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Old 05-24-2019, 08:43 AM   #1
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Does the built in charger have a automatic shut off?

Does anyone know if the built-in house battery charger in a Coachmen QB220 Leprechaun has an automatic shut off when the batteries fully charged? Unfortunately, my MH sits for long periods of time between trips and I don't want the charger to overcharge the battery and shorten its life.
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Old 05-25-2019, 08:42 AM   #2
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The converters being installed these days all come with an automatic feature unlike the converters of old. use a multimeter and test the batter charging at different times. Like after just plugging in and say a day later you should see a change.
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Old 05-25-2019, 09:07 AM   #3
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another option would be to get them fully charged and then totally disconnect them. they willhold a charge for at least a couple of months, probably longer. then go hook them back up and recharge them for a day and then disconect again. a true battery disconnect switch would make this process vey easy.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:16 AM   #4
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Does anyone know if the built-in house battery charger in a Coachmen QB220 Leprechaun has an automatic shut off when the batteries fully charged? Unfortunately, my MH sits for long periods of time between trips and I don't want the charger to overcharge the battery and shorten its life.


I would say NO, I have a Concord and it came with the garbage WFCO, they say that it canít read a load even a Parisite for 48 hrs for it to drop to Float which is 13.2 It will stay in absorption at 13.6 for as long as you have power to the coach. Also I have never seen mine go into bulk at 14.2. You can get a direct replacement made by Progessive with a charge wizard . With that your can force into any stage you want. Itís a 4 stage charger with equilazation. So your answer is NO.
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Old 05-25-2019, 10:53 AM   #5
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I would say NO, I have a Concord and it came with the garbage WFCO, they say that it canít read a load even a Parisite for 48 hrs for it to drop to Float which is 13.2 It will stay in absorption at 13.6 for as long as you have power to the coach. Also I have never seen mine go into bulk at 14.2. You can get a direct replacement made by Progessive with a charge wizard . With that your can force into any stage you want. Itís a 4 stage charger with equilazation. So your answer is NO.
How far away from your batteries is the converter mounted.

For those who have this problem with ANY converter, check the voltage at the converter and again at the batteries while charging. If you have more than 2% voltage drop upgrade the factory wire (usually #8 awg) to something larger. I went to #4 awg and charging current went up, even my old WFCO went into bulk mode when first starting to charge, and after a day or so into float.

The "skinny wire" the factory uses acts like a resistor and gives the converter false voltage readings which causes it to think the battery is charged more than it really is.

Won't say that the WFCO converters are great but they aren't as bad as many say they are. Maybe those people have never seen a bad converter like an old Magnatech that only had ONE output voltage, 13.2 v. If you wanted to "quick charge" a battery while running the generator you had to manually move a jumper (or install a separate switch) that would then up the voltage to 13.6 but if you forgot to switch it off, get out the water jug. Batteries used water like someone hiking in the desert.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:08 PM   #6
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I would say NO, I have a Concord and it came with the garbage WFCO, they say that it can’t read a load even a Parisite for 48 hrs for it to drop to Float which is 13.2 It will stay in absorption at 13.6 for as long as you have power to the coach. Also I have never seen mine go into bulk at 14.2. You can get a direct replacement made by Progessive with a charge wizard . With that your can force into any stage you want. It’s a 4 stage charger with equilazation. So your answer is NO.

While WFCO says float mode is 13.2v and normal mode is 13.6v on their chargers, correct float voltage is 2.25v-2.30v per cell. That means that 13.6 is in the correct range for float voltage as it is 2.26v per cell.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery


Anything over 2.3v per cell (13.8v for 12v battery) is overcharging and will shorten life.


I've been monitoring my battery and its condition, it's plugged in to shore power whenever we're not on the road. The battery isn't bubbling, it's not warm, and it's not losing water while sitting at 13.6v.


Battery Tender products also have float voltage between 13.3v and 13.5v.


Here's the key. The voltage needs to be higher than the 100% SOC voltage and less than the gassing voltage of 13.8v. As such, there's nothing wrong with having the battery sit at 13.6v all the time as long as the battery isn't gassing.
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Old 05-25-2019, 12:15 PM   #7
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How far away from your batteries is the converter mounted.



For those who have this problem with ANY converter, check the voltage at the converter and again at the batteries while charging. If you have more than 2% voltage drop upgrade the factory wire (usually #8 awg) to something larger. I went to #4 awg and charging current went up, even my old WFCO went into bulk mode when first starting to charge, and after a day or so into float.



The "skinny wire" the factory uses acts like a resistor and gives the converter false voltage readings which causes it to think the battery is charged more than it really is.



Won't say that the WFCO converters are great but they aren't as bad as many say they are. Maybe those people have never seen a bad converter like an old Magnatech that only had ONE output voltage, 13.2 v. If you wanted to "quick charge" a battery while running the generator you had to manually move a jumper (or install a separate switch) that would then up the voltage to 13.6 but if you forgot to switch it off, get out the water jug. Batteries used water like someone hiking in the desert.


Mine is maybe 8 feet, when the progressive was installed it went to a true 4 stage, didnít need to increase the wire size at all, that is why I say they are garbage. Also a progressive will drop to 13 .2 even reading parasites. A WFCO will never do that and it will boil your batteries. But this just my observation and opinion, also with the wizard you can put it in bulk at 14.2 anytime you want, plus it will go into equalization ever 24hours by itself great for boondockers. No comparison to a 3 stage WFCO
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
While WFCO says float mode is 13.2v and normal mode is 13.6v on their chargers, correct float voltage is 2.25v-2.30v per cell. That means that 13.6 is in the correct range for float voltage as it is 2.26v per cell.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery


Anything over 2.3v per cell (13.8v for 12v battery) is overcharging and will shorten life.


