T21TBHW roof actuator failed again

[fasanchez]

Time for class action against forest river. I have gone through 3 motors in 2 years.

[OYO]

Can't argue with anything Fred just posted in post #20. When I did my mod I was emulating a fix the factory had done for Backpacker3's A214HW (he no longer has his Aframe).

I think the rear lift is probably the better solution. That's what the original design was meant to do. Plus I'd have way better anchor points using the bed frames in my A213HW. Why someone thought lifting from only one side would work is pretty....... stupid.

I do get a small amount of buckling on the starboard side when closed. IMO it's from the OEM torsion springs. But it works so well for us my wife would smack me if I just up and changed it. But then again.. what the heck?

Good luck!

[OYO]

FYI. I've moved my 60#ers to the rear roof panel using TrailerTexan's measurements.

So far so good at home. We're heading out to the Carolina shores for a couple weeks, that'll be 5/6 setups/takedowns.

I'll report back.

[TrailerTexan]

Hope it works well for you. The 40 lb ones work great on my A214HW at the rear. FYI, here's the pictures to show how I lower it because I'm short. I finally got around to taking them.

The "pole" is PVC pipe glued together with some fittings because I had them on hand. I figured it would add stiffness but that's probably not necessary.

The bungee on the roof clothes hanger is about 6 inches long and again, I had it on hand.

I hook it with the 90 degree fitting on the end and push up on the front while pulling down with the pipe. Then I use the pipe to continue lowering until I can reach the roof.

Michael

[pgandw]

I finally broke down and bought a boat hook as my assist pole. Hook allows me to pull down on the handle as well as push up.

Next is the rear strut installation. My 2nd lift motor is not sounding good. Will probably return to 40# struts on front when I install the rears.

Fred W
2019 T21TBHW A-frame with stock 40# front struts plus dormer struts
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan still towing at 235k miles
Camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time
Currently camping in Indiana

[RobDe]

Hello, new member here, but lurker ever since 2018 when first got the A Frame "want" after some friends got one.

Learned a lot from here, Thanks!

Having gone through 3 lift actuators, I too, want to go the gas strut route but seeing front struts, back struts.... I want to be 100% sure before I go to drilling into sidewalls.
We have the T19QBHW, and have had both front and rear roof panels replaced under warranty due to buckling. So if we DO get the struts, the T21 roofs are larger than the T19's, and 60's vs 40's on struts, etc.

No stranger to mods, did my own 4" lift using thick walled tubing to get away from the China Bombs, go 14" wheels/Goodyear Endurance. I am in some of the book of faces A Frame groups, so don't know if members here are on some of those groups.

[pgandw]

Early 12ft box FR A-frames did not have an electric lift. My 2014 A122 was a manual lift with no gas lifts, and not that difficult.

I don't know whether the electric lift is now standard, or optional on the 12ft box models.

When I moved up to my 14ft box A-frame (T21, A21 series), the roof is substantially heavier and the electric lift was standard (thankfully my dealer was removing the electric tongue jacks and installing a quality manual unit unless customer requested otherwise). The electric lifts have failed at a high rate, primarily due to water and dirt getting into the mechanism from where the rod enters the body, ever since the larger box size was introduced.

In 2018/2019 models, FR made an attempt to solve some of the problems with the electric lift. They incorporated a plug system instead of hard-wiring the lift motor. A plastic "seal" was added onto the lift motor where the rod enters the body. And most importantly, 40# gas struts were added to assist in lifting the front roof.

None of these solved the problem. But some folks (OYO and others) used the position of the front gas struts to install 60# struts on A-frames where none had been installed. This has been quite successful for some.

On my T21TBHW, the dormer adds more weight to the front roof, and I have the same "warping" of the front roof frame others have reported with the stress of 60# struts that I replaced the factory 40# struts with. I still wasn't comfortable with doing without the lift motor, especially bringing the roof down. With my new boat hook to control things a little better that may change.

After studying roof lifting and lowering more carefully, I have concluded that struts on the rear is a more effective solution than struts on the front. But it does eliminate the lift motor. Some others have installed rear gas struts, and are trying them out. Since my came standard with front gas struts, like you, I have been reluctant to drill new holes to mount struts on the rear. Especially since the acorn nuts and backing plate may/will be noticeable in the twin bed configuration.

Hope this helps summarize where we are. And enjoy your A-frame. We do.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW
2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan
camping Colorado and adjacent states one weekend at a time

[OYO]

I'm still around. We've been dry camping in the Outer Banks (NC) for a week or so with little connectivity (Ocracoke NP has become one of our favorite spots).

We've lifted/lowered at least 10 times since moving the 60# gas springs to the rear using TrailerTexan's measurements (https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...in-199652.html)

Observations:
-Raising is a very slightly more difficult, but more gentle.
-Lowering is much easier. There's assist from the springs in the last foot or so.
-The warping on the roof rail is reduced. Only an anal person would notice

I'm 5'10" and can grab/push the handle, but it's close. We carry a 2' step stool anyway so no big deal.

No regrets on the change. Keep in mind we have a A213HW, no dormer.

I think I've donated a pint or two of blood typing this. Mosquitoes!

Enjoy and be safe.

[Eagle1rm]

I have a question. Does anyone know how much it would cost to replace a skylight on a Flagstaff a-liner? The long one on the back has split. I’ve got it temporarily with duct tape. Thanks

[RobDe]

Should have mentioned have a 2017 T19QBHW / A192HW

[pgandw]

Bump for easy access to TrailerTexan's gas strut installation notes and photos.

