Formica Top and Trim Coming Loose

[Pooneil]

We used to have a house with a heat pump. It had a built in delay between cool and heat cycles. It is unfortunate that the Cool Cats do not. It is those pesky high maintenance items again.

I kind of figured out my thermostat and heating options, but until the weather goes from hot to cold while camping (say in December) there is always some doubt if you really know how it works. The only thing that was disappointing about the design is that I am forced to select either the heat pump or the furnace. I was looking forward to having the heat pump on in cool weather and still have the furnace kick in if it got really cold over night.

Maybe a mod is called for? Na!

[rawlus]

for what its worth - the coolcat is generally regarded as high quality and versatile equipment for the money... im optimistic that the problem you may be having with yours is one the dealer can easily address.

as to the countertops - most of these units are built to achieve a specific pricepoint, because that's generally what buyers of these smaller units are looking for. to increase quality of some of these items, flooring, cabinetry, countertops, would drive the value/benefit too high in my personal opinion, there is an upper limit of price viability for something so small - so in most cases residential quality finishes are out.

the particleboard counter material is very susceptible to moisture - i replaced the outdoor "table" with a bamboo cutting board, reusing the hardware... and i replaced the table with folding legs (the newer models have a pedestal design i think) with a furniture grade birch plywood table and RV pedestal. I also cut down the size of the table into two pieces, a square piece that is now the new dinette table for the two of us, and a narrower board that can lay alongside it when the dinette is in bed mode - makes setup easier, gives us a bit more room by moving the table away from the roof (i'm 6'5"), more legroom with the pedestal (which i need) and makes the cabin feel more open when the table is up.

if the other countertops or cabinets failed (which they probably will eventually) i'll use that as an opportunity to upgrade to something more residential quality.

as others have suggested, it concerns me that you seem to have a malfunction and a counter delamination in the same general area - i would check for leaks in the wheelwell, the outdoor speaker and porch light area just as a precaution - might be coincidence but that would be the first thing i would be thinking.

[jjdcamper]

Rawlus:

Thanks for the input. I appreciate it. So many wonderful people on here that are willing to help other campers and their problems. Makes me glad I joined.

There was no sign of moisture in the camper, anywhere. I ruled that out. I attribute the de-lamination to poor workmanship. Particle board is so porous that a significant amount of glue is required to really get a good seal. The particle board probably should have had some sealer put on it before the formica is installed to give the formica, and the trim around the top of the cabinet, a good, flat surface for the formica and the trim to adhere to. The kitchen area counter top is O.K. as well as the dinette table. Both made of the same materials.

The A/C unit could have a faulty thermostat and I'm suspecting some hidden problems. Once it started malfunctioning, I noticed it was no longer dripping water out of the outlets/drains on the outside of the camper. The day before, there was water dripping out to the point that I was considering putting a pan under the ports to catch the water. A/C units, typically pull moisture out of the air and it drains off as the unit runs. The R/H is running around 80 to 90%. And the fact that the unit will not switch over to Heat Pump and will not shut off could mean some additional problems other than a faulty thermostat. These are all problems for the dealer to worry about and fix since the unit is still under full warranty.

I have already resigned myself to the fact that I will have to leave the camper there and let the dealers technicians run through their procedures and when they are done, go back and pick it up. I'm sure the problems can't be fixed in one day. Incidentally, I have more problems with the camper than the ones mentioned here. Not as serious, but still need addressing by the dealer. I plunked down my money, in good faith, and I expect the unit to work as advertised. If they said the A/C may or may not work or that the cabinets may come apart on your third use of the camper, I would have looked elsewhere for something made with better quality. I can understand consumer usables such as tires, batteries, etc. needing replacement but not a brand new A/C unit or cabinets.

Your changing the dinette table is one of personal preference and not because the other table was faulty. (Personally, I prefer the two legged table. I had a pedestal table in my old Flagstaff and it's very wobbly. Two pedestals would be more acceptable to me. Personal preference.)

Thanks for your input. I sincerely appreciate it.

Jim

[Ida Ratherbe Camping]

For what it's worth. When my A/C started acting up, I called Dometic directly and told them what was going on. Asked for the nearest authorized repair shop. They gave me a number to call. Set an appointment, in and out in less than 5 working days with a brand new replacement. Might give it a try, doesn't have to be your dealership to fix vender problems.

