The KW1 Water Filter Myth

[97flhtcui]

Myth....I read this whole post and decided to throw in my 2 cents. We are full timers and are using the water pur system that came with our 09 cardinal and our 15 cedar Creek. I run a camco filter after my regulator to catch the dirty water before going into the 5th wheel then let the water pur take care of the rest. After 8 months the canister looks pretty cloudy. I am completely satisfied the filter is doing what it is designed for. At the frog rally I bought 3 filters for $28. I am more than happy with the cartridge and housing.

[jstaffon]

Originally Posted by dmchapman

Well, I'm convinced. I was about to order the KW1 filter from the supply company that ships for free then got to thinking about the many reports of the FR1 leaking or outright breaking. Ours has been in use since July 2015 without a problem but I decided to change to the Pentek 15862 housing and a 2 pack of DuPont WFPFC 8002 polyester/carbon cartridge. About $38 delivered. Got to do some kind of mod during the Winter downtime.

I can't seem to find the model Pentek you mentioned. Do you have a link? Thanks in advance!

[MrGrmpy]

A GE filter, with a carbon 5 micron filter, is 4.0 GPM. Freebirds2831 recent post speaks of their newly installed GE with a 30 micron filter (same as KW1) coming in at around 9.0 GPM and rave about the improved water flow over the KW1.


I didn't see the previous post & not familiar with filter system... IS the HD one a replacement that can easily be installed? If so, do you have the part number or is it a generic 10" filter kit by GE?

Thanks

[Freebirds]

Originally Posted by MrGrmpy

A GE filter, with a carbon 5 micron filter, is 4.0 GPM. Freebirds2831 recent post speaks of their newly installed GE with a 30 micron filter (same as KW1) coming in at around 9.0 GPM and rave about the improved water flow over the KW1.


I didn't see the previous post & not familiar with filter system... IS the HD one a replacement that can easily be installed? If so, do you have the part number or is it a generic 10" filter kit by GE?

Thanks

You may not have seen this follow up posting: "We are still raving about the waterflow increase. However the 9 gpm was a website error. After a week, we are sooo glad we changed. Recommend it to all Trilogy owners." I think it was actually 4 gpm.
After owning the Trilogy for four years, we still recommend the GE filter. We bought it at Home Depot (or Lowe's?).

[gebills]

Originally Posted by freebirds2831

You may not have seen this follow up posting: "We are still raving about the waterflow increase. However the 9 gpm was a website error. After a week, we are sooo glad we changed. Recommend it to all Trilogy owners." I think it was actually 4 gpm.
After owning the Trilogy for four years, we still recommend the GE filter. We bought it at Home Depot (or Lowe's?).

We have installed the Home Depot water filter (GXWH20S) as well. I have no great raves about the new GE system other than the water flow seems better than it was with the original Dynamax Trilogy installed Water Pur model FR1 with the KW1 filter cartridge. I chose the new GE canister FXWTC carbon paper filter elements reportedly good to remove sediment and chlorine, rated at 5 micron filtering. I paid about the same amount for the GE filter cartridge housing and two filter elements at HD as I would have for one Water Pur KW1 filter element online.

[JCDMeyer]

Originally Posted by sonic2

I understand some posts are opinions and should be verified if you question the content before acting on them. I make an effort to purchase only “quality” American made products from American companies whenever I can, so I wanted further clarification on this subject. I contacted Dr. Ronald Martin of Original WaterPur Water Filters and WaterPur Replacement Water Filters at sales@waterpur.com to inquire about the products KW1 and FR1. The following are my questions and the answers I received:

Thank you for your questions and for forwarding the inaccurate post about our product. Questions like yours allow us to correct misconceptions and to remedy the untruths that are posted, either by malice of competitors or a misunderstanding of information.

1) MADE IN THE USA? Our FR1 line is made in Phoenix, AZ.

2) IS THE KW1 & FR1 THE SAME FILTER? The KW1 is the cartridge. The FR1 is the housing. FV-FRKW1 is an item number used internally by Forest River. It is the KW1 cartridge.

