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Old 04-03-2012, 09:25 PM   #1
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Oh yes I did....

Yes, I'm that guy. The new camper went dry during the middle of the DW's first outdoor shower experience...luckily I had a spare 5 gallon reserve jug at the ready. It still made for several anxious, shampoo filled moments. I tried to spin the situation the best I could but some people just aren't into that exhilarating, refreshingly cold outdoor shower experience. In spite of it all, it was a great second trip in the new A-frame.

Seriously though...I can't understand how the fresh water went that quickly. I was monitoring the gray water with a 3 gallon bucket and we only went through MAYBE 3 buckets...and I took a cold shower be very stingy with the water. Something is not adding up. I was topped off when we left....supposedly 20 in the fresh and 6 in the water heater. Either we have a tank leak or I'm just missing something.

On a positive note from this weeks adventure:

The new Honda genny performed even better the second trip. I was able to run the AC in eco mode with a surge only every now and then...and simultaneously had a TV and digital converter going.

Hope everyone else had great outings.

LM
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:30 PM   #2
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did you fill hw heater then top of your tank again ?
Also I have found when filling my fw tank I need to turn water on very very slow as to get it ALL the way full ! Do not go by fw panel gauge it may say full when in fact its not.
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:33 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by loganmartin View Post
Yes, I'm that guy. The new camper went dry during the middle of the DW's first outdoor shower experience...luckily I had a spare 5 gallon reserve jug at the ready. It still made for several anxious, shampoo filled moments. I tried to spin the situation the best I could but some people just aren't into that exhilarating, refreshingly cold outdoor shower experience. In spite of it all, it was a great second trip in the new A-frame.


LM
And you are still breathing???? I think I would have still been screaming like a girl!!! I prefer hot, indoor showers!!!!
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Old 04-03-2012, 09:55 PM   #4
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did you fill hw heater then top of your tank again ?
Also I have found when filling my fw tank I need to turn water on very very slow as to get it ALL the way full ! Do not go by fw panel gauge it may say full when in fact its not.
No..unfortunately gauges are not standard equipment on the A-frame campers. That would be nice.

Supposedly the hot water heater had been filled before delivery by the tech. I had drained the fw tank and sanitized when I got it home and also tested the water heater. I drained and re-filled until it was overflowing. I'm sure it is operator error somehow.

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Old 04-03-2012, 09:57 PM   #5
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And you are still breathing???? I think I would have still been screaming like a girl!!! I prefer hot, indoor showers!!!!
Oh...it was breathtaking alright...kind of a hyperventilating type of feeling.
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:44 PM   #6
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Sorry about your shower experience, for your sake I hope things go better the
next time! I'm not looking forward to that first time when DW runs out of water while showering.

On a separate note, on your generator comment: which Honda did you go with and is your AC 13.5k BTU or 15k? I'm thinking of going with the Honda but just not sure if it's up to the job of running the AC. Thanks!
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:49 PM   #7
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Are you basing your estimate of use based on the capacity that the mfgr advertised? If so, that capacity isn't just the tank, but likley includes the water heater and the water lines. Once the tank is dry, and the pump pulls air, you stop getting water, so while you HAVE that extra 6+ gallons of water still in the water heater (and as part of the advertised capacity), you have no way to push it out!
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:23 AM   #8
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Our old Wildcat 5th wheel was a bear to fill the FW tank! You would put 5 gallons in very slowly and it would blow back 3 of them. You would think it was full, but the the reality was just tank air, needing to burp. It had the vent hole by the filler hole, but it always burped out of the filler hole. Yours may be the same. You think it is full from all the blow-back, but it is simply burping....
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Old 04-04-2012, 05:25 AM   #9
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You will be surprised at how fast you can use water when you are not thinking of it. How much water do you run down the drain when letting the water warm up in the morning to wash up and brush your teeth? How much water do you use to wash dishes or clean up after meals? How much water do you use when cooking? Do use your FW for drinking or do you bring a container for just drinking water. That in it self can save a lot of water. It really adds up over time especially when you have only 20 gallons in the tank. We use a water pitcher to hold water that we run waiting for it to warm up and save it for dishes or whatever else comes up instead of letting it go down the drain. We usually bring four, 7 gallon containers of water every time we go camping,and I top off the tank every morning. I also went through the "water running out when the DW was showering" event. Won't happen again. Good Luck in the Future and Happy Camping.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:29 AM   #10
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OK, my 2c.

