2013 Encounter

[Roll]

Originally Posted by go6car

The Thor Challenger 37KT (similar floorplan to yours) actually has a residential fridge. I think it's ~11'.

Here's some pictures: New Thor Motor Coach Challenger for sale in Alvarado TX | 2013 Thor Motor Coach Challenger W/3 Slides 37KT Model RV for Sale Class A For Sale from Motor Home Specialist in Alvarado Texas

Good to know if you ever wanted to swap out some day.

Thanks Go-Six.

The floor plan is similar, better maybe, but that looks larger than ours. In the Encounter the fridge sits on a box that contains furnace warm air vents and maybe the furnace since I haven't found that. The fridge is also narrow.

I could find the specs and check the available room. Would also have to reroute and/or move any hardware located underneath.

Maybe some day...for now I have a number of things I would like to change before I start trying to fit a residential fridge.

[1nshort]

Originally Posted by go6car

The Thor Challenger 37KT (similar floorplan to yours) actually has a residential fridge. I think it's ~11'.

Here's some pictures: New Thor Motor Coach Challenger for sale in Alvarado TX | 2013 Thor Motor Coach Challenger W/3 Slides 37KT Model RV for Sale Class A For Sale from Motor Home Specialist in Alvarado Texas

Good to know if you ever wanted to swap out some day.

We looked at one of those units at the Hershey show. They had linoleum floors, the bedroom to dining and bedroom to bathroom doors were hollow sliding doors. Construction and finish were not as good as the Encounter. They do not use the azdel wall panels but use laminated fiberglass. We traded in a Thor for the Encounter. It was 9 yrs old 35ft Hurricane. At 8 yrs started to delaminate at back bedroom, and at 9 years started to delaminate by passenger front area.
One thing about rconsumer refrig...would need an inverter to run when not on park power so u would have a bigger battery draw, so 4, 6volt batts would be a must. Boondocking would suffer, would have to run gen more freq or beef up solar panels.

[1nshort]

Originally Posted by Roll

Thanks Go-Six.

The floor plan is similar, better maybe, but that looks larger than ours. In the Encounter the fridge sits on a box that contains furnace warm air vents and maybe the furnace since I haven't found that. The fridge is also narrow.

I could find the specs and check the available room. Would also have to reroute and/or move any hardware located underneath.

Maybe some day...for now I have a number of things I would like to change before I start trying to fit a residential fridge.

Actually it is identical to the Encounter 37TZ floor plan. We looked at the two in Hershey. Went back and forth they scaled the kitchen side back to accomodate the refer. It is about the same size as the side byside door evaporative. See my other post for other details. The units are also about 6 k more than ours. We did not like some of the details.

[go6car]

Good info. Hard to tell from just the pictures since it looks visually similar to that Encounter floorplan.

Hope you have better luck w/the Encounter than with your other rig for sure!

[1nshort]

go6car,
The azdel panels that Coachmen uses in their wall construction eliminates that particular problem. My research indicates in the class 'A' arena, only Coachmen and Winnebago use those panels. The units like Thor uses a glue to bond their fiberglass to the substrate and that is the weak link that separates. A little bit of moisture starts it then it is aggravated by repeated heat/cool cycles.

[go6car]

completely agree on the Azdel. I think Winnie just started to use it recently. Coachmen said they've never had any cases of delam with it, which was impressive. And, just another reason I love the Encounter!

[Roll]

Originally Posted by 1nshort

go6car,
The azdel panels that Coachmen uses in their wall construction eliminates that particular problem. My research indicates in the class 'A' arena, only Coachmen and Winnebago use those panels. The units like Thor uses a glue to bond their fiberglass to the substrate and that is the weak link that separates. A little bit of moisture starts it then it is aggravated by repeated heat/cool cycles.

So for me, this is the million dollar question. When you say Coachmen is using the azdel panels, do you mean the old Coachmen (good quality product with decent QC) or the Forest River product, the quality of which has been shown to be hit or miss.

Roll

[go6car]

It's been used in RVs, in general, at least since 2006, per the Azdel corporate site, so there's a chance it was used prior to the Forest River acquisition in 2008...

