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Old 03-19-2018, 04:01 PM   #1
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Lippert Hydraulic Motor

Mine has been giving me intermittent problems until this weekend, when it just refused to work. It's the DC motor that actually turns the pump, and I get voltage at both leads on the motor, depending on which way I attempt to move it. All I get is the dead starter relay click sound though - no actual motor engagement.

I was able to move the slides enough over the weekend, although I sure wouldn't want to have to use a drill to do a full retract - was slow going!

Anything I should look at before pulling the motor off and getting it rebuilt? I looked into getting a new one, and they appear to only come as a complete hydraulic unit. Thanks.
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:06 PM   #2
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Did you call and talk to Lippert? I have had good luck dealing with them. That's what I would do before tearing the motor apart. Just a thought
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Old 03-19-2018, 06:48 PM   #3
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I did last time this problem reared it's head, and they suggested a motor as well. Then it magically started working again (PFM) and I went about life knowing I had a land mine waiting. Now I'm stationary, it's not working, so I think I'll take it in for repair.

Although I knew I'm getting power to the motor, I just double checked the three grey breakers and they all appear to be good - none of them tripped. Still 13.4 vdc at the motor, no voltage drop when pushing the button to run it.
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:11 AM   #4
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Talked to Lippert today, and they verified that if there is voltage at the motor, it's the motor that's bad. $800 replacement. Will see if I can get it rebuilt first - took it off and out of the case, looks like the brushes are replaceable if you pull the bearings off. Lot's of black dust inside, so maybe that's the issue.
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Old 03-20-2018, 10:36 AM   #5
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I'm not saying the motor isn't the issue as you really didn't comment on additional voltage test other than you have voltage at both sides of the motor depending on which way you push the button.

Bear in mind, you need a ground path for the voltage (either direction) for the motor to run as well. This ground path is often accomplished through the push button switch. (just like on an automobile window motor) or sometimes relays.

Make sure you explore all avenues before you just start replacing parts.

Now that it is off, have you tried applying 12v and a ground directly at the motor wires?
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Old 03-20-2018, 11:14 AM   #6
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Yeah, I did connect it directly to the motor, just as a final check. Looking at the motor, I'd guess it's either a broken wire between the windings and the back of the case, or the brushes. Will be taking it to a motor shop later today, and have an ebay replacement ready to order just in case. They're half price for new/cosmetic damage ones there.
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Old 03-20-2018, 02:01 PM   #7
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I am not trying to negate 5picker's suggestions. You said there is a lot of black dust inside the motor housing. How old is you RV? The brushes may have reached their end of life. Depending on the rate of usage and length and thickness of a new brush it should last 5 years or more. If the brushes got wet or are flawed in production they will disintegrate fairly quickly. Depending on the size of the brush, some have the mfgr's part number printed on the side.

Carbon brushes are graded by hardness, there should be a number stamped into the end or a spot of colored paint where the wire attaches. This number or paint color signifies the hardness. If you change the brushes, buy the next grade of hardness. What you need to keep in mind is you don't want to get the brushes too hard that they start eating into the commutator (the part of the motor the brushes ride against on the armature). Also make sure the brushes haven't worn down to the point they damaged the commutator. Depending on how much the commutator is worn it may be dressed or you have to replace the armature. Another thing to check is the bearings or bushings. If it's like any I've seen before the motor is made like the older starter motors used in cars and trucks. There might be a bearing on the shaft end and a bushing on the commutator end. Make sure you use dry air to blow the carbon dust out of the motor housing and windings, otherwise you will have a lot of sparking (tracking) and extra heat build up inside the motor. Grease and oil on the brush will break down the brush.

I did maintenance on 2x 600vdc electric motors for 26 years. Each motor had 80 brushes. After the first full year I changed the brushes as needed once every 3 months. The brushes were 1.25 inches wide, 3/4 inch thick and 2 inches long on the longest side. They would wear down to 1 inch in length in a year. These motors ran continuously 10 to 14 hours a day, 6 days a week.
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Old 03-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #8
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Thanks for the information. I did break it all down, and it appears that at a minimum the brushes are shot. They are unevenly worn, and one is sticky - once depressed into it's slot, won't push back out, like the spring is stuck. The brush leads are actually welded to the terminal bolt, so it looks to be difficult at best to remove and replace them. I've ordered a new motor (Ebay ftw), as I'd like to have it operating again soon, and I'm going to see if I can track down the parts for this one. Hopefully the armature isn't shorted or open, as it doesn't appear to be worn badly, and I'll end up with a spare. If anyone has a parts source, or rebuilder that has rebuilt one of these, I'd appreciate the point of contact.

This is a 2013 fifth wheel, so not terribly old, but not new by any stretch of the imagination.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:11 PM   #9
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For anyone that stumbles upon this thread in the future, this is a company that rebuilds these motors. Compared to $800 new, they are $265. I'll be sending mine to them so that I have a spare in the future. When this thing first started giving me problems, it was midnight, raining, and I was trying to unhook so I could call it a night. Having a spare sure would have been nice!

Lippert 167576 RV Motor Repair | Motor Repair & Rewinds | Eurton Electric
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:38 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aknavy View Post
For anyone that stumbles upon this thread in the future, this is a company that rebuilds these motors. Compared to $800 new, they are $265. I'll be sending mine to them so that I have a spare in the future. When this thing first started giving me problems, it was midnight, raining, and I was trying to unhook so I could call it a night. Having a spare sure would have been nice!

