Tongue Weight Questions

[RiderEh]

Hi All, I have an A-Frame with a storage box on the front. I also have 2 20lb propane tanks, and want to relocate the spare tire to the hitch so that I can park my trailer in my garage. When should I start getting concerned with Tongue weight? I have a 200W solar set up too, I guess I should load this on the rear bed or under while driving to help weigh the back down? Should I leave the box mostly empty or light things only? I'm thinking I should put most of the heavier things in the front of my Tacoma bed.

[CentralMePistol]

From the sounds of it I would be more concerned about your payload than where it actually located.
On the side of your camper you should have a sticker that tells you how much cargo weight you can put on the camper.
Also, be aware that your truck has the same sticker (drivers door usually) that will tell you how much weight you can put on the truck- not just on the hitch. That payload weight will be the total of you, your passengers, your gear, AND the tongue weight of the trailer- it adds up quick.

If you are within specs but feel that you are putting too much tongue weight on the truck you could consider a weight distribution hitch to help balance the load appropriately.

[RiderEh]

My truck is fine, It's just a bit over 1000lbs payload from memory, I've done a lot of landscaping with it. I'd assume a bit more weight on the camper should be no issue either, I'm just talking solar panels, cooler, larger batteries for heavier items. My concern is more weight distribution within the camper.

[SeaDog]

The weight you carry is mainly designed to be carried by the suspension with around 10 ot 15% on the tongue. it is possible to overload the structural strength of the tongue which could lead to failure. Look at your gross weight and figure what the max the max tongue weight should be following the rule of thumb guide lines. Pack your rig accordingly without overloading and use the Tacoma as overflow. JMHO

[RiderEh]

I found this:

Dry Weight 2,000 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,250 lbs.
GVWR 3,250 lbs.
Unloaded Hitch Weight 285 lbs.

So it sounds like I already have 15% on the tongue, but the unloaded hitch weight would be without propane and batteries?

[CurtPutnam]

You want 13 - 15% of the total camper weight resting on the tongue. Best way to measure that is to either go to a CAT scale. Next best way is a tongue weight scale. Full disclosure - I am about to post a Sherline tongue weight scale for sale.

[SeaDog]

Originally Posted by RiderEh

I found this:

Dry Weight 2,000 lbs.
Payload Capacity 1,250 lbs.
GVWR 3,250 lbs.
Unloaded Hitch Weight 285 lbs.

So it sounds like I already have 15% on the tongue, but the unloaded hitch weight would be without propane and batteries?

I figured your tongue weight at Gross would be around 487.5

[RiderEh]

So as an extreme case, though all this weight isn't directly on the hitch, if I add 2x 20lb propane (40lbs ea full, and 2 GC2 batteries (65lb each) and the spare tire (maybe 30lbs?) I'm nearing 500lbs. So I should be ok, but need to consider weighing the back of the trailer more as I previously thought. The water tank, solar panel, and any additional drinking water should help with that, but I'm going to get close to the 3,250 GVWR pretty quick. It may be best to leave my spare on the back of the trailer and just dismount it any time I park the trailer in the garage.

[NJKris]

That 10-15% hitch weight thing goes out the window on single axle trailers. I'm at about 22% on my single axle unit, not a pop-up. What's your hitch weight limit on your tow vehicle? BTW, it's helpful to put your tow vehicle/RV model in your signature, this way we don't have to look for it or ask you.

[RiderEh]

The tow capacity is 6400 lbs, no issues there. The hitch weight is approx 680lbs from what I can find on the internet.

[OYO]

We have the high wall 20' A213HW (Six years today!). With 2 6v GC batteries and propane tanks full it's between 450-500 tongue weight based on what we put in the front storage locker.

[pgandw]

The front storage on my 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW (same as Rockwood A213HW) has a weight placard of 150lbs - would be pretty easy to exceed that. Nevertheless, as Craig said, with 2 GC-2s and 2 propane tanks and a typical load in front storage, my tongue weight came in at just over 510lbs, measured with a Sherline tongue weight scale.

