on a wet curve with other traffic in close proximity coming to a STOP sign). Since your proposal is already SERIOUSLY overweight, you have ZERO safety margin. Again,
DON'T DO IT!!!!

Doing what you propose is an accident waiting to happen!

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by jkoenig24

DON'T DO IT!!!!!!



You simply DO NOT have enough tow vehicle to SAFELY tow your intended trailer. I believe that some Subaru's have tow ratings of 3500#. To safely tow want you describe, you NEED a tow vehicle upgrade.



Many (most?) RVers think just in terms of towing. That's a mistake. ANYONE who tows needs to think about CONTROLLING their set up. ESPECIALLY under adverse conditions (going downhill on a wet curve with other traffic in close proximity coming to a STOP sign). Since your proposal is already SERIOUSLY overweight, you have ZERO safety margin. Again,

DON'T DO IT!!!!



Doing what you propose is an accident waiting to happen!

The OP stated in post #7 he was passing on the RV in case you missed it.

[CaptnJohn]

OP does not have a TV capable of more than some popups. Right track TV upgrade!

[Jim in Halifax]

Originally Posted by msestephens

Thanks everyone. I've decided to pass on this camper. I'll attempt to upgrade my vehicle when able and start looking for a deal on a camper. It seems you get more for your money with the medium size campers anyway as opposed to the tiny ones. I'd rather be safe and not worry about things, or break my car. I really appreciate all your help!

Very!!!VERY!!!!!! SMART DECISION ON YOUR PART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!