RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-01-2012, 09:05 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
ko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 525
I got an A128S and it was advertised to have 262 pounds tongue weight but when I place a scale under the tongue it was 420 pounds, the trailer was empty. I'm not sure if my weight reading is lower or higher, see the following link at the bottom of the page, it shows the correct way to measure tongue weight: http://amazon.curtmfg.com/index.cfm.25.html

I have manage to shift the weight by moving the propane tanks to the back storage, all the heavy stuff are stored to the rear of the trailer and front storage has light stuff in it. I carry 1-2 bikes on the front and with all that adjustment my tongue weight is about 340-380 pounds. My TV SAGS between 1.5 to 2.0 inches. Since I have the 1.25 inch receiver, I have to replace it to support WD. This will cost approx over $400 w/WD. Is it worth getting WD or is my TV ok to handle the trailer for future long trips?
Here is a pic of my rig carrying 1 bike: The sagging is not noticeableClick image for larger version

Name:	image-864162404.jpg
Views:	477
Size:	49.2 KB
ID:	20124
I have traveled over 1000 km and the TV handling has been good, TV rated for 3500 pounds and 350 tongue weight, 2007 Pontiac Torrent w/trans cooler

I'm curious on your sag measurement of your TV with WD and without WD, please post, thanks.
ko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 09:51 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Jeep4Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 615
The key is to measure both rear sag and front lift. You shouldn't see more than about a half I ch lift in the fro t. More than than and you are losing breaking and steering control on your TV.

I have a 2 door wrangler and the short wheelbase combined with a higher than expected tongue weight made me fee that I had no choice bit to add WDH. I got a good deal through Advance Auto on my WDH Setup and spent about $300 to get what I needed.

I now tow with the confidence of a balanced distribution of the weight.

Looking at your pic, I think you are heavy in the rear suspension and likely light in the front. Measure unhitched and then hitched. Measured from the bottom of the center of the wheel well/fender both front and back.
__________________
Jeep4Two
2011 FR Rockwood Premiere A126 Hard Side
TV=2011 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2 Dr
Reese 66065 WDH, Curt WDH Shank #17120
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller, Mopar 7-pin Harness
B&M Transmission Cooler (#70268)
Jeep4Two is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:10 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
handbuilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington state
Posts: 1,258
I am of the thought that if you want your Torrent to live a productive life, get the weight distributor to help adjust the load of your trailer. Why prematurely break down your rig if there is a preventive measure to protect it while towing?

Considering what you paid for your Torrent and what you paid for your trailer, 400- is a small amount to pay to enjoy your purchases for years to come. Most importantly, think of it for what it is, a safety issue. Clearly the tongue weight on the Torrent is overloaded by a significant amount - invest in the proper equipment and eliminate the instability of your vehicle by adding a WD to your RV wish list...in the bigger picture, its a small amount to consider the other outcomes of NOT buying one.
__________________

2012 FR Flagstaff T12SDTH
1996 Shadowcruiser Pop Up Truck Camper
1967 Newell Motorcoach
2003 Ford F150 5.4 V8 Triton Super Cab
2004 Nissan Titan LE 5.6 V8 4x4 Crew Cab
handbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2012, 11:46 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
ThunderRoad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Madison, Wi
Posts: 164
I suspect my TV is similar to yours (3500# tow weight) and my AFrame is as well (I have the cargo rack while you have the enclosed storage bin).

I haul often with two bikes and the cargo bin full of wood and a cooler of beverages and ice. As I considered the WDH, I just decided to do it and be done with it (I got an Equalizer). I feel more comfortable and towing is rock steady even with that much weight (propane up front too). No ass-drag on the car.

I say get one and then you don't need to worry about your numbers so much, especially if you end up front-loading the storage bin. Plus you can stop having to move your propane around.
__________________
2012 Lincoln MKX
2013 Rockwood A122BH A-Frame
ThunderRoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 06:23 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 553
You need to check your manual and see if they mention WD hitch setup and max weight with that. Usually there is a max tongue weight with and without.

On my Suburban it's 500 without and 1000 lbs with.

I doubt that you are risking the rear hitch falling off, but your handling could definately be improved. Do you have any sway issues? Sounds like not since you have plenty of tongue weight. Be cautious for that as you move more weight to the rear.

Another alternative is to install some Timbrens in the rear. These are rubber helper springs that replace your bump stop (you can search on here for lots of posts about them) They are cheap and would help with your ride height. They won't allow you to run overloaded though. PM me if you want more details on these.

Good luck.
crasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 07:02 AM   #6
Member
 
chucker25's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 55
Is the Torrent a 'full-framed' vehicle or is it a 'uni-body' vehicle? And my second dumb question is - can you use a WDH on a uni-body vehicle without worry about the additional stress eventually ripping out the hitch mounts?

I ask these questions only because I do not know the answers, but to me I would think adding a WDH to a vehicle that does not have a full-frame mounted hitch would be a bad thing. Back when we were considering a Santa Fe these were concerns brought to my attention.

