Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-21-2023, 10:23 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 4
Pro's and con's of getting this

Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

Also, what should I look for or be aware of when we view it in a few days?
Fist time Rv'ers for this type of camping unit...excited but want to do some good due diligence.
We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Specs/Features:
14 box, 212 length with hitch
GVRW 3372
Dry 2670
Power roof lift
Power hitch jack
Electric brakes
30A power system
Two twin beds convert to a king with insert
Dinette with stand-up dormer above
10k BTU heat pump (A/C and heater)
Flush toilet with black water cassette (never used)
Sink/water pump (never used)
Microwave
Indoor stovetop
Exterior griddle (never used)
3-Way refrigerator
Dual batteries
Dual propane tanks
Indoor/outdoor stereo
Wi-Fi booster

Thoughts???
bgoff60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2023, 10:40 PM   #2
Site Team
 
bikendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 31,241
So sorry to tell you but the dry unloaded tongue weight already exceeds your Subaru's max hitch weight of 350lbs. And that's if it has the factory tow package.
The fictional dry tongue weight is 372lbs. That's with no battery, no water, no factory options, no dealer add-ons and no trailer cargo. The real world loaded tongue weight will easily be over 400lbs.
There's more to towing specs, than just towing capacity.
Max hitch capacity is often the Achilles Heel, especially for marginal tow vehicles, like the Outback.
Rockwood Hard Side Pop-Up Campers A213HW - Forest River RV https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/rockw...rs/A213HW/7310
The only model possible for your Subaru, is the A122S.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
bikendan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2023, 10:46 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Northern Foothils CA
Posts: 1,213
If Dan is correct and I suspect he is, if your max hitch weight is 350 pounds you would be impossibly overloaded with this trailer.
__________________
2021 2205S Rockwood Minilite
2019 F 150 Lariat 3.5 Eco Fx4 Max Tow
Equalizer WDH, 1809 lb payload
flyflotrtim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 06:18 AM   #4
Site Team
 
KyDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 10,359
We totally understand your excitement about entering the camping community but I also agree.
You need a smaller trailer or a bigger tow vehicle.
I know that's not what you wanted to hear. Good luck finding a combination that will work. I believe there are pop-ups that could work but they are much smaller than what you described.
Good luck!
Welcome to FRF!!!
__________________
Peace!
Dan & Rita D
2017 Nissan Titan 5.6L King cab 4wd
2016 Evergreen Everlite 242RBS
29' empty nest model. Blue Ox WD hitch
(1 queen bed, large main cabin and huge bathroom)
Camping days 2010-53, 2011-47, 2012-41, 2013-41, 2014-31, 2015-40, 2016-44, 2017-63, 2018-75, 2019-32, 2020-41, 2021-49, 2022-43
KyDan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 07:42 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2021
Posts: 168
When you register/tag it, you will be charged sales tax.
__________________
"I may not be nice, but at least I'm honest".
Dan Frisbie
Dan_Frisbie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 07:54 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoff60 View Post
Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Thoughts???
Personally, the price seems a little high to me. I paid just under $14K for my 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW (identical to Rockwood A213HW) A-frame in Aug 2018. New, from the dealer, taxes, title, etc, included.

By agreement with the dealer, I had a quality manual tongue jack installed.

The electric roof lift will likely fail within a couple of years or less depending on how the unit is stored. The problem is water gets past the top seal of the motor unit where the shaft enters the lower shaft housing, and then into the gears and motor. Following the example of others, I replaced the lift motor with gas struts (Forest River has followed our example on latest units and gotten rid of the electric lift motor).

As for tow and tongue weight, your tongue weight will likely be closer to 500lbs, and will definitely exceed 400lbs. Which is why the previous owner had a WDH. Tow weight for camping will likely be 3100-3300lbs. I also use a WDH with both this and my previous A-frame to keep out the rear end sag when towing with a 2008 Hyundai (rebadged Kia Sedona) minivan.

I put on a 3rd party hitch on the minivan, making sure the hitch was rated for more than 350lbs tongue weight. The dealer installed the trailer wiring, and put on an E2 600/6000 WDH to stop porpoising when towing. The combination worked well, and I transferred the WDH over to the T21TBHW when we bought that. Also worked very well on the larger trailer after adding 2 washers to increase weight transfer.

Inspections showed no issues with body or power train for over 100,000 miles (22K miles of towing in Rockies and Prairies). Vehicle is still going strong at 270K. I can't say that Subarus are as well built due to no personal experience. If your Subaru has a CVT - older CVTs had poor reputations for towing over the long term.