I have replaced my bungee brackets (one stripped its rivets and bungee needs replacing) and put the upper strut mounts on the rear roof. Currently looking to see if I can come up with workable strut lengths that put the lower mount about 4-5" down from the hinge (DW prefers backing plate and acorn nuts at that level) or at the mattress level of the bed. Since we mainly use the twin bed configuration, I want to avoid the acorn nuts/backing plate at a level where we will feel them during the night.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Kia Carnival minivan

[pgandw]

After installing the upper mount at 24.5" in from end, and taking measurements, I come up with a minimum stroke of 15"+/- if the strut is set at about 45 degrees. This eliminates shorter struts that would mount high on the A-frame wall. A shallower angle requires even more stroke, and puts a lot more pressure on the hinge. A steeper angle will make closing more difficult, but slightly smaller stroke.

More to follow - will probably end up mocking up something with current struts (the ones TrailerTexan specified) at a steeper angle to see if I can get the bottom mount behind the mattress. I'm having difficulty finding 40# struts longer than 35.5" extended.

Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame

[pgandw]

I completed the mod for the rear struts - using the 40# struts TrailerTexan spec'd. I liked his 24.5" in for lifting the roof - the further in the better - so I put the top mounting pins there. I looked at various places for the lower mount, rotating the strut on the upper pin.

Because we usually use the T21TBHW (A213HW) in the narrow twin bunk configuration, we did not want to feel the backing plate or nuts while sleeping. This meant mounting the lower strut mount near the top of the camper box - similar to the roof latches. Or taking the bottom mount down at least 16" so it would be beneath the mattress/foam topper. We use 2" foam toppers on top of the stock mattress for a comfortable sleep.

I ended up putting the bottom mounts at 17" below the hinge line, and 35" in from the rear measured just above the side running light. This puts the strut a lot more vertical than TrailerTexans, but resolved DW's concerns about the location of the acorn nuts and backing plate. The location I used does not interfere with the rail for the "preparation tables" - we use 2 of the tables on the rail for toaster, coffee pot, sanitizer, flashlight, dog leash, etc. The location also does not interfere with the CoolCat grill, either rear hatch opening, or continuing to use the electric lift motor. And the nuts and backing plate are down behind the mattresses.

TrailerTexan mentioned that going more vertical with the strut would increase effort to bring the roof down. At the same time, a more vertical strut reduces loads imposed on the roof hinge.

In any case, the 17"down/35" horizontal point I used works fine on my rig. Keep in mind I already had 60# struts on the front roof. 40# struts came stock on my unit. I replaced the OEM struts with 60# struts (and through bolted the lower mount with SS #10 machine screws) in an effort to get rid of the lift motor, but they were insufficient to easily lift the roof, or prevent it from coming down rather quickly. The 40# struts added to the rear make all the difference.

Going up, the roof springs up about 4" when latches are released. I simply push up the rear roof handle by hand or with boat hook, and it goes up as fast as I push. If I stop pushing, the roof panels stay where they are. I generally have to walk around to the port side to push the panels into latching at both ends.

Coming down, I pull the rear roof handle down with the boat hook to unlatch starboard side, then walk around to port side to unlatch there with boat hook. Roof stays where ever I stop pulling. Pull the roof the rest of the way down with the handle, and latch the roof closed. Effort down is a little more than effort up, but is certainly not difficult.

I could use the electric lift if wanted - the forces are much lighter than stock. But pushing and pulling is so much faster, and no worries about the motor crapping out.


Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Kia Carnival

[Dadroach]

Your gas actuator installations look great. As many other A-Frame owners know the linear actuator provided by Forest River on the bigger A-Frame campers is not the best. My A212 does not have any dormers, but the roof is very heavy to raise without the help of the actuator. I am looking to get rid of it completely and go the gas spring route. I am just wondering if two 30# gas struts on the front roof and two 40# ones on the back would be sufficient. I was thinking of following TrailerTexans measurements to install them on the back but I am not too sure what to do for the front. I will have to look and see if the same measurements would work in the front. Any thoughts you may have would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Dadroach

[pgandw]

Dadroach

I would try 40# struts all around as a starting point. To be honest, I think I each A-frame is a little different in how easily the roof raises and lowers - and that changes over time. But I don't think the force of the struts is all that critical. More important is getting the open and closed length suited to fit your planned mounting points.

You want the struts to be not quite fully extended when the roof is open in the latched position, and not quite fully contracted when the roof is latched down. So perhaps a half inch of throw left in the 2 extreme positions. For 40# struts, I struggled to find longer than around 36-37" extended. This made minimum strut length around 22-23". I picked an upper point around 24-26" in from the end, then swung arcs with the extended strut until I found a good location for the bottom mount - on both sides. Lots of considerations here, as I discussed with the rear bed. Look at both outside and inside before deciding on mounts to avoid interferences with hatch doors, etc. Best would be to hit a cabinet frame or one of the piano hinges to reduce shear loads on the wall/machine screws. The right front strut bottom mount actually screws through the toilet area top hinge on my unit.

hope this helps
Fred W
2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
2022 Kia Carnival minivan

[Dadroach]

Thanks for the info pgandw. I was just thinking lower force springs in front so that more force would be applied to the rear roof section which is under the front one. Hanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject. I will be tackling this in the spring as soon as the snow is gone.

Thanks again!

[Gramps42]

You don’t need to do anything on the front! If you follow Trailer Texan’s directions using the parts he suggested, you roof will open so easily your grandmother could raise the roof!
Royboy

[Dadroach]

Great to know. I just thought that most of the trailers described on here already had gas struts originally installed from the manufacturer in the front. Mine does not.

Thanks for the info Royboy334!