Lippert 167576 RV Motor Repair | Motor Repair & Rewinds | Eurton Electric
Good find. I know that $800 price is outrageous as that motor isn't a proprietary item. Probably the same used on hydraulic snowplows for pickups.
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Old 03-20-2018, 05:58 PM   #11
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Yeah, the price is absolutely ridiculous. I found the actual supplier of the motor, but haven't tried to get parts from them yet. Of course, the motor part number doesn't match any listed on their site. Now that I have a rebuilder identified, I'm gonna see how far I can tear it down without damaging anything else before mailing it off for repair. I think that I can pull the brushes and terminal lugs out in one piece, and if so, I'll pursue replacement parts. If not, then off to rebuild.
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:58 AM   #12
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So, I had a little time this morning, and since I wasn't afraid of destroying anything, I finished tearing down the motor. No easy way to get the brushes completely out, as their welded to the terminal posts, but I was able to pull them out of their slots and loosen up the internal housing. I then gave the whole thing an isopropyl alcohol bath, complete with scrubbing, blew it all out with a compressor, and reassembled. The biggest issue pre-tear down that I could find was two brushes were sticking and not riding the springs correctly, and this freed them up. Put it back on and this sucker seems to run like a race car now - slides are much faster. I've still got my replacement on order, and will put it on and keep this one for a spare, no rebuild at the moment. Added bonus - I was able to get the broken hex bit the previous owner left me in the manual override.
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Old 03-21-2018, 10:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aknavy View Post
So, I had a little time this morning, and since I wasn't afraid of destroying anything, I finished tearing down the motor. No easy way to get the brushes completely out, as their welded to the terminal posts, but I was able to pull them out of their slots and loosen up the internal housing. I then gave the whole thing an isopropyl alcohol bath, complete with scrubbing, blew it all out with a compressor, and reassembled. The biggest issue pre-tear down that I could find was two brushes were sticking and not riding the springs correctly, and this freed them up. Put it back on and this sucker seems to run like a race car now - slides are much faster. I've still got my replacement on order, and will put it on and keep this one for a spare, no rebuild at the moment. Added bonus - I was able to get the broken hex bit the previous owner left me in the manual override.


Good work. Thanks for the feedback on what you have discovered. This is good information
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Old 03-22-2018, 12:06 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aknavy View Post
So, I had a little time this morning, and since I wasn't afraid of destroying anything, I finished tearing down the motor. No easy way to get the brushes completely out, as their welded to the terminal posts, but I was able to pull them out of their slots and loosen up the internal housing. I then gave the whole thing an isopropyl alcohol bath, complete with scrubbing, blew it all out with a compressor, and reassembled. The biggest issue pre-tear down that I could find was two brushes were sticking and not riding the springs correctly, and this freed them up. Put it back on and this sucker seems to run like a race car now - slides are much faster. I've still got my replacement on order, and will put it on and keep this one for a spare, no rebuild at the moment. Added bonus - I was able to get the broken hex bit the previous owner left me in the manual override.
After you get the new one in have the old one rebuilt. You didn't say if the commutator showed any sign of arcing, but the stuck brushes are a sign of excessive heat caused by the arcing.
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Old 03-22-2018, 07:11 PM   #15
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I probably will get it rebuilt eventually, but won't be in quite the hurry I was in. It didn't have any evidence of arcing, but there was a lot of dust in the brush area, as well as some pieces of a rubber o-ring that may have contributed to the stuck brushes. For the time being, it'll go in the spare parts bin.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:03 PM   #16
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Good to hear. I'm still concerned about arcing though. The commutator should be close to baby bottom smooth so if you run your finger on the copper bars you should not feel anything. I've seen times that the only sign of arcing is right on the edge of the copper. The reason I concerned is if there was arcing and you put new brushes in the damaged areas will wear the brushes down quickly. Also once the pitting from arcs begin they will continue to arc and get worse.
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Old 03-23-2018, 03:04 PM   #17
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aknavy,

I can't find the ebay listing for the half price cosmetic damage motor. I'd like to make a note for future reference. Can you tell us the seller's name, or the listing title, so I can find it?

Thanks
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Old 03-23-2018, 04:00 PM   #18
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This is the one I bought:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lci-Lippert...53.m1438.l2649

Seems they have some used ones as well.
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:05 PM   #19
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I didn't see this thread until I had already started one where I asked a question regarding the Lippert hydraulic unit on my 2013 Cedar Creek RLSA. My pump motor has been getting progressively worse about kicking out on the motor reset after several seconds of run time. It occasionally will pop the breaker on the electric bus strip which requires me to push it back in. Sometimes it takes 15 minutes just to get my slides in and all my jacks retracted. Aggravating to say the least.

I have removed the motor from the pump and after a very partial disassembly...I only pulled the end cap off the motor to take a look at the four brushes...they don't look too bad. They are all free in their slots to move and look in fair shape. Of course there is a fair amount of dust within. Is sending the motor back for repair (per the previous link) the best option? Maybe try to find a local 12 volt motor shop that could take a look? It would be nice if there were some more info on the motor housing.
The only info on this motor housing is as follows:
[RoHS]
414849
12VDC
022012
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Old 03-23-2018, 08:26 PM   #20
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From what I could find, the motor is manufactured by Parker, but I haven't called to see if I could get parts. My local electric motor shop didn't want to touch it because the brush leads are welded to the terminals, but you may have better luck. The link I posted is only (I know, relative term) $265 to rebuild it. Compared to $800, it's a deal.
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