Fire Instructor and backpacker 3 have excellent points.
I would like to add, a picture is worth 1000 words.
(But you get the words anyway.)

You will not be able to use all the water in the camper due to how the plumbing works and you, most likely, will not be able to fill the FW tank to the top due to the location of the over flow hose.

The tank indicators are wildly unreliable and can change readings based on the "levelness" of the camper. You can sometimes get more water out in a pinch by adjusting the levelness of the camper (though if you are not sure where your outlet to the pump is you could make it worse.

As an example, in this photo you can see on the far top the overflow vent. It will not "take" more water since the level is at the vent hose. Trying to push more water into the tank under pressure will pressurize the tank and may even rupture it. If it does not rupture, the air pressure in the tank will just push it back out anyway.

At this angle (connected to the truck like you would be at the campground spigot), you will never be able to put in a full tank. It will indicate 2/3 when in fact it is as full as it is going to get. When you get to the spot and level the camper, you "might" get the full light to come on (even though you can see it won't be "Full."

First toilet flush and you will be at 2/3 again. Worse yet, in MY camper the way the probe was installed, 2/3 is more like 1/2 tank. The 2/3 light will go OUT when the water level drops below the probe and the 1/3 light will stay be even when there is still about 1/2 a tank. The empty light will be the only light on (1/3 probe uncovered) even when it is not empty.

HOWEVER, depending on the angle of the bottom of the tank, you may actually be sucking air at the hose connection at this point (thus empty in effect if not actually).

The freshwater gallons in the Brochure is the theoretical maximum amount of usable water. Your experience may differ.
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:33 AM   #11
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Might also be handy to have a "Herkbrary" manual for the indicators as well as the troubleshooting guide.
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File Type: pdf Micro Monitor Panel Troubleshooting.pdf (149.2 KB, 34 views)
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:47 AM   #12
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Lou,
Thanks for the pictures and probe locations. I will look at my system when I pick up my new TT this weekend. As an engineer, love these type of discussions and like the "herkbrary"!!
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Old 04-04-2012, 06:54 AM   #13
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Lou,
Thanks for the pictures and probe locations. I will look at my system when I pick up my new TT this weekend. As an engineer, love these type of discussions and like the "herkbrary"!!
We will be stopping in Vermont as part of our "Fill In The Map" tour in the fall. I will post the campground we will be staying at when I finalize reservations. You can stop by for a cold one.

You familiar with the Greenwood Lodge in Woodford?
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:03 AM   #14
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Thanks for all the responses. From what I gather:

1. My hot water heater was probably still full but doesn't get pushed by the pump if the fresh water tank is empty...there is 6 of the missing gallons.

2. When I was filling the tank it was attached to the tow vehicle and was not level (driveway is slight angle and camper was facing downhill 10-15 deg.)

3. Maybe the tank appeared full when it started overflowing but it could have been air pushing it out because it was not vented properly.


So should I open the both outputs (galley sink and outdoor shower head) and possibly the city water fill cap when trying to fill the fw tank to allow the air to purge from the system? BTW, I have no grey tank for the galley sink..it just comes right out of the side of the camper.

Thanks all!

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:09 AM   #15
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So should I open the both outputs (galley sink and outdoor shower head) and possibly the city water fill cap when trying to fill the fw tank to allow the air to purge from the system?
No, this will not help. The overflow vent tube exits next to the fresh water fill port in most installations.

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BTW, I have no grey tank for the galley sink.. it just comes right out of the side of the camper.
What? This can't be right. It would be illegal in most jurisdictions. Does your manual state that a hose to a suitable container must be attached?
I know you are in a popup but this does not sound right to me.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:12 AM   #16
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Sorry about your shower experience, for your sake I hope things go better the
next time! I'm not looking forward to that first time when DW runs out of water while showering.

On a separate note, on your generator comment: which Honda did you go with and is your AC 13.5k BTU or 15k? I'm thinking of going with the Honda but just not sure if it's up to the job of running the AC. Thanks!
I bought the EU2000...but I only have to run a 10,500 BTU coolcat. I figured I would start with one honda and go to two If I needed more juice. Luckily, I think I'm good to go.