Thoughts?
__________________
2013 Rockwood A128S
Ford Ranger
chucker25 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:11 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
handbuilder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Washington state
Posts: 1,258
If I am not mistaken, the 1-1/4" receiver you have is a Class II hitch which actually only has a tongue weight max of 300, not 350. As per Forest River specs, the A-frame trailers require a Class III hitch, which is the 2" receiver (and 350 lb tongue weight). Spend the money and equip your little SUV properly so that you can save youself mechanical issues down the road. You may not feel the load is too much for your rig, since it pulled ok - but the stress on your axles may reflect a different story.

One can not predict when something will fail, and at that point it is usually more expensive to repair.

Why not ask the Pontiac dealer what their thoughts are?
__________________

2012 FR Flagstaff T12SDTH
1996 Shadowcruiser Pop Up Truck Camper
1967 Newell Motorcoach
2003 Ford F150 5.4 V8 Triton Super Cab
2004 Nissan Titan LE 5.6 V8 4x4 Crew Cab
handbuilder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:52 AM   #8
Moderator Emeritus
 
MtnGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 9,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by ko777 View Post
I got an A128S and it was advertised to have 262 pounds tongue weight but when I place a scale under the tongue it was 420 pounds, the trailer was empty. I'm not sure if my weight reading is lower or higher, see the following link at the bottom of the page, it shows the correct way to measure tongue weight: Determining Vehicle Towing Capacity & Trailer Weight | Hitch Info
The method shown is an accurate way to measure the tongue weight if done correctly. It is not too surprising that a 262 lb. listed tongue weight is 420 lbs ready to go down the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ko777 View Post
I have manage to shift the weight by moving the propane tanks to the back storage, all the heavy stuff are stored to the rear of the trailer and front storage has light stuff in it. I carry 1-2 bikes on the front and with all that adjustment my tongue weight is about 340-380 pounds.
Moving the weight around will work to lessen the tongue weight, but be careful that the tongue weight stays at least about 12% of the total trailer weight to keep sway at bay. 340-380 lbs. should be good if the total trailer weight is in the 3000 lb. range or under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ko777 View Post
My TV SAGS between 1.5 to 2.0 inches. Since I have the 1.25 inch receiver, I have to replace it to support WD. This will cost approx over $400 w/WD. Is it worth getting WD or is my TV ok to handle the trailer for future long trips?
The small receiver is concerning. Those are usually used on Class I and II receivers. Typically, if indeed the receiver is a Class II, they are rated to tow 3500 lbs., but usually restricted to a 300 lb. tongue weight. A Class I has only a 200 lb. tongue weight rating. There should be a sticker on the hitch stating the weight limits.

Trailer Hitch Class FAQ

Quote:
Originally Posted by ko777 View Post
Here is a pic of my rig carrying 1 bike: The sagging is not noticeableAttachment 20124
I have traveled over 1000 km and the TV handling has been good, TV rated for 3500 pounds and 350 tongue weight, 2007 Pontiac Torrent w/trans cooler.
The sagging does not look to awful bad....but it is there. Adding 340 - 380 lbs. behind the rear axle really puts a lot of weight on that axle. A trip across some scales would give you an idea of how close you are to your rear axle weight rating.....that figure should be posted on the driver's door. A lightweight WDH would really help level up your vehicle, and should make it drive much better. But, if you have a Class II hitch, they are generally not recommended to use with WDHs......as well as Pontiac might state somewhere in the manual not to use a WDH.
__________________

Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
MtnGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 06:05 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pickerington, OH
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wincrasher View Post
Another alternative is to install some Timbrens in the rear. These are rubber helper springs that replace your bump stop (you can search on here for lots of posts about them) They are cheap and would help with your ride height. They won't allow you to run overloaded though. PM me if you want more details on these.

Good luck.
I 2nd the Timbrens. I have them on my Xterra.
__________________
Currently trailerless.

2014 Silverado Double Cab 1500 5.3L V8 w/3.42 Axle Ratio Tow Vehicle

Sold: 2012 Rockwood A122 Hardside Popup
daveinpickerington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 06:12 PM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
MtnGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shenandoah Valley
Posts: 9,280
Timbrens do nothing to put weight back on the front axle, and do nothing to increase the rear axle weight rating.
__________________

Chap , DW Joy, and Fur Baby Sango
2017 F350 Lariat CCSB, SRW, 4x4, 6.7 PS
2017 Grand Design Reflection 337RLS
MtnGuy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 06:18 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Pickerington, OH
Posts: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtnguy View Post
Timbrens do nothing to put weight back on the front axle, and do nothing to increase the rear axle weight rating.
This is true. After re-reading the original post it appears the OP is over the vehicle's hitch weight rating and the Timbrens would not be the answer.

If the vehicle hitch weight is not being exceeded and there is some sagging due to weak rear springs, the Timbrens work well.
__________________
Currently trailerless.

2014 Silverado Double Cab 1500 5.3L V8 w/3.42 Axle Ratio Tow Vehicle

Sold: 2012 Rockwood A122 Hardside Popup
daveinpickerington is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 06:55 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Jeep4Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 615
I think the key thing here is that to be safe and also extend the life of your tow vehicles you must do a couple things.