3) WHAT IS THE MICRON LEVEL FOR THE KW1 FILTER? The KW1 is five microns. Micron rating has nothing to do with the quality of the filter, but rather the size of inclusions one wants to remove. Many filters accomplish their sediment removal (micron filtration) by wrapping cellulose (paper or cardboard) around an inner tube. If they use carbon, it is usually a few grams of granular carbon (carbon dust) impregnated or sprinkled on this cellulose. Our filters are solid certified green carbon compressed into a solid block. If you cut one in half, you will see the difference. Many other manufacturers use carbon from any available source, such as coal (anthracite) mines. Some advertise coconut carbon which is made from burning coconut trees. In our process, the coconut shells are used after the coconut meat has been removed. The trees remain alive and well to produce additional fruit. Where others use open pits to burn and make their carbon, our shells are burned in closed crucibles, where the heat and steam are captured to run a generator which provides electricity for the plant and significantly reduces harmful green house gas emissions. This process produces a carbon having more micro pores compared to other types of carbon and a unique binder system delivering a product with superior adsorption capacity and kinetcic dynamics. Because of contamination from "fracking" and the concern for chemicals in our water, we have chosen this more expensive carbon and manufacturing process to have a finished product with a high affinity for Volatile Organic Compounds (VOCs). The micron rating tells you what size particles the cartridge removes (the human eye with 20/20 vision cannot see smaller than 20 microns, but the type of carbon and the amount of carbon are the determinants for chemical/voc removal.

4) GALLONS PER MINUTE? The KW1 is rated at 2.5 gallons per minute. It’s at the top of its class for a five micron carbon block filter. Consider that each water fixture (lavatory faucet, kitchen sink faucet, toilet, showerhead, etc. is limited by code to 1 gpm. This filter will supply the shower at full force, the kitchen sink at full force, and still have sufficient capacity to wash your hands in the bathroom sink, all at the same time. Filters that flow at 4 gpm and 9 gpm do not exist without going to very large filters that would not fit in an RV. How can they even make this 9 gpm measurement? Again, they would have to have 9 bathrooms, kitchens, etc flowing at full capacity to consume 9 gpm. (A hose bib or water connection at a camp site could not supply that much and you would fill a 40 gallon holding tank in four minutes.

5) COMPARE A FILTER PURCHASED AT A “BIG BOX” STORE TO YOURS? Filters at Home Depot costing $7-12 would be the GE FXUSC. They are made of pleated paper. They remove no chemicals, tastes or odor. They MUST be replaced after 3 months because the paper begins to disintegrate. Those fibers will then flow to your hot water heater and stick and burn on the inside walls. Again, it offers no protection other than sediment removal.

6) IS THERE A REASON THE KW1 IS NOT LISTED ON YOUR WEBSITE? We supply the KW1 for the sole use of Forest River, because they wanted a product that was better than the standard. Therefore, Forest River was the most obvious distributor. However, the demand has grown so much for the cartridge that it will soon be on our website to help ease the shipping demand. Within the week, we expect to be shipping within 24-48 hours of the order being placed. The KW1 is made exclusively for us by an American company. We could not find a source for certified green carbon in the U.S. so the carbon is produced outside the U.S. but it is NOT from Taiwan or China. The KW1 has been awarded the Water Quality Association Gold Seal.

Personal statement by Dr. Ronald Martin: “Our filters were especially designed to meet the unique demands of an RV, including limited space, length of service, cost of operation and the varying types of water that we encounter as we travel in our RV. We are not a corporate giant making something cheap to put on the shelves of discount DIY stores that can be adapted to an RV. Forest River has been using our products since 1999. We are not the cheapest piece on the shelf, but we are the most cost effective, with most families using one cartridge for an entire 12 months. With that said, I know there are exceptions. Once near Shipshewana, I ruined a filter in 5 days. At first I was upset, but then I realized that that filth was not in my RV system and it wasn’t in my stomach. “

Thank you. Ordering my K-1 filter today.

[lgray]

Originally Posted by JCDMeyer

Thank you. Ordering my K-1 filter today.