The spare tire is unfortunately an important part of keeping tongue weight reasonable because it is so far back. I have to remove my spare to store in the garage - I just lay it under the camper. I've got it down to 5 min to remove or mount the spare, and I only need to take it on or off at the beginning or end of a trip. I did try towing without the spare mounted on the back. I didn't like the results with the added tongue weight.

I do use an E2 600/6000 WDH with both the previous A122 and present A-frame to level out the tow vehicle - I tow with a minivan. The difference in driveability with the WDH is amazing - the minivans handled like stock with the WDH set up to transfer about 200lbs forward. Wife was quite happy driving while towing the A-frame with the minivans for long stretches - she drove from Colorado Springs to Suffolk, VA.

Fred W
now 2019 Flagstaff T21TBHW A-frame
then 2014 Rockwood A122 A-frame
now 2022 Kia Carnival minivan
then 2008 Hyundai Entourage minivan

[CentralMePistol]

Originally Posted by RiderEh

The tow capacity is 6400 lbs, no issues there. The hitch weight is approx 680lbs from what I can find on the internet.

Tow capacity is pretty much meaningless in the camping world. PAYLOAD capacity is everything... for nearly every vehicle out there you will reach your max payload capacity long before you reach your max towing capacity.

Towing capacity really only applies to trailers which don't put weight on the truck- like a hay wagon. Otherwise you need to monitor payload.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by CentralMePistol

Tow capacity is pretty much meaningless in the camping world. PAYLOAD capacity is everything... for nearly every vehicle out there you will reach your max payload capacity long before you reach your max towing capacity.

Towing capacity really only applies to trailers which don't put weight on the truck- like a hay wagon. Otherwise you need to monitor payload.

I suddenly realize why those hay wagons sway wildly to and fro going down the road....no tongue weight!

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by NJKris

That 10-15% hitch weight thing goes out the window on single axle trailers. I'm at about 22% on my single axle unit....

Why is that exactly? A quick internet search didn't come up with any corroborating evidence of this...not that I don't believe you.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by PodGeek

Why is that exactly? A quick internet search didn't come up with any corroborating evidence of this...not that I don't believe you.

Sea dog says I am off on this also (privately). It's just that a single axle trailer puts additional weight on the tongue, more of which would be on a 2nd axle if it were available. I'm at approximately 700 lbs on the tongue fully loaded with bike rack, full propane tanks, and pair of GC15 batteries. Which is 18% of my trailer's GVWR of 3,890 lbs.



To me, it's intuitive that a single axle would put more weight on the tongue (depending on distance axle is from tongue, thinking of axle as a 'fulcrum' point). If you're not carrying the full 714lb cargo allowance and still have that heavy stuff on the tongue, you can easily be at or above 20% tongue weight. (example: 700 lb tongue weight, trailer weight is 3500 lbs, that's 20% on the tongue.)

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by NJKris

...To me, it's intuitive that a single axle would put more weight on the tongue (depending on distance axle is from tongue, thinking of axle as a 'fulcrum' point)....

I think it depends on the weight distribution relative to the axle. It would be possible to load a single-axle trailer such that there was no weight on the hitch, right? For example, you put your anvil collection in the rear storage compartment such that you perfectly balance the trailer by offsetting all the weight forward of the axle.

[RiderEh]

Yes, I actually see an issue with the storage boxes for this reason. They make it very easy to load this up with things like firewood or other things you don't care to get dirty. I'll have to consider this moving forward and use the storage under the bed more.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by PodGeek

I think it depends on the weight distribution relative to the axle. It would be possible to load a single-axle trailer such that there was no weight on the hitch, right? For example, you put your anvil collection in the rear storage compartment such that you perfectly balance the trailer by offsetting all the weight forward of the axle.

This is true. But being the axle is about 2/3 of the distance to rear, and the only room further back is the water heater, fridge, and bathroom, with limited room to put anything heavier back there, it is difficult to balance the load in this manner.

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by NJKris

This is true. But being the axle is about 2/3 of the distance to rear, and the only room further back is the water heater, fridge, and bathroom, with limited room to put anything heavier back there, it is difficult to balance the load in this manner.

Being pragmatic rather than fanciful I see