Pro's and con's of getting this

[bgoff60]

Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

Also, what should I look for or be aware of when we view it in a few days?
Fist time Rv'ers for this type of camping unit...excited but want to do some good due diligence.
We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Specs/Features:
14’ box, 21’2” length with hitch
GVRW 3372
Dry 2670
Power roof lift
Power hitch jack
Electric brakes
30A power system
Two twin beds convert to a king with insert
Dinette with stand-up dormer above
10k BTU heat pump (A/C and heater)
Flush toilet with black water cassette (never used)
Sink/water pump (never used)
Microwave
Indoor stovetop
Exterior griddle (never used)
3-Way refrigerator
Dual batteries
Dual propane tanks
Indoor/outdoor stereo
Wi-Fi booster

Thoughts???

[bikendan]

So sorry to tell you but the dry unloaded tongue weight already exceeds your Subaru's max hitch weight of 350lbs. And that's if it has the factory tow package.
The fictional dry tongue weight is 372lbs. That's with no battery, no water, no factory options, no dealer add-ons and no trailer cargo. The real world loaded tongue weight will easily be over 400lbs.
There's more to towing specs, than just towing capacity.
Max hitch capacity is often the Achilles Heel, especially for marginal tow vehicles, like the Outback.
Rockwood Hard Side Pop-Up Campers A213HW - Forest River RV https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/rockw...rs/A213HW/7310
The only model possible for your Subaru, is the A122S.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

[flyflotrtim]

If Dan is correct and I suspect he is, if your max hitch weight is 350 pounds you would be impossibly overloaded with this trailer.

[KyDan]

We totally understand your excitement about entering the camping community but I also agree.
You need a smaller trailer or a bigger tow vehicle.
I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Good luck finding a combination that will work. I believe there are pop-ups that could work but they are much smaller than what you described.
Good luck!
Welcome to FRF!!!

[Dan_Frisbie]

When you register/tag it, you will be charged sales tax.

[pgandw]

Originally Posted by bgoff60

Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Thoughts???

Personally, the price seems a little high to me. I paid just under $14K for my 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW (identical to Rockwood A213HW) A-frame in Aug 2018. New, from the dealer, taxes, title, etc, included.

By agreement with the dealer, I had a quality manual tongue jack installed.

The electric roof lift will likely fail within a couple of years or less depending on how the unit is stored. The problem is water gets past the top seal of the motor unit where the shaft enters the lower shaft housing, and then into the gears and motor. Following the example of others, I replaced the lift motor with gas struts (Forest River has followed our example on latest units and gotten rid of the electric lift motor).

As for tow and tongue weight, your tongue weight will likely be closer to 500lbs, and will definitely exceed 400lbs. Which is why the previous owner had a WDH. Tow weight for camping will likely be 3100-3300lbs. I also use a WDH with both this and my previous A-frame to keep out the rear end sag when towing with a 2008 Hyundai (rebadged Kia Sedona) minivan.

I put on a 3rd party hitch on the minivan, making sure the hitch was rated for more than 350lbs tongue weight. The dealer installed the trailer wiring, and put on an E2 600/6000 WDH to stop porpoising when towing. The combination worked well, and I transferred the WDH over to the T21TBHW when we bought that. Also worked very well on the larger trailer after adding 2 washers to increase weight transfer.

Inspections showed no issues with body or power train for over 100,000 miles (22K miles of towing in Rockies and Prairies). Vehicle is still going strong at 270K. I can't say that Subarus are as well built due to no personal experience. If your Subaru has a CVT - older CVTs had poor reputations for towing over the long term.

In 2021, we started towing with a 2022 Kia Carnival minivan, transferring the E2 WDH over to the new vehicle. Due to launching boats, DW wanted AWD, so we sold the Carnival ($1K less than buy price), and bought a Hyundai Palisade, which has higher tow ratings. Not quite as comfortable as the Carnival, but still a good vehicle. Although the need for the WDH is not as great on the Palisade, I transferred the E2 WDH over again, readjusting it for the new hitch height and the appropriate weight transfer. We much prefer the way the WDH returns the vehicle ride to near stock, DW is quite willing to drive towing.

Fred W
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (same as A213HW)
prev 2008 Hyundai minivan
prev 2022 Kia Carnival minivan
now 2022 Hyundai Palisade
all with E2 600/6000 WDH/anti-sway
now standard with Prodigy 2 brake controller

[bgoff60]

Thank you ALL for helping me NOT make a $17K mistake (Or at least a major safety concern...)Spent several hours last night educating myself on the inter-relationships between towing capacity, tongue weight and additional load factors. Thanks again!

[bgoff60]

Originally Posted by bikendan

So sorry to tell you but the dry unloaded tongue weight already exceeds your Subaru's max hitch weight of 350lbs. And that's if it has the factory tow package.
The fictional dry tongue weight is 372lbs. That's with no battery, no water, no factory options, no dealer add-ons and no trailer cargo. The real world loaded tongue weight will easily be over 400lbs.
There's more to towing specs, than just towing capacity.
Max hitch capacity is often the Achilles Heel, especially for marginal tow vehicles, like the Outback.

Would this be a more acceptable option?
https://www.optimumrv.com/product/ne...hwse-1060737-7

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by bgoff60

Would this be a more acceptable option?
https://www.optimumrv.com/product/ne...hwse-1060737-7

Did you look at the fictional dry tongue weight of 302lbs?
Once you add 40lbsbof the battery, you only have 8lbs left for water, factory options, dealer add-ons and cargo. And the real world tongue weight will easily exceed your max of 350lbs, if you put anything in the front storage compartment.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

[Falcon900Guy]

Originally Posted by bgoff60

Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

Also, what should I look for or be aware of when we view it in a few days?
Fist time Rv'ers for this type of camping unit...excited but want to do some good due diligence.
We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Specs/Features:
14’ box, 21’2” length with hitch
GVRW 3372
Dry 2670
Power roof lift
Power hitch jack
Electric brakes
30A power system
Two twin beds convert to a king with insert
Dinette with stand-up dormer above
10k BTU heat pump (A/C and heater)
Flush toilet with black water cassette (never used)
Sink/water pump (never used)
Microwave
Indoor stovetop
Exterior griddle (never used)
3-Way refrigerator
Dual batteries
Dual propane tanks
Indoor/outdoor stereo
Wi-Fi booster

Thoughts???

Not sure how to burst you ballon but you will pay sales tax when you go to register it in your name. Might call it something else but it is still a tax. In Texas they no longer use a bill of Sale. It’s what the book value is. Not sure what book they use, sorry.

[bgoff60]

Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by bgoff60

Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/

With a 200lbs dry tongue that, that is a much more workable number.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

[PapaGlenn]

Originally Posted by bgoff60

Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/

Tongue weight should be 10-15% of trailer weight so how you load the trailer will be critical to keeping the tongue weight at least 10% without overloading your TV’s rating. Especially if you get closer to the max weight of the trailer.