• PROVEN TECHNOLOGY AZDEL has effectively replaced Lauan Plywood in the construction of RV's since 2006. Today over 40 million square feet of AZDEL's SuperLite® RVx Composite Panels are on the road and continue to be used by leading manufacturers of Recreational vehicles. AZDEL is enabling the transformation of the RV industry by providing longer lasting and trouble free engineered composite materials. The future of RV construction is available today, so why settle for anything less?

[Roll]

1nshort,

I was looking for confirmation that it is used in our coaches. Haven't been able to confirm that. Do you know where is says Coachmen uses the Azdel walls?

[go6car]

Roll- it's also on the Coachmen site (at the top, under "About Coachmen RV", then on the drop-down menu under "Leading the Way").

I know my 2013 definitely has it. From what I understand, they've been using it for a while now.

Leading the Way - Coachmen RV Features

[1nshort]

Coachmen has been using azdel panels since 2008 and Forestriver since 2010. One of the best things is there is no outgassing (formaldehide). It has a 2R insulation advantage over the old style foam fiberglass laminate and it is stronger.

[Roll]

Originally Posted by 1nshort

Coachmen has been using azdel panels since 2008 and Forestriver since 2010. One of the best things is there is no outgassing (formaldehide). It has a 2R insulation advantage over the old style foam fiberglass laminate and it is stronger.

Interesting you bring up outgassing; I had forgotten all about that. We had horrible smells in the first season. Over time it stopped. It could only have been outgassing. Coachmen confirmed and also advised it would go away given some time.

This will be our third season starting as soon as the weather breaks. If any of the odor remains I can't smell it and I have a pretty good nose.

They said it was from the carpet, wood, and the glue used on both.

I suppose we are the only couple that had an outgassing problem with our Encounter?

If that's the case I wonder if we have fiberglass walls.

Roll

[Roll]

Well I do have the Azdel sidewalls.

I spoke to Coachmen. When FR took over all class A's were constructed with Azdel.

He confirmed again the outgassing is normal and attributable to the interior wood work, carpet and glue as I mentioned. I may have had more (odor) than others on the board here because I don’t have the hardwood cabinets.

Letting the coach sit out in the sun during hot weather brings out the odor and we did, the first year, store it outside where it sat without ventilation, for weeks. Coincidently that was when the worst of it happened. Coming up on our third season, the coach is fine now. I do store it indoors now.

Roll

[1nshort]

Roll,
With the chalet package we have only a small amount of carpeting due to the tile and yes, with the solid wood instead hardwood laminate, leads to practically no outgassing. It is the glue in the hardwood surfaced ply, carpet, and for those that do not have the azdel panels..the luan in their walls that is the source of outgassing. It is the formaldihyde in the glues that cause it. It does leach out and disappear over time.
OK in the really stupid engineering realm...the couch reading lights in the passenger side slide, only can be used when the overhead lights are on. I rewired it in 45 minutes (took pictures). Now the overhead lights and reading lights are independent. I will put together a post with pictures, instructions and schematic soon.

Denis

[go6car]

Originally Posted by 1nshort

OK in the really stupid engineering realm...the couch reading lights in the passenger side slide, only can be used when the overhead lights are on. I rewired it in 45 minutes (took pictures). Now the overhead lights and reading lights are independent. I will put together a post with pictures, instructions and schematic soon.

Interesting - my couch is on the other side (driver side) and the lights above it are independent. My stupid engineering award has to do with the bathroom (I have a split bath). There was no light switch where the toilet is. You'd have to reach up to the actual light, itself, to turn it on. So, we actually had to have a switch installed. I still can't believe we had to do that!. I also keep reminding myself how minor everything was that we even had to do and then I feel better!

Denis - are you planning to switch those lights above the couch to LED as well? I'm so anxious to do this (and replace with soft white LEDs everywhere possible). I really don't like the fluorescent lights in the bedroom either, now that I think of it...

