Is an A122 or T12RB big enough for a family of 4?

[TheWolfPaq82]

Originally Posted by Rook21

Thanks to everyone for the responses. We are still considering the A122 or T12RB and still can't find one within a 3 hour drive.

Does anyone have actual loaded weights and loaded tongue weights (not the published weight in the brochure)? I read on another post someone had a loaded tongue weight of 400 pounds which surprised me.

To those who have suggested a conventional pop-up, we have ruled a conventional pop-up out. As tent campers currently, a traditional tent pop-up doesn't solve our complaints we have with tent camping (moisture/condensation, security, and some sound dampening). We have looked at several tent pop-ups in person and have ruled them out.

At this point, we're looking at A122/T12RB, A-Liner Scout, or needing to upgrade our tow vehicle. Thanks again for all of your help!

You're "Loaded Weight" is going to be whatever you pack into the trailer. Some pack heavy, some pack light. You won't know for sure until you pack it up and go to a scale.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by Rook21

Thanks to everyone for the responses. We are still considering the A122 or T12RB and still can't find one within a 3 hour drive.

Does anyone have actual loaded weights and loaded tongue weights (not the published weight in the brochure)? I read on another post someone had a loaded tongue weight of 400 pounds which surprised me.

At this point, we're looking at A122/T12RB, A-Liner Scout, or needing to upgrade our tow vehicle. Thanks again for all of your help!

We had a 2014 A122 before we moved to the high wall in 2018. Actual loaded weight was 2730lbs with full water the one time we scaled it. 390lbs on the tongue.

We towed the A122 (and now our 2018 T21TBHW) with a 2008 Hyundai Entourage (re-badged Kia Sedona) minivan. We added a second battery from the beginning to support dry camping for 4 nights without a generator or solar. With the 2nd battery, our tongue weight was getting up there.

The A122 has the advantage/disadvantage of no front storage box. The front storage box is an easy way to boost the tongue weight by 100lbs (even though book says not to put more than 150lbs in front storage box). You have to work on keeping the weight of stuff in the back of an FR A-frame to keep the tongue weight where it should be. Traveling with full water helps as the tank is behind the axle.

We went with an E2 Equalizer 600/6000 after our first attempt to tow the A-frame with the minivan. The soft rear suspension sagged more than I liked, and the trailer started porpoising - bobbing the nose of the A-frame and the rear of the minivan at low speeds. The E2 WDH fixed everything - I would not tow this size trailer without it again. It does add 4 minutes with a manual tongue jack to get the WDH bars on/off.

I added a washer to the E2 when we bought the bigger A-frame. But the difference in towing different trailers with a minivan is trailer frontal area, not weight. Having towed 2 different A-frames, and 2 different enclosed U-Haul trailers (no WDH) with the same minivan, I can say that trailer frontal area is the controlling factor in gas mileage, gear used at a given speed, and overall feel. The A122 (with the WDH) was the easiest to tow, got pretty good gas mileage (17-19 towing compared to 21-23 not towing), and hardly ever left top gear on the highway. With the WDH, DW was comfortable driving while towing the A122.

The T21TBHW A-frame feels significantly harder to tow, even though it only weigh 200-300lbs more in camping trim. The extra air resistance of the high wall and the dormer are noticeable, especially since they stick up above the roof of the minivan. I did add a washer to the same WDH, and am happy with the weight distribution.

With the high wall towed by the same minivan, I get 14-15 mpg at the same speeds, 13 mpg if I go faster (I now have 75mph tires instead of 65, so tow at 72-74 when conditions and speed limits permit).

Forest River has heavier A-frames than A-liner for around 1/2 the cost. FR also locates the axle further back to improve handling and almost eliminate sway, but the result is a heavier tongue weight.

Use a WDH with your A-frame and towing with a minivan. It will put a smile on your face, and relax your drive.

just our experiences
Fred W
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[erthomp143]

The size and comfort level are all subjective, what are you willing to tolerate?
I am 6'3" @ 310 lbs and my wife is 5'9", our kids are all grown so I don't have good info for more than two in the trailer.

We picked the A122 for a few reasons, first we needed a trailer our Kia minivan could tow. We also wanted a bed that was off the ground and a dedicated eating area. We got all of that and a bit more with our A122.
So if you want to sleep four you will have to convert the table into a bed, which it does and nicely. My wife and I fit okay on the bed, I was hitting the counter edges from time to time. So we put a sleeping bag down and then use none fitted sheets, it works well. The one thing you will notice right away is there is very little storage and floor space. We put our suitcase and other items under the table and on the bench seats, which you won't be able to do as you would need that for a bed. The fridge is bigger than I thought it would be, but we still need to bring ice chests when going for more than two days.

Well with all that shared, spend the time and effort to take your family to the RV dealer and stuff everyone inside, that's really the only way you will know.

[pgandw]

A further note on the high walls, and towing with a minivan. The high walls have a lot more storage behind the axle (and a lot more storage total), so it is pretty reasonable to keep the tongue weight not much about the spec dry weight (400+ depending on model). With the WDH, I can keep the tongue weight from adversely affecting the van's handling. Actual tow weight with the high wall is 3120 with full water; max gross is 3334 lbs (all the high wall A-frames are less than 3500 lbs). Tow rating on the 2008 Hyundai is 3,500 lbs, no max tongue weight spec'd. Our new 2020 Toyota Sienna is also spec'd for 3,500 lbs, and a WDH recommended for heavier tongue/trailer weights (again no max tongue spec'd). The Hyundai has just over 1100 lbs cargo capacity; the Toyota has over 1300.

Although the towing of the high wall isn't quite as pleasant as it was with the A122 (mainly due to the extra power needed for the extra air resistance), it's certainly safe and not over-stressing anything. My days in helicopter maintenance made me very sensitive to machines being pushed to the limit. That isn't happening towing the high wall with the Hyundai (Kia), even with 230K miles on it.

The noticeable difference is that the engine has to rev into its power band 3K+ RPM more often than with the A122. But I'm talking up the Rockies at 9K altitude at 60+ MPH, or on the Front Range hills at 6K altitude at 72-74 MPH. I've never not been able to maintain the speed limit (stock trailer tires limit me to 75) in the mountain and prairie states.

But the high wall and 14ft box makes all the difference inside for camping for more than a couple of days. The dormer gives 76" headroom over the entire front end. The high walls allow normal height counter, and a fridge that's twice as big. Sink is bigger, too. There's actually room for 2-3 portly people to stand in the middle of the camper.

Pick the A-frame you like best and enjoy camping. Your minivan will do fine, especially with a WDH for small trailers. Once you learn what you really want, used A-frames sell very well for 90+% of what you paid (assume you get a discount on the new).

just my experiences
Fred W
2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
last trip: Twin Lakes Colorado
next trip: Fishers, Indiana