From everything I have researched, with a 13,500 BTU, go with at least a Yamaha 2400. For 15,000 BTU, the two 2000's would be sufficient. That is just what I hear from other peoples experiences. Personally, I would go with 2 Honda's no matter what if I had more than my 10,500 BTU's because of portability and added power.

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Old 04-04-2012, 08:21 AM   #17
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No, this will not help. The overflow vent tube exits next to the fresh water fill port in most installations.





What? This can't be right. It would be illegal in most jurisdictions. Does your manual state that a hose to a suitable container must be attached?
I know you are in a popup but this does not sound right to me.

All I have is the fresh water fill port and a city water intake..that's it.




I know I am free to do a mod. with pvc to an exterior holding tank. Really, the camper has about a 2 inch exit tube directly from the galley sink through the side exterior. I used a bucket to catch it..that is how I was able to monitor how much water was used. I have only camped on private property so I'm not familiar disposal of grey water on public land as of yet.

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Old 04-04-2012, 10:00 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by loganmartin View Post
All I have is the fresh water fill port and a city water intake..that's it.

I know I am free to do a mod. with pvc to an exterior holding tank. Really, the camper has about a 2 inch exit tube directly from the galley sink through the side exterior. I used a bucket to catch it..that is how I was able to monitor how much water was used. I have only camped on private property so I'm not familiar disposal of grey water on public land as of yet.

LM
Yep, that's it. Your Aframe should have come with a 45 degree screw on adapter that fits to a garden hose end. We attach a shorty hose (3' or so long) and drain into a bucket. This keeps the water from flowing down the side of the Aframe and making a mess. Your adapter looks similar to this:
http://www.rvpartscountry.com/thumbn...axx=428&maxy=0

If you leave the adapter on (which we do) you may want to add an end cap to keep mud dobbers and spiders out after removing the hose.

Most campgrounds, whether it is a State / National Park or privately owned, require capturing the gray water in some type of container. Gray water is then disposed of in the dump station or at the shower house. If I remember it correctly, originally the issue was with phosphates, which encourage algae growth and pollutes the waterways. Most modern shampoo and dish soap contain little, if any, phosphate, but the industry has kept the rules for public safety reasons.

Get familiar with Navy showers. They are a great way to conserve cold and hot water.
Navy shower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deb
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Old 04-04-2012, 10:21 AM   #19
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ok there ...

Lots of confusion here cause lots of TT contributing to this thread ...
Anywhoo ... no .. a 2000 watt honda gennie will not power your overhead AC units ... period. Our A-frames have a 10500 btu cool cat .. which takes much less power .. and can be powered by 2000 watts. This is good to know for me .. as i have one sitting in my basement .. never used .. and will be a necessity when we travel down south this fall.
As for the water, I had basically the same thing happen to me last summer, where i was sure the tank was filled, but it was not, due to the large amount of pressure provided by the water fillup hose thingy at a particular campsite. I would suggest going low and slow ... take your time and burp the tank at the end. My FW tank and pump have real issues if you try to fast track the filling process.

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Old 04-04-2012, 10:34 AM   #20
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Yep, that's it. Your Aframe should have come with a 45 degree screw on adapter that fits to a garden hose end. We attach a shorty hose (3' or so long) and drain into a bucket. This keeps the water from flowing down the side of the Aframe and making a mess. Your adapter looks similar to this:
http://www.rvpartscountry.com/thumbn...axx=428&maxy=0

If you leave the adapter on (which we do) you may want to add an end cap to keep mud dobbers and spiders out after removing the hose.

Most campgrounds, whether it is a State / National Park or privately owned, require capturing the gray water in some type of container. Gray water is then disposed of in the dump station or at the shower house. If I remember it correctly, originally the issue was with phosphates, which encourage algae growth and pollutes the waterways. Most modern shampoo and dish soap contain little, if any, phosphate, but the industry has kept the rules for public safety reasons.

Get familiar with Navy showers. They are a great way to conserve cold and hot water.
Navy shower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deb
Thanks Deb...I received the screw on cap but not the L-shaped hose adapter...add it to the list. Also, I was referring to property's that I own or lease that are only open for camping to me. If I travel to private or state help public camping grounds, I will surely carry out grey water.

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