If their selling it, it must be true...LOL

[RandK-M]

I didn't want to go another year buying those overpriced KW1 filters. Last month I removed the filter housing and replaced it with a Pentek 10" housing and now I have a huge variety of filter cartridges to choose from. Some of them are one fifth the price.


Sure, I can afford a KW1 filter once or twice a year, but it's the principle of the thing being restricted. Plus, I think the Pentek housing is actually higher quality. If I remember correctly from when I bought the stuff over the winter the new Pentek housing and a couple of filters cost less or around the same as one KW1 cartridge.


Ray

[dmchapman]

I ordered from FiltersFast.com A lesson learned...The clear polycarbonate housings are sensitive to solvents. Mine split and started dripping, probably due to contact with bug spray. (spiders in the cabinetry). I ordered the same size complete filter in the durable blue plastic material and it's working great so far.

[ENGINEER]

I encourage everyone who want to actually learn about water filtration to start with a search of NSF/ANSI 42 2017......which in the American National Standards Institute which certifies thousands of things but in this case is the standard that the WaterPur filter is certified against. You folks can buy all the Chinese filters you want but unless they hold an ANSI certification they provide zero protection....the WaterPur filter is a 5 micron filter providing 2.5 gpm utilizing a solid filtration medium. It will not filter contaminated water (no spin on filter will either) but the WaterPur will eliminate 96% of taste, odor and particular contaminate.....so for $29 once a year.....it's a outstanding, USA made and certified filter.....

[lgray]

Originally Posted by ENGINEER

I encourage everyone who want to actually learn about water filtration to start with a search of NSF/ANSI 42 2017......which in the American National Standards Institute which certifies thousands of things but in this case is the standard that the WaterPur filter is certified against. You folks can buy all the Chinese filters you want but unless they hold an ANSI certification they provide zero protection....the WaterPur filter is a 5 micron filter providing 2.5 gpm utilizing a solid filtration medium. It will not filter contaminated water (no spin on filter will either) but the WaterPur will eliminate 96% of taste, odor and particular contaminate.....so for $29 once a year.....it's a outstanding, USA made and certified filter.....

Plenty of less expensive, with better water flow, NSF Certified options:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vitapur-...-305045874-_-N

[ENGINEER]

Originally Posted by lgray

Plenty of less expensive NSF Certified options:

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Vitapur-...-305045874-_-N

Very true but the WaterPur is an outstanding choice

[JayArras]

I see this thread goes back 4 years. There are several other threads on this forum recommending that you remove the FR1 housing altogether because of cracks and leaks that are developing in the product after a few years. I plan to do this, and because my housing is so hard to get to to change filters and winterize/de-winterize, I am just going to connect the inlet and outlet with a section of pex tubing and call it a day. In it's place, I just plan to us the Campco 20-micron inline filter that you can on Amazon for $18.

[ENGINEER]

Interesting that out of the thousands of owners folks just change things because someone says xyz.... maybe these owners over tightened the filter cracking the housing. Please explain this social media phenomenon

[JayArras]

Well, it's rather simple actually... It's not just "someone" but rather lots of folks who have experienced this issue. Maybe they did overtighten, but don't you think that maybe there's a design flaw there somewhere if it's not just an isolated case?

[myredracer]

Originally Posted by ENGINEER

I encourage everyone who want to actually learn about water filtration to start with a search of NSF/ANSI 42 2017......which in the American National Standards Institute which certifies thousands of things but in this case is the standard that the WaterPur filter is certified against. You folks can buy all the Chinese filters you want but unless they hold an ANSI certification they provide zero protection....

^^^^ 100% true!! If it's not ANSI crtified/listed, they make whatever claims they want, and they do...

Filters and filtration is a rather complex field and could take pages just to scratch the surface. Why use a carbon filter to remove chlorine inside your RV's piping system? If it's the taste and/or odor you don't like, use a POU (point of use) filter at your sink.

