High altitude, cold weather propane issues.

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

Quote:


What do you guys consider "a good one" as opposed to just replacing with one like the original? My suspicions are with the regulator as neither appliance has enough hours on it to be having burner and mechanical problems, and both work when the pressures are up. I need to at least eliminate the regulator first before dismantling the appliances. Let me know what you recommend and where you would go to purchase one.

Because the one that comes with our trailers is cheap chinese junk.

I just replaced mine a couple of months ago with a Marshall (made in Marshall, Michigan) and it is awesome!

First shot original chinese junk regulator, second photo new Marshall regulator

[Johnfort]

Regulator pressure is also important. It should be 11" Water Column normally. I find that 10" at 8500 feet helps. Less oxygen per cubic foot needs less propane for proper fuel/air ratio.

[Thurman]

It seems that this problem was addressed on this forum last winter. I man who had his tanks filled in New York went to Fl. and had problems with his has appliances. He took his bottles to a local LP supplier in Fl. to assure that his bottles were indeed filled. The LP gas guy told him that the LP suppliers use different LP/butane mixtures in different parts of the country. Seems the LP guy bled off some of the gas in the bottles and topped them off with "local" LP/butane mixture and the gas appliances worked. The LP guy advised the man not to use the mixture in those bottle back up in New York.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by Thurman

It seems that this problem was addressed on this forum last winter. I man who had his tanks filled in New York went to Fl. and had problems with his has appliances. He took his bottles to a local LP supplier in Fl. to assure that his bottles were indeed filled. The LP gas guy told him that the LP suppliers use different LP/butane mixtures in different parts of the country. Seems the LP guy bled off some of the gas in the bottles and topped them off with "local" LP/butane mixture and the gas appliances worked. The LP guy advised the man not to use the mixture in those bottle back up in New York.

As I said in my post, the bottle with the butane is gone. Still having issues with the bottles filled in Colorado. The issue did occur with that bottle, but we used most of it at sea level, and still had the problem.

quote:Regulator pressure is also important. It should be 11" Water Column normally. I find that 10" at 8500 feet helps. Less oxygen per cubic foot needs less propane for proper fuel/air ratio.

So I've seen this suggestion for high altitude. Do you adjust your regulator back to 11 when you go down in altitude? Seems to make sense, less air less gas. I'll try it.

[JohnD10]

I'm wondering if maybe you have a gas leak or you might need to replace (upgrade) your LP regulator.

One of my tanks was filled in Albuquerque a month ago and the other was filled in Denver two 1/2 months ago.

I've been running off of both of those from Denver, CO (mile high city - 5280 ft) to Yuma, AZ (414 ft above sea level).

I just arrived in Pueblo, CO last night and still running off of the Denver tank.

The Denver tank did quit on me during the drive from Flagstaff, AZ to Yuma, AZ (auto switched to the other tank), but the next morning I switched it back to the Denver tank and it worked again.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I'm wondering if maybe you have a gas leak or you might need to replace (upgrade) your LP regulator.

One of my tanks was filled in Albuquerque a month ago and the other was filled in Denver two 1/2 months ago.

I've been running off of both of those from Denver, CO (mile high city - 5280 ft) to Yuma, AZ (414 ft above sea level).

I just arrived in Pueblo, CO last night and still running off of the Denver tank.

The Denver tank did quit on me during the drive from Flagstaff, AZ to Yuma, AZ (auto switched to the other tank), but the next morning I switched it back to the Denver tank and it worked again.

No gas leak. Tanks stayed full all winter with no loss of gas. Actually my first attempts will be to address the heater and refrigerator as separate problems. All of the techno-powers that be suggest I have a dirty flame sensor in my furnace. I will address that first. In addition I will acquire a manometer and check actual pressure of gas from the regulator. I will also check the burner on the fridge for carbon buildup, and ignitor function. Seems the fridges have had issues for NorCold to address altitude in their manual. I feel it gets them out of a lot of potential warranty liability. Just a feeling. After all this I hope I will be living happily ever after. I'll keep you posted.

[Comanchecreek]

Pulled out the furnace yesterday. Had to completely take it apart to get to the flame sensor. Cleaned the flame sensor and fixed the kinked air duct hoses to allow for better air flow. Amazing what a jumbled mess the ducts were. Fired it up and lights on first click and stays lit. Won't be able to test it in cooler climate for a week or so. Was 80 degrees in the barn. I reset my regulator to 1/2 turn below the factory setting also. Again, refrigerator lights no problem. Readjusted the igniter to about 3/16 gap and blew off the burner. We'll see how it goes in a week when we head back to 8600 feet and cooler nights next week.
I'm at 6800 feet at home.

[Mountndream]

i spent last week camped at 7800 feet (Yellowstone) coming from 500 ft (STL) and had zero issues

Will consider myself lucky

[Johnfort]

I re-jetted my Subparburban SW6DEL WH for altitude. And it now ignites on the 2nd or 3rd snap of the igniter, EVERY TIME at 5000'. Used to be at the end of the first cycle, and never at 8500'. Can't wait to see how it does at 8500' now.

My Subparburban heater and Dometic fridge are flawless everywhere, especially after adding two more vents to the heater.

