LP Propane Shock

[spock123]

Well I put a electric space heater in the basement in the C/C and I may put one in the living room, I can afford a little more on my electric bill. I live in Warsaw,NC and a 20lb tank was $12.50 and had been that price for a long time, the propane guy did not make much money on small tanks, just did it as a service to people that spent more money at his store. It's going to be cold here next week, it may snow or at least I hope so, if it's going to be cold it may as well snow. I love snow cream. The man I buy LP from is not trying to get rich off of me, he is just passing his costs off to me and I don't blame him or anyone for that matter, I blame the weather, IT IS SOOOOOOO COLD!!!!!! I went outside wearing just flipflops on my feet and it sure was cold on my feet. It will not be long before I will be at Myrtle Beach.

[Weezer]

Can someone tell me the difference in propane and butane? Is there a difference?

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Can someone tell me the difference in propane and butane? Is there a difference?

In Layman terms:

Propane & Butane - AvantiGas

[2012WhiteSolera]

Actually thats partly true. Fracking has been around for over a hundred years. That in conjuction with horizontal drilling invented by a gentleman from Pineville, WV in 2007, allowed exploration companies to tap the vast amount of fossil fuels previously locked deeper in the earth. The problem today is, the uninformed arn't aware that fracking was first patented in 1865, thats right, over 149 years ago. But if you were to read current publications, you would think it was recently discovered, and is the scourge of the enviroment. Thus the delema, if we do revert back to much colder winters on a regular basis, the amounts of energy, like propane, which by the way is a byproduct of the natural gas industry, will be needed in greater supply. The short of this is simple, continued colder winters will cause propane customers to always pay more, because it cannot be stored in the ground like natural gas is until needed in the winter months. One work around would be to drill more for nat gas, but that varies state by state based on the politicians. Canada has huge fossil fuel reserves that they are begging to export to us, but that again involves politics. So, until that is addressed, the people who use propane as their main heat source will continue to pay much inflated prices if climate change persists on the down side. It truly is a supply and demand issue, which this years cold winter has brought to attention of all. Wish there was a happier solution, but there isn't.

[ourflat]

This is a propane infrastructure issue as indicated earlier in the thread due to the hid demand of propane. As like the inelastic effects of gasoline so will the prices of propane be affected. The price will rise but as soon as demand lessens so will the price drop to low prices. There is an abundant of gas in this country just not enough infrastructure to meet transportation needs during extreme high demand to the power companies, gas stations and our homes. As mentioned earlier, I don't believe the oil companies are willing to invest into additional infrastructure unless they can be assured they can recoup this cost (plus profit) from the folks on Capital Hill!

We live in a capitalist society...

Frank

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by wmtire

In Layman terms:

Propane & Butane - AvantiGas

Hmmm, so propane is better for outside, low temp storage. Now I'm wondering if Dad actually uses butane, or if he's using propane since it's a huge outside storage tank.

oh well, I'm sure he and his supply/delivery guy knows.


I think also that people here in the South just use "butane" as a generic term for "that stuff you use for heating or grilling that is in tanks".

[B47]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Hmmm, so propane is better for outside, low temp storage. Now I'm wondering if Dad actually uses butane, or if he's using propane since it's a huge outside storage tank.

oh well, I'm sure he and his supply/delivery guy knows.


I think also that people here in the South just use "butane" as a generic term for "that stuff you use for heating or grilling that is in tanks".

I guess it depends on many things,including where you're from, but being raised in Upstate NY,the only times I remember seeing or hearing "butane" used was in describing those early portable torches and cigarette lighters.

And of course,we didn't use propane like it is in the South - heating oil was how the majority of homes were heated. Still remember seeing the fuel oil delivery man pulling the hose from the truck to the home delivery point though the snow.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Weezer

I think also that people here in the South just use "butane" as a generic term for "that stuff you use for heating or grilling that is in tanks".

Yep. kind of like all cola/sodas are called Cokes.

I called my propane refill place awhile ago, they have went up about $5 per 20 lb refill. I looked at the Amerigas exchange cage at the store across from me and they have went up only about $2.50 so far................but in summation the prices are rising.

