Electric Issue

DKRITTER · 09-20-2015, 08:49 PM

We have a new 36CKTS and got back yesterday from a 2 week trip and 5 different RV Parks without issue.

After we got home and parked the 5thW we went in to get the house started a couple of hours later we came out to unload the trailer. I had already plugged the trailer in to the 50 AMP I've had on the shop for a few years.

I turned on the AC and all hell broke loose, the Dish box started smoking, the microvave started flashing and beeping and the fridge started flashing. I ran over and unplugged the 211Z and threw the breaker in the shop. Nothing tripped in the trailer.

Came out later and started the inverter and it made a real weird noise so I turned it back off. I plugged the trailer back in and turned the breaker on. The microwave works but the fridge does not. The inverter now seems normal. Both AC units work.

Before I call/take the trailer to the dealer would someone give me some insight into what might have happened and what it will take to correct it?

Thanks

**wmtire** · 09-20-2015, 09:50 PM

Have you plugged into the 50 amp outlet at your house before? It sounds like you got 240 volts possibly.

If you don't have the 50 amp wired correctly for 120/240 volt , as per this link....you most likely have done some damage.

http://www.myrv.us/electric/

You have to have four wires, and the the TWO 120 volt hot legs (that are always kept as separate legs in the RV to keep from getting 240 volts on a circuit), One neutral, and one ground wire..all correctly wired or it's a bad thing.

Click the 50 amp tab as well as the outlet testing tab in the link provided. It will show you the voltages and No voltages you should get from the four wires/positions in order to be correct.

If the outlet isn't wired correct, and you shot 120 volts down either a neutral or ground wire, then the RV most likely received 240 volts on a circuit, and fried some electrical things. Usually always the converter is toast.

**wmtire** · 09-20-2015, 10:13 PM

Here are some wiring schematics to check:

DKRITTER · 09-20-2015, 10:30 PM

I'm not sure it's the shop outlet, I had a surge protecter hooked up to it and this trailer had been hooked up to it for a couple of weeks. This is the 3rd trailer to be connected and I've never had an issue.

Wouldn't something trip somewhere? None of the fuses or curcuit breakers tripped.

I'll call an electrician and have it verified.

ret2006 · 09-21-2015, 05:00 AM

Saw something like that happen at a campground once when a motor home plugged in to the 50 AMP. Happens that an electrician had been cleaning the receptacle out after a flood and didn't wire the neutral correctly. Sounds like an open neutral.

DKRITTER · 09-21-2015, 06:22 AM

What does "Open Neutral" mean?

What is the consequence of that?

ret2006 · 09-21-2015, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKRITTER

What does "Open Neutral" mean?

What is the consequence of that?

I am not an electrician but from what I am told if the neutral wire in a 240 volt line is not attached or working, then it won't split the two legs of a 50 AMP set-up to 120 volts on each leg. Instead you get the full 240 volts to your RV. NOT GOOD. Surely there is an electrician on here that can explain it better than I.
Main reason I have a hard wired Progressive HW50C electrical management system.

DKRITTER · 09-21-2015, 08:01 PM

I have an appointment to bring the trailer in Wednesday they were afraid it would be to much for a mobile tech.

I had an electrician stop by who lives in the neighberhood and he checked the power. All of the power from the shop is fine, the surge protector was fine.

He found an open neutral in the power cord where it connects to the trailer. So it looks like a bad cord. I have no idea what damage it has done to the trailer, very concerned with the gremlins that could be setting up residence in the wiring.

steelpony5555 · 09-21-2015, 10:09 PM

Check the plug and wiring of your 50 amp wire at both ends....if it is a straight plug there is a lot of weight that hangs on it and if the wire pulls loose then it can touch and send 240v into your trailer....mine did that but it was the neutral that came loose but it made everything act crazy...nothing blew but I imagine if it was the power side that came loose it could have really caused havoc.....
If you find that to be the problem then get a 90 degree dog bone to take the strain off the cable......

**wmtire** · 09-22-2015, 08:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKRITTER

I have an appointment to bring the trailer in Wednesday they were afraid it would be to much for a mobile tech.

I had an electrician stop by who lives in the neighberhood and he checked the power. All of the power from the shop is fine, the surge protector was fine.

He found an open neutral in the power cord where it connects to the trailer. So it looks like a bad cord. I have no idea what damage it has done to the trailer, very concerned with the gremlins that could be setting up residence in the wiring.

Thanks for posting what you have found out so far, and please let us know what the dealer says. This way, we all learn in order to help out others in the future with similar problems.

I found this article about an open neutral on a 50 amp service. This sounds kind of like what happened to you, and the fact you had to turn on a few things before it all started going screwy.