First check your tow vehicles manual regarding use of Weight Distributing hitches. It may be that you are allowed to use them, but you may not be. Almost all solid frame vehicles will allow it, and some unibody/uniframe vehicles will as well. Some unibody/uniframe vehicles will not allow it however.

Next check your tow vehicle's towing specs as equipped. If you are over on the tongue weight for the hitch, you'll likely have to upgrade the hitch staying within the factory recommendations for a larger/heavier hitch.

If you upgrade the hitch, then consider whether you need a WDH system. The best way to do this is to hitch up and go to the closest scales with your trailer. It can be dry (or unloaded) for this step if necessary. See what the axle weights are for your front axle, rear axle and trailer axle. Then weight the trailer by itself. The weight of the trailer less the axle weight of the trailer when hitched up is your tongue weight.

Check your axle weight ratings (in your driver's side door panel on the tow vehicle). If you are over, at or very near the axle weight ratings, you need to consider WDH.

Alternatively, you can 'guess' if things are amiss by measuring drop and rise in the rear and front axles. Measure how much drop you get from unhitched to hitched in the rear. At the same time measure the rise in the front axle both unhitched and hitched. This is done by measuring from the top of the wheel opening to the ground. If you are getting any rise at all in the front axle that is not good. However a small bit isn't a worry (1/4" to say 1/2"). With a properly setup WDH you will get some sag in both the rear and front axles versus lots of sag in the rear and some lift in the front.

Choose a WDH setup that is slightly more than your gross trailer weight. For the A-Frames the Reese 66065 10,000GTW / 600TongeWeight(TW) is a good option. Too heavy a setup will not help and likely cause undue stresses and rough ride. You will have to have a 2" receiver to accommodate a WDH setup.

You likely won't need sway control in your WDH. These A-Frames tow like a dream. Just don't load heavy in the rear to reduce tongue weight. Getting less than 10-15% of your gross trailer weight on the tongue will cause sway but as setup the tongue weights of the A-Frames tends to fall very close to the 15% range making them tow very well.

That's how I would approach it - your mileage may vary. There are some great threads about WDH over in the towing section.
__________________
Jeep4Two
2011 FR Rockwood Premiere A126 Hard Side
TV=2011 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2 Dr
Reese 66065 WDH, Curt WDH Shank #17120
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller, Mopar 7-pin Harness
B&M Transmission Cooler (#70268)
Jeep4Two is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 07:02 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Jeep4Two's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Posts: 615
If you decide to do the WDH, Advance Auto has a 15% off "nearly everything" sale now through Oct. 5th (the code is on their home page) and the Reese 66065 is $239 before the discount. You'd have to get a shank to match your needs (how much drop/rise do you need?) and the shanks can run $100-$150 (they carry the Curt shanks, around $100). That would be a total of about $300 WDH and Shank, plus your cost to upgrade the hitch. Free shipping on orders over $75 as well.

I have no interest in Advance Auto, just pointing out one possible way to save a few bucks. I got lucky and got mine at 20% off when I ordered last fall. There are many other resellers of the Reese and other brand WDH systems so be sure to shop around.
__________________
Jeep4Two
2011 FR Rockwood Premiere A126 Hard Side
TV=2011 Jeep Wrangler Sahara 2 Dr
Reese 66065 WDH, Curt WDH Shank #17120
Prodigy P2 Brake Controller, Mopar 7-pin Harness
B&M Transmission Cooler (#70268)
Jeep4Two is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 08:08 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
ko777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 525
Great information we are getting in this thread. I'm getting to know my SUV by checking the owner's manual and looking for answers from the information I'm getting here. In the owner's manual of my Torrent there were no mention of not to use a WDH or to use them but it mention about using a sway control for trailers over 2000 pounds. Do I need a sway control? I have not encounter any sway problems in my trips, in fact the A128S is so steady on the highway I was going over 120 km/hr and I slowdown just because I saw my speedometer.

I also doubled check the sticker on the trailer hitch installed after market and it says up to 3500 pounds and 350 pounds tongue weight. The SUV says tow capacity of 3500 pounds but no mentioned of tongue weight. The Torrent has a stiffer sports suspension which should help towing a trailer.

I still have to get measurements before and after hitching the trailer, how much change in front and the back as indicated by Jeep4Two. I wonder where he got the info of .5 inch more difference in front will affect braking and steering control.

I'm still on the fence on upgrading my trailer hitch and getting a WDH package. Is a sway control a possible upgrade with my current class II hitch?

I may go solo camping this long weekend just to get to know of my trailer and do some test. Maybe start the winterizing the water system of my trailer. I may still go camping this fall without using the fresh water system.

Did anybody replace a tire on an Aframe? I checked the owner's manual and did not find any information on how to jack up the trailer. In the Internet they mostly indicated not to jack from the axle. Is the frame close to the tire strong enough for jacking? I checked my trailer and there is no leaf support for the tires. Where should we put the jack?

Thanks for sharing your knowledge and great tips!
ko777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52 PM.