[jjdcamper]

Ida:

Were you still under factory warranty? Did you have to pay for the repairs?

Jim

[Ida Ratherbe Camping]

Camper was only 2 months old. And no, didn't cost a dime

[jjdcamper]

To all who have replied:

I sincerely appreciate all you people have tried to do for me, your recommendations and suggestions. I really do appreciate it.

However, I keep reminding myself that these things are sold all over the U.S.A., and are subject to the same conditions as mine is. Moisture, heat, cold etc. I see posts on here from people in Nevada, Arizona, California etc., but I have yet to see any comments on the problems I've incurred. A/C units are bound to malfunction, and I realize that, but I don't see any comments on the formica lamination, or lack of, on any of the posts I've read. Brand new refrigerators can malfunction, brand new cars can also. Anything you buy can be faulty even though it's brand new, especially with so much of our stuff being made in China, but I keep coming back to the same reasoning that these things are sold throughout the U.S.A. and are subject to the same weather conditions I go through, maybe even worse. It gets pretty hot in the South West, MidWest and even in the North. I'm originally from Poughkeepsie, N.Y. and I saw plenty of days when the temp reached 100 degrees and 90% humidity in the middle of the summer. If Forest River agrees to sell these units all over the U.S.A., then they should be able to handle any condition where they're being sold.

Then again, it could be a quality control problem. Since day 1, my outside shower wand has leaked badly to the point I can't turn it on without soaking myself, the right hinge on my stove collapsed inward the first time I opened it, the water coming out of the inside sink is always cloudy (full of air) but clear at the park supply which is city water, the radio won't play recorded music off an SD card or from a USB thumb drive, despite what Genesis says. (I contacted them a long time ago about radio problems and I tried all the fixes they sent me. Nada!) I thought I could charge my MP3 player by plugging it into the USB port but when I did, my MP3 player froze up. I couldn't even turn it off. Had to unplug it and go back to plugging it into an outlet. It could very well be an overall quality control problem.

But, that doesn't change my view of all the nice people who have tried their best to help me. This is truly a great Forum with great folks.

Jim

[gregory]

Jim,
It does sound like you received a "lemon" from right off the lot. I am so sorry you are having any issues at all with your Aframe. It should be fun experience with each trip something you look forward to, but sounds like a study in frustration from the very beginning.

Please keep us updated on the progression of dealer/vender responses and how this plays out in the end for you. Your journey will help others who may have one or more similar problems...and besides, I'm curious as to how each of the issues are handled.

Thanks,
Deb

[handbuilder]

Jim that is awful luck that you have experienced so many different problems with appliances made by different manufacturers. If it helps to know, you can have your warranty problems taken care of by any authorized service center -last I checked, I was not bound to HAVE to return to my dealer for warranty work. This was confirmed by the local service center as well as my beloved dealer. The advantage to going to the dealer is sypposedly I'd get first in line priority over other units not bought from them.

[jjdcamper]

Handbuilder:

I have an appointment to take the camper back to the dealer on Tuesday. I have sent him a list of ALL the problems but if he fixes the major ones, I'll be satisfied. He should fix them all since they are all warranty covered. Thank heavens I have a friend of mine to go with me as it's a two hour drive, one way. I don't care if he keeps it as long as when I get it back, it performs to spec.

Jim

[jjdcamper]

Gregory:

You bet I'll keep this forum posted on the dealers responses and how they handle ALL the problems. It just might help others who are deciding whether to buy or not to buy and from what dealer.

Jim

[handbuilder]

Thats great, Jim! Its good you created a paper trail so the issues will be addressed! Look forward to reading about your outcome!

You did make me remember that my ourdoor showerhead leaks too. I forgot about that spraying me last time I attempted to use it....but I think it's an easy fix - prob just loose connection on the hand held sprayer....will have to remind DH to look at it.

[rawlus]

For what it's worth, my outside table delaminated the first time we went out, humid night I guess. The bamboo cutting board replacement is performing without issue. The interior table I replaced only because it was too heavy, the legs were in the way, and it was not very strong when used as a bed. Best of luck on your repairs!