In 2021, we started towing with a 2022 Kia Carnival minivan, transferring the E2 WDH over to the new vehicle. Due to launching boats, DW wanted AWD, so we sold the Carnival ($1K less than buy price), and bought a Hyundai Palisade, which has higher tow ratings. Not quite as comfortable as the Carnival, but still a good vehicle. Although the need for the WDH is not as great on the Palisade, I transferred the E2 WDH over again, readjusting it for the new hitch height and the appropriate weight transfer. We much prefer the way the WDH returns the vehicle ride to near stock, DW is quite willing to drive towing.

Fred W
prev 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame (same as A213HW)
prev 2008 Hyundai minivan
prev 2022 Kia Carnival minivan
now 2022 Hyundai Palisade
all with E2 600/6000 WDH/anti-sway
now standard with Prodigy 2 brake controller
pgandw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 08:20 AM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 4
Thank you ALL for helping me NOT make a $17K mistake (Or at least a major safety concern...)Spent several hours last night educating myself on the inter-relationships between towing capacity, tongue weight and additional load factors. Thanks again!
bgoff60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 11:22 AM   #8
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 4
Quote:
Originally Posted by bikendan View Post
So sorry to tell you but the dry unloaded tongue weight already exceeds your Subaru's max hitch weight of 350lbs. And that's if it has the factory tow package.
The fictional dry tongue weight is 372lbs. That's with no battery, no water, no factory options, no dealer add-ons and no trailer cargo. The real world loaded tongue weight will easily be over 400lbs.
There's more to towing specs, than just towing capacity.
Max hitch capacity is often the Achilles Heel, especially for marginal tow vehicles, like the Outback.
Would this be a more acceptable option?
https://www.optimumrv.com/product/ne...hwse-1060737-7
bgoff60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2023, 12:27 PM   #9
Site Team
 
bikendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 31,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoff60 View Post
Would this be a more acceptable option?
https://www.optimumrv.com/product/ne...hwse-1060737-7
Did you look at the fictional dry tongue weight of 302lbs?
Once you add 40lbsbof the battery, you only have 8lbs left for water, factory options, dealer add-ons and cargo. And the real world tongue weight will easily exceed your max of 350lbs, if you put anything in the front storage compartment.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
bikendan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 08:16 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Falcon900Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Location: Ft Worth, TX
Posts: 126
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoff60 View Post
Unit is the 2021 Forest River Rockwood A213HW. It has only been used 5 times! Kept in a garage in the winters. Owned by a (get his) a 83 year old grandmother who no longer felt safe camping alone with this unit. Has the power hitch jack. Also comes with a weight distribution hitch and sway bars. This will be a private party sale. They are asking $17,500 (No sales tax!)

Also, what should I look for or be aware of when we view it in a few days?
Fist time Rv'ers for this type of camping unit...excited but want to do some good due diligence.
We intend to pull it with a 2022 Subaru Outback Onyx XT. (2.4 Turbo engine with a rated towing capacity of #3,500 - really.

For context, here is the listing they posted:
Really, like new condition.

Specs/Features:
14 box, 212 length with hitch
GVRW 3372
Dry 2670
Power roof lift
Power hitch jack
Electric brakes
30A power system
Two twin beds convert to a king with insert
Dinette with stand-up dormer above
10k BTU heat pump (A/C and heater)
Flush toilet with black water cassette (never used)
Sink/water pump (never used)
Microwave
Indoor stovetop
Exterior griddle (never used)
3-Way refrigerator
Dual batteries
Dual propane tanks
Indoor/outdoor stereo
Wi-Fi booster

Thoughts???
Not sure how to burst you ballon but you will pay sales tax when you go to register it in your name. Might call it something else but it is still a tax. In Texas they no longer use a bill of Sale. Its what the book value is. Not sure what book they use, sorry.
Falcon900Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 01:45 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 4
Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/
bgoff60 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-2023, 02:25 PM   #12
Site Team
 
bikendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Goodyear, Arizona
Posts: 31,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoff60 View Post
Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/
With a 200lbs dry tongue that, that is a much more workable number.

Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
bikendan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-2023, 10:38 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
PapaGlenn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2020
Posts: 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoff60 View Post
Looking at other options and better armed with more 'realistic' hitch weights and total weights...
How does this meet the technical question of does this work:
(Same vehicle: 2022 Subaru Onyx XT (turbo) with a 350 max tongue weight and a 3,500# towing max)
https://aliner.com/campers/evolution-2/
Tongue weight should be 10-15% of trailer weight so how you load the trailer will be critical to keeping the tongue weight at least 10% without overloading your TVs rating. Especially if you get closer to the max weight of the trailer.
__________________
2021 Flagstaff T12RB
2015 Jeep Cherokee Latitude
PapaGlenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:11 PM.