[rockfordroo]

When the weather turns cold, everything goes up. Check out the increase in the spot price of natural gas recently:

Natural Gas - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

[MillerTime]

Originally Posted by 2012WhiteSolera

Actually thats partly true. Fracking has been around for over a hundred years. That in conjuction with horizontal drilling invented by a gentleman from Pineville, WV in 2007, allowed exploration companies to tap the vast amount of fossil fuels previously locked deeper in the earth. The problem today is, the uninformed arn't aware that fracking was first patented in 1865, thats right, over 149 years ago. But if you were to read current publications, you would think it was recently discovered, and is the scourge of the enviroment. Thus the delema, if we do revert back to much colder winters on a regular basis, the amounts of energy, like propane, which by the way is a byproduct of the natural gas industry, will be needed in greater supply. The short of this is simple, continued colder winters will cause propane customers to always pay more, because it cannot be stored in the ground like natural gas is until needed in the winter months. One work around would be to drill more for nat gas, but that varies state by state based on the politicians. Canada has huge fossil fuel reserves that they are begging to export to us, but that again involves politics. So, until that is addressed, the people who use propane as their main heat source will continue to pay much inflated prices if climate change persists on the down side. It truly is a supply and demand issue, which this years cold winter has brought to attention of all. Wish there was a happier solution, but there isn't.

Thats strange. We've been drilling horizontaly at least since the late 90's. I was trying to get on with Slumberger in 2000 in the directional drilling field and my brother in law was a MWD hand and directional driller since he got out of college in 2005. But thats in the Oklahoma, Texas, Kansas and Arkasas area. Maybe the east coast is a little slower to ketch up.

oops. forgot to check mark that stupid box again!

[MillerTime]

Correction- rigzone says that horizontal drilling has been around since the 20's.

But the technique that is used mainly today- going down and then slipping, or turning sideways, has been around since the late 70's.

[RKR]

Directional drilling has been around for years but it wasn't cost effective. It was primarily used off shore to drill multiple wells from one spot.
In the last 8 years or so it had become feasible and technology has really advanced.
We are currently drilling primarily oil wells in the Eagle Ford horizontally , some are almost 2 miles deep and have a 2 mile lateral section. They typically drill 3 to 4 wells from one pad which is very cost effective.
It's good to see natural gas start making a comeback. The gas market crashed in 2009 due to to much production. It has been around $2 per MCF for several years now. It closed at $5.18 yesterday . It becomes profitable to drill for gas at around $5 to $6 per MCF.
Since they started the Eagle Ford in 2010 most companies have been just flaring off (burning) the natural gas when they flow back the oil. The money was in the oil.
I've been in this oil patch for almost 20 years and have been through several booms and busts. Drill baby drill !

[Herk7769]

Originally Posted by B47

Still remember seeing the fuel oil delivery man pulling the hose from the truck to the home delivery point though the snow.

I remember it as if it was yesterday.


Oh wait....


It WAS yesterday!
$700 bucks of Good Ole Number 2

[B47]

Originally Posted by herk7769

I remember it as if it was yesterday.


Oh wait....


It WAS yesterday!
$700 bucks of Good Ole Number 2

Yep - and it was no easy task getting rid of the old oil tank in the basement after it was no longer needed.

There were a lot of EPA regs regarding how the oil tank could be removed and discarded.

[Ford Idaho]

Sawdust (Or. early to mid 60's)furnace did you ever see/use one?
And yes there was the coal (Copeland lumber) and oil fired ones wood stoves and fire places, today it is a pellet stove.

[mikepizz]

just filled up one of my 7.5 gallon propane tanks in the rv park we are staying at this weekend. It was completely empty. cost was 30 dollars. hope this helps.

[rockfordroo]

It's still supply and demand. While there's some, there isn't a lot of storage for natural gas. Use goes up when the weather gets cold, they dip into their storage and then the price soars.

[B47]

Originally Posted by mikepizz

just filled up one of my 7.5 gallon propane tanks in the rv park we are staying at this weekend. It was completely empty. cost was 30 dollars. hope this helps.

Haven't refill one lately,but $30 for 7.5 gallons doesn't seem too high to me considering all that's going on right now.

[Weezer]

Originally Posted by B47

I guess it depends on many things,including where you're from, but being raised in Upstate NY,the only times I remember seeing or hearing "butane" used was in describing those early portable torches and cigarette lighters.

And of course,we didn't use propane like it is in the South - heating oil was how the majority of homes were heated. Still remember seeing the fuel oil delivery man pulling the hose from the truck to the home delivery point though the snow.

Coinkydink...DH mentioned today that his grandfather used to drive one of those fuel oil trucks up in Long Island, NY. Did that until he retired. He was a licensed boat captain, his family owned a boat yard, and he drove for Park Avenue Fuel Oil.

[B47]

Originally Posted by Weezer

Coinkydink...DH mentioned today that his grandfather used to drive one of those fuel oil trucks up in Long Island, NY. Did that until he retired. He was a licensed boat captain, his family owned a boat yard, and he drove for Park Avenue Fuel Oil.

I'm guessing that grandfather didn't get along with the rest of the family

Those fuel oil trucks were a common sight around our area in the wintertime. One of the local ones sold and serviced furnaces,etc. in the summertime to keep things going. Their yard was next to the railroad tracks and you could watch them off-loading the oil from the tank cars into the trucks.