[jjdcamper]

Rawlus:
I had read somewhere on this Forum that the outside shelf will fall apart if it gets wet. Personally, I find that peculiar that a company sells something to be used outdoors but if you leave it outdoors or if it gets wet, which it's bound to, it will fall apart. I would just assume that when you arrive at a campsite, you would hook up your outdoor propane grill and put the shelf next to it and leave it set up for the length of your trip. Does the manual say not to let the shelf get wet? I set up my Coleman propane stove at the end of the picnic table and leave it there all the time. I close the lid when I'm done cooking but I don't worry about it getting wet. With the lid closed, water doesn't even get inside the stove. It's made for that. I wish Forest River would monitor all these comments. I think they would learn some very interesting things about the products they are selling.

Incidentally, there were a lot of comments about moisture causing my problem with de-lamination. The camper has never been covered but what about the people who do cover theirs during the non camping season? I think it was Handbuilder who showed photos of making corner protective padding so the cover doesn't tear. A cover will really cause moisture between the camper and the cover and eventually wind up inside the camper, even with a breathable cover. Has Forest River taken that into consideration? Doesn't Forest River field test these campers before they start flooding the market with them?

I would dearly love to hear from some A-Liner folks on their experiences with their campers.

Another side note. I contacted Dometic and asked them in what country the A/C - Heat Pump units are manufactured that are in our A Frames. I'm waiting for a reply, if I get one. If I do, I'll post it.
Thanks for your input.

Jim

[rawlus]

The outside shelf will indeed delaminated if it gets wet, it is particleboard, all particleboard is succesptile to this.

[jjdcamper]

UPDATE: I received a response from my email to Dometic about where the units are manufactured. Their response was the thermostat controller is made in Asia but did not tell me where the entire unit is made.

While all this was going on, I had already ordered an ADCO 100% breathable cover for the camper. Since there were so many comments about moisture causing some of the problems, do I dare cover the camper over the few short winter months?

Thanks,

Jim

[thehamguy1]

Jim, several of us use that same ADCO cover on ours for the winter months. I had no trouble with mine and don't recall anyone else saying that they had. I padded the corners of the camper roof as a precaution against tearing, but I don't know if it was necessary. Before closing up and putting on the cover I put a container of desiccant (Damp Rid) inside. When I checked on it three months later there was just a small amount of water in the container. We had five big snows. Each of them melted off completely before the next storm, so there was plenty of chance for the cover to trap water if it were going to. After five months under cover it was snug and dry inside the camper when I opened it up, and no sign nor smell of mold or mildew.

[jjdcamper]

Hamguy:

Thank you for the input. It puts my mind at ease as to cover or not cover. All the "moisture" questions had me bewildered. (I already made foam corner covers, so I don't tear the cover, out of pipe insulation.)

Jim

[handbuilder]

Delamination can also occur due to extreme heat, not just moisture. So many artices on heat related delams on google...I've never had probs using a cover on any of our RVs. Use the Damp Rid for humidity inside trailer. I keep it in there 24/7 - with more moisture collected this simmer than last fall, winter and spring! AND she's popped up in the ventilated shop, not stored in the down, closed position.

[jjdcamper]

Handbuilder:

I looked up Damp Rid at Walmart and they have 14 different variations. Which one is the one you use or recommend?

I am not familiar with that product, so, consequently, have no experience with it. In fact, I never heard of it.

I wonder what people do who reside in really hot areas of the country. The mid and south west gets much hotter than it does here and it would be interesting to know what they do to dissipate the heat and moisture.

I have a very good friend of mine that was a finishing cabinet maker and an excellent wood craftsman before he retired and I think I'll contact him and get his views on this. If it has anything to do with wood, he's an expert on it. I watched him build a complete bar, from scratch, for our local American Legion, in 2002 and that bar still looks brand new. And, of course, it has a formica top. Nothing sees more moisture than a bar top and it also is subject to heat build up from the beer/soda case motors under the bar, steam from filling the sinks with hot water etc. The bar has sinks at both ends and 4 beer/soda coolers. I'll get his take on this. But I still haven't seen any other posts on delam from any other F.R. owner. I still think it's shoddy workmanship!

Thanks for you help,

Jim