Open Neutral

EDIT: This quote is from our fellow member and electrical safety guru, Mike Sokol. You can find it here on his No-Shock-Zone website:

http://www.noshockzone.org/rv-electr...80%93-outlets/

Mike Sokol says:
August 4, 2011 at 7:43 pm
Yes, open neutrals can produce all sorts of strange voltage and current loop effects. And the same sort of condition you witnessed can easily happen in an RV with a 50 amp 120/240 volt plug. If the neutral connection opens up due to a corroded contact or broken wire, then the 120/120 incoming voltage can swing to 60/180 or 20/220 volts, or whatever it feels like depending on the imbalance of the RV loads. I have heard of one RV owner who had a shared satellite coax feed wire to the RV beside it. But his neutral line opened up, so now the shield of the coax cable became the neutral return to the second RV from the first RV with the open neutral connection. They said that the coax cable got hot enough to melt the insulation off the outside, which I don’t doubt a bit. That’s why it’s even more important for owners of large RVs with 120/240 volt 50 amp shore power plugs to make sure their connectors are properly maintained, and the campsite pedestal has the proper voltages and grounds. Really bad (expensive and dangerous) things can happen if you ignore electrical safety rules.
Mike
Reply

steelpony5555 · 09-22-2015, 12:45 PM

Probably not the cord itself but in the straight plug to the trailer. Most can be taken apart and just reattached. Then get the 90 degree dog bone off Amazon or EBay.

Sterlingsilver · 09-22-2015, 08:10 PM

I had a wire pull loose inside one connector of my shore power cable. I was fortunate to notice the wire jacket pulling free of the plug. I was amazed that the cable and connectors were all not well torqued down and fixed it before using it.

DKRITTER · 09-23-2015, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steelpony5555

Probably not the cord itself but in the straight plug to the trailer. Most can be taken apart and just reattached. Then get the 90 degree dog bone off Amazon or EBay.

The Open Netrual was in the cord itself. Brand new cord.

Sterlingsilver · 09-23-2015, 06:30 PM

I use an internal Surge Guard. It checks the neutral and will tell you and not connect if shore power is not correct. Strongly recommended.

DKRITTER · 09-24-2015, 06:24 AM

I've had the external (38450) Surge Guard for years. Since the problem was in the cord where it connects to the trailer, it didn't help.

I've looked at switching to a hard wired system and think I will. If I had an internal Surge Guard it would have protected the trailer from all this.

**jmsokol** · 09-24-2015, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKRITTER

I've had the external (38450) Surge Guard for years. Since the problem was in the cord where it connects to the trailer, it didn't help.

I've looked at switching to a hard wired system and think I will. If I had an internal Surge Guard it would have protected the trailer from all this.

While an external Surge Guard can detect power problems upstream of itself (the power pedestal), as you note it can't detect or protect your RV from a downstream malfunction. So, a problem in the shore power cord between the portable Surge Guard and your RV can result in a dangerous voltage condition, especially a hot-skin voltage. Shore power and extension cords lead a rough life, so regular cleaning and inspection of them is very important to keeping you and your RV safe from electrical problems.

Mike Sokol
The No~Shock~Zone

TURBS · 09-24-2015, 07:55 AM

Another good case for a hardwired ems from proggresive!

TURBS
08 duramax tuned n modded
2011 32bhok Sabre
2015 camping "27 nights"

Sterlingsilver · 09-24-2015, 07:59 AM

When I purchased my internal Surge Guard, I was concerned about just this kind of situation. I also worried about theft and setup convenience. I have moved this unit to each new camper I've purchased. Only down side is it hums for awhile after it energizes. I also have the wired remote for it mounted on my switch panel. All of this came from a campground where lightning hit a pedestal feeding 2 campers. One had a Surge Guard which exploded but saved the camper. The other camper lost everything electrical and was stuck there for weeks until parts could be delivered.

DKRITTER · 10-03-2015, 03:02 PM

Well nothing really to update. We took the trailer in on Wednesday Sept. 23rd they said they would get to it within a week and let us know. As you can tell it's been over a week and they haven't looked at it yet. Hopefully Monday the 5th we might know something.

We have had multiple RV's and still today it boggles my mind that a RV dealer can be so far off base. If I ran my business that way I would have been bankrupt years ago.

**jmsokol** · 10-03-2015, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DKRITTER

Well nothing really to update. We took the trailer in on Wednesday Sept. 23rd they said they would get to it within a week and let us know. As you can tell it's been over a week and they haven't looked at it yet. Hopefully Monday the 5th we might know something.

It seems that electrical troubleshooting at many RV dealerships takes way too long. Sometimes it's because there's only one "guy" who does electric. While at others it's simply because they don't understand basic electrical troubleshooting. I've pitched the idea of having large RV dealerships hire me to provide training classes on troubleshooting (something I do for the pro-sound industry already), but it seems that nobody wants to invest in training their own technicians.

Mike Sokol
The No~Shock~Zone

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