[Roll]

Originally Posted by 1nshort

Roll,
With the chalet package we have only a small amount of carpeting due to the tile and yes, with the solid wood instead hardwood laminate, leads to practically no outgassing. It is the glue in the hardwood surfaced ply, carpet, and for those that do not have the azdel panels..the luan in their walls that is the source of outgassing. It is the formaldihyde in the glues that cause it. It does leach out and disappear over time.
OK in the really stupid engineering realm...the couch reading lights in the passenger side slide, only can be used when the overhead lights are on. I rewired it in 45 minutes (took pictures). Now the overhead lights and reading lights are independent. I will put together a post with pictures, instructions and schematic soon.

Denis

Coachmen claims the azdel would not make a difference in outgassing; only interior materials they say, will be noticed during the process. They denied any formaldehyde was used in any product. I do have more carpet which added to the problem and I have linoleum floors which are also likely glued down. These are the primary weight savings items that make the difference in CCC I imagine.

I didn't have the reading light problem. Mine were wired independently from the factory.

On the other hand nearly every switch was wired left to right and right to left; left switch worked right side light, etc. The power visors were mismatched, so were bathroom lights, and as I've said before, forward on the power drivers seat moved the seat backward, up was down, and tilt up tilted down. Was irritating to manage while driving.

Except for the drivers seat the other mismatched switches were quite easy to fix. The switch for the drivers seat was a unique two piece clamp type of connector similar to a clamshell with wires coming in from all directions. With 8 seat directions/16 wires it was confusing but through trial and error it's working fine now.

[1nshort]

Originally Posted by Roll

Coachmen claims the azdel would not make a difference in outgassing; only interior materials they say, will be noticed during the process. They denied any formaldehyde was used in any product. I do have more carpet which added to the problem and I have linoleum floors which are also likely glued down. These are the primary weight savings items that make the difference in CCC I imagine.

I didn't have the reading light problem. Mine were wired independently from the factory.

On the other hand nearly every switch was wired left to right and right to left; left switch worked right side light, etc. The power visors were mismatched, so were bathroom lights, and as I've said before, forward on the power drivers seat moved the seat backward, up was down, and tilt up tilted down. Was irritating to manage while driving.

Except for the drivers seat the other mismatched switches were quite easy to fix. The switch for the drivers seat was a unique two piece clamp type of connector similar to a clamshell with wires coming in from all directions. With 8 seat directions/16 wires it was confusing but through trial and error it's working fine now.

Well, it looks like they had a regressive change in the 2013TZ. When I called the factory, they told me that is the way it is wired. So if there are any 2013TZ oners that have the couch ligt problem, I will send them complete instructions.
Coachmen may not realize it but the bonding agent between the layers of ply contains formaldehyde as well as a lot of industrial adhesives, hence ot gassing lives.
Formaldehyde has not been used in over 30 years in carpeting but once again some of the adhesives used to glue the carpeting down. Another way to describe the edhesives is UREA Formaldehyde.
Denis

[1nshort]

UPDATE...Research on a couple of science sites on formaldehyde mention that there are still some carpet manufacturers out there that treat their carpeting with it. Also curtains/drapes are treated with it. One of the sites mentioned that large office buildings before occupancy use a technique called 'out baking'. They seal off a floor and raise the heat for 24 hours. Outgassing doubles for every 10 degrees the temperature rises. They come in the next day open all windows and ventelate using fans.

[Roll]

Well thanks for the clarification. The heat multiplier makes sense since our problem was the most acute after the coach had sat in the hot summer sun for a couple of weeks between uses and without ventilation.

Since then I installed the Camco covers over the kitchen and bathroom vents and now leave them open all the time, (except winter or cold nights when we are using the coach).

I recommend them if you don't already have a pair installed. At $30 something each well worth the money.

Roll

[1nshort]

LEDs
Light color is measured in degrees kelvin. The highher you go the 'whiter' the light color. Go too high and it llooks blue. That said, Warm White (softer) is around 2600-4500K and Soft White is around 5600-6500K. Here is good site for our halogen replacements. I have ordered 20 and 10 watt equivalent replacements of both tempsK and will post results.
http://m4products.com our overhead replacement is a g4.