When you buy a sediment filter, do you know what's in it? Some cartridges are paper type which bacteria love to grow in. The better choice is a "string-wound" type that bacteria do not grow in and is available in 5-micron. Some so-called "sediment" filters have a micron rating as high as 200 and are useless. The filter screen on a city water inlet is around 60-70 microns in comparison. Filters subjected to high temps from being in the sun or inside a cramped compartment can be a bacteria-generating cesspool.

Flow rates can be misleading. That is when the cartridge is new and they can plug up quickly and the smaller they are, the faster they will. A cartridge in a 10" housing is a good choice and will last a long time.

Micron ratings can also be mis-leading. Cartridges can have either a "nominal" rating or "absolute" rating. Absolute means absolutely nothing smaller than it's micron rating can pass through while nominal means a percentage range of particle sizes are blocked (typically 60-90%) so some particles still get through.

I'll add that getting a filter with KDF or silver in it is a waste of time as they only stop bacteria growing on the filter and still let bacteria pass through.

A 2-stage setup is good. There are various choices for the 2nd cartridge. I use a Doulton ceramic cartridge with a 1 micron rating. While it costs more, they can be cleaned by using a Scotchbrite pad and will last a long time.

Personally I wouldn't waste my money on one of the exterior inline filters.

I encourage anyone who wants to know what's in the water they're consuming and wants to be safe to do some google research. You just never know what's in the water whether it's from a large municipal system or local lake or a private well, especially if you travel around a lot. Could be chemical, biological or other things in the water that aren't good for you. This photo shows a "biomass" that we found on our filter screen after a weekend outing at a local CG. It was just after that when I installed a 4-stage filtration setup using 10" filters and goes down to 0.2 microns... Wanna risk drinking this kinda stuff? Go right ahead. Being biological, a 5 micron filter won't help either.

[ENGINEER]

Actually no I don’t. Having owned WaterPur filtration on a large number of boats and RVs and never knew anyone who have experienced a failure. But any filter assembly can crack if it’s overtightened and no preventative maintenance is ever done. But you can buy whatever you desire. This thread was about the filter cartridges and the cost associated. IMO it’s one of the best certified filters around.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by JayArras

I see this thread goes back 4 years. There are several other threads on this forum recommending that you remove the FR1 housing altogether because of cracks and leaks that are developing in the product after a few years. I plan to do this, and because my housing is so hard to get to to change filters and winterize/de-winterize, I am just going to connect the inlet and outlet with a section of pex tubing and call it a day. In it's place, I just plan to us the Campco 20-micron inline filter that you can on Amazon for $18.

When you remove the factory installed filter and just use one on the end of the hose from city water connection you lose the ability to filter the water from your on-board fresh water tank. In my opinion that's the one you really need the filter for.

As for the "KW-1" filter, based on observation of the length Forest River goes to to build with what appears to be the cheapest items available, and there are so many cheaper filters out there, why do you suppose that they use the KW-1? Could it be that it actually works better? What a concept.

As for changing the filter, it's a once a year happening. I'd rather leave my filter where it is, change it once per year, instead of building an outside free-standing filter system that every dog that wanders through the campground stops to whiz on (along with tires, picnic table legs, etc.

I will agree that FR could do a better job of mounting the filter and that's about to change with mine. A piece of 3/4" lumber, screwed and glued between the main supports for the compartment wall, rather than just two screws through the thin "door skin" will make it a lot easier to change rather than risk ripping the mounting screws out.

Since I like to Boondock more than sit in crowded campgrounds I need to rely on my onboard water tank and prefer that it be filtered. Not happening when the original filter is ripped out.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by ENGINEER

Interesting that out of the thousands of owners folks just change things because someone says xyz.... maybe these owners over tightened the filter cracking the housing. Please explain this social media phenomenon

Sometimes people are more "Sheep" than the actual animals are.

[Whitnee1]

Originally Posted by awwall

I replaced mine with the following and could not be happier!!!

Pentek 158649 1/2" 3G Slim Line 10" Clear Housing Only $19.35

and these filter cartridges....

DuPont Whole House 10-inch Carbon Filter WFPFC8002 Only $6.89

5 gpm and 5 micron
$27 for housing and cartridges!!

Have not looked at it but how difficult was the install?