Also have Dinosaur boards on all three, a new regulator, and 10" WC setting.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by Johnfort

I re-jetted my Subparburban SW6DEL WH for altitude. And it now ignites on the 2nd or 3rd snap of the igniter, EVERY TIME at 5000'. Used to be at the end of the first cycle, and never at 8500'. Can't wait to see how it does at 8500' now.

My Subparburban heater and Dometic fridge are flawless everywhere, especially after adding two more vents to the heater.

Also have Dinosaur boards on all three, a new regulator, and 10" WC setting.

What was your reason for the Dinosaur boards? I used them in the past on my Dometic in my motor home and it worked very well. Heater and fridge both working perfectly at 6800 and 80 degrees. We'll see how they do when the temps drop.

[Johnfort]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

What was your reason for the Dinosaur boards? I used them in the past on my Dometic in my motor home and it worked very well. Heater and fridge both working perfectly at 6800 and 80 degrees. We'll see how they do when the temps drop.

They are quality American made, and just work.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by Johnfort

They are quality American made, and just work.

I agree with all that, what I was asking was were you having issues with your appliances that caused you to replace the circuit boards?.

[Johnfort]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

I agree with all that, what I was asking was were you having issues with your appliances that caused you to replace the circuit boards?.

Sorry I missed your question. My WH board died second day of the maiden voyage. The dealer replaced it with a new Dinosaur board.

I called Dinosaur and ask about the furnace and was told that it was a similar board, so I ordered a board for the furnace and replaced it.

My Dometic fridge worked well, but did not get as cold as I thought it should be. So I replace the factory Dometic board with temperature adjustable Dinosaur board.

Now no WH problems no furnace problems and no fridge problems.

I did re-jet the WH for high altitude though.

[Comanchecreek]

In my tear down of my Attwood furnace I have determined that the flame igniter and flame sensor are the same part. I cleaned the igniter and the furnace seems to be functioning properly. Took a lot of hunting around to confirm this fact, but that appears to be the correct assumption. There is no other "flame sensor" anywhere in the system, and the wiring diagram does not show anything else. I'm posting this to let others with Attwood furnaces know so they don't spend hours trying to figure out where the sensor is. Of course if I'm in error I am sure you guys will correct me.

[Comanchecreek]

So had the "after repair" shakedown this week and thought I'd fill everyone in on the results. The only real change in the environment was the cold temperatures were down in the high 40's instead of the high 30's. I was in the exact spot as last time, so altitude was still 8600 feet. I adjusted the regulator back to the original setting, then 1/2 turn lower in pressure. I cleaned the flame sensor on the furnace, and adjusted the igniter gap on the fridge. I rod out a bottle changeover during the test to be sure the changeover valve worked. The fridge functioned flawlessly. Never flamed out, always lit properly, never had to reset it from the time I left home till the time I returned home.
Didn't have to run the furnace as much, but fired it up a couple of times just to try it out. Took two times to light. Blower on, flame on, flame off, relight, flame on, stayed lit till thermostat shut it down. Acceptable, but not a complete cure. Everything else in the rig that runs on gas is working properly including my outdoor firepit, and bar b que. Anyway that's where it all stands now.

[Johnfort]

Originally Posted by Comanchecreek

So had the "after repair" shakedown this week and thought I'd fill everyone in on the results. The only real change in the environment was the cold temperatures were down in the high 40's instead of the high 30's. I was in the exact spot as last time, so altitude was still 8600 feet. I adjusted the regulator back to the original setting, then 1/2 turn lower in pressure. I cleaned the flame sensor on the furnace, and adjusted the igniter gap on the fridge. I rod out a bottle changeover during the test to be sure the changeover valve worked. The fridge functioned flawlessly. Never flamed out, always lit properly, never had to reset it from the time I left home till the time I returned home.
Didn't have to run the furnace as much, but fired it up a couple of times just to try it out. Took two times to light. Blower on, flame on, flame off, relight, flame on, stayed lit till thermostat shut it down. Acceptable, but not a complete cure. Everything else in the rig that runs on gas is working properly including my outdoor firepit, and bar b que. Anyway that's where it all stands now.

You might consider jetting the furnace down a couple of sizes if you go from 5000' to 8 or 9000' regularly. If you seldom go down in altitude you'll not need to change back. Most of this stuff is intended for 0-4500' as manufactured. Jetting it down still works for 2 or 3000' and up.

Central City's upper KOA is 8500' and a great test ground.

[Johnfort]

Originally Posted by Johnfort

You might consider jetting the furnace down a couple of sizes if you go from 5000' to 8 or 9000' regularly. If you seldom go down in altitude you'll not need to change back. Most of this stuff is intended for 0-4500' as manufactured. Jetting it down still works for 2 or 3000' and up.

Central City's upper KOA is 8500' and a great test ground.

I rejetted my Sub water heater 4 sizes and it lights after 1 or 2 snaps at 5000' instead of half way through the cycle as before.

[Johnfort]

I run my regulator at 10" WC.

[Comanchecreek]

Originally Posted by Johnfort

You might consider jetting the furnace down a couple of sizes if you go from 5000' to 8 or 9000' regularly. If you seldom go down in altitude you'll not need to change back. Most of this stuff is intended for 0-4500' as manufactured. Jetting it down still works for 2 or 3000' and up.

Central City's upper KOA is 8500' and a great test ground.

That's my problem, spend summers in the Colorado mountains, and winters on the Texas Coast.

[Johnfort]

Ooh oh.