I've been monitoring my battery and its condition, it's plugged in to shore power whenever we're not on the road. The battery isn't bubbling, it's not warm, and it's not losing water while sitting at 13.6v.


Battery Tender products also have float voltage between 13.3v and 13.5v.


Here's the key. The voltage needs to be higher than the 100% SOC voltage and less than the gassing voltage of 13.8v. As such, there's nothing wrong with having the battery sit at 13.6v all the time as long as the battery isn't gassing.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to understand it. Are you saying that the Battery Tender products (which I was considering to purchase for winter maintenance charging) do not maintain at the optimal voltage of 13.6V?

If 13.6 V is optimal then once the voltage is below 13.6V the charger will kick in? At what voltage would the charger shut off?

BTW, I couldn't access the bateryuniversity link.
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Old 05-25-2019, 02:49 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
While WFCO says float mode is 13.2v and normal mode is 13.6v on their chargers, correct float voltage is 2.25v-2.30v per cell. That means that 13.6 is in the correct range for float voltage as it is 2.26v per cell.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery


Anything over 2.3v per cell (13.8v for 12v battery) is overcharging and will shorten life.


I've been monitoring my battery and its condition, it's plugged in to shore power whenever we're not on the road. The battery isn't bubbling, it's not warm, and it's not losing water while sitting at 13.6v.


Battery Tender products also have float voltage between 13.3v and 13.5v.


Here's the key. The voltage needs to be higher than the 100% SOC voltage and less than the gassing voltage of 13.8v. As such, there's nothing wrong with having the battery sit at 13.6v all the time as long as the battery isn't gassing.
The batteryuniversity link is now working.
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Old 05-25-2019, 06:15 PM   #10
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm trying to understand it. Are you saying that the Battery Tender products (which I was considering to purchase for winter maintenance charging) do not maintain at the optimal voltage of 13.6V?

If 13.6 V is optimal then once the voltage is below 13.6V the charger will kick in? At what voltage would the charger shut off?

BTW, I couldn't access the bateryuniversity link.

13.6v isn't necessarily optimal, I was just saying that it's fine for a float charge since it's below 13.8v which is where gassing begins (Overcharging). Any voltage between the 100% SOC (State of Charge) voltage, which varies but is roughly between 12.6v and 13.1v, and the gassing voltage of 13.8v is float territory. Battery Tenders have their float voltage below 13.6v but it's still high enough to do the float charge.


The chargers never "shut off", the float voltage is there to maintain charge and help battery life. If the charger were to constantly shut off, wait for the battery to drain down some, then kick back on then that would reduce battery life. Maintaining float voltage during storage is good for battery life because the battery isn't going through partial charge/discharge cycles. Those cycles reduce battery life by causing sulfation.


Hope this and the batteryuniversity link help!
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by DieselDrax View Post
While WFCO says float mode is 13.2v and normal mode is 13.6v on their chargers, correct float voltage is 2.25v-2.30v per cell. That means that 13.6 is in the correct range for float voltage as it is 2.26v per cell.


https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/...d_acid_battery


Anything over 2.3v per cell (13.8v for 12v battery) is overcharging and will shorten life.


I've been monitoring my battery and its condition, it's plugged in to shore power whenever we're not on the road. The battery isn't bubbling, it's not warm, and it's not losing water while sitting at 13.6v.


Battery Tender products also have float voltage between 13.3v and 13.5v.


Here's the key. The voltage needs to be higher than the 100% SOC voltage and less than the gassing voltage of 13.8v. As such, there's nothing wrong with having the battery sit at 13.6v all the time as long as the battery isn't gassing.


I have read all that but I still question saying float is 13.6. I donít have slightest idea why WFCO and progressive states it at 13.2. I also leave mine plugged in 24/7 and for some reason I need to add water to my bank atleast every 45 days when the charger puts out 13.6. Something is happening to it. This is why I like the Progressive charger with the Wizard. Before I bought the progressive on my old 5er. I called them they stated that float was 13.2 , I think they called 13.6 absorption, and 14.2 bulk. Plus being a 4 stage not 3 like WFCO it will go into equilazation automatically. So Iím still a little confused why both companies state there float is 13.2 not 13.6. Iím not sure if you can answer that, but I guess I would have to go with there explanation on how there chargers are set up. Thanks for the read
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:41 AM   #12
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I would say NO, I have a Concord and it came with the garbage WFCO, they say that it can’t read a load even a Parisite for 48 hrs for it to drop to Float which is 13.2 It will stay in absorption at 13.6 for as long as you have power to the coach. Also I have never seen mine go into bulk at 14.2. You can get a direct replacement made by Progessive with a charge wizard . With that your can force into any stage you want. It’s a 4 stage charger with equilazation. So your answer is NO.
There are certainly better ones out there, especially from Progressive. But I wouldn't call WFCO garbage. Mine is running at 13.2 volts right now, and has been for 2 days. This our third day on shore power. The first day it was at 13.6.
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Old 05-26-2019, 06:55 AM   #13
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I bought a BM2 Bluetooth voltmeter for our fiver. $40.

It is interesting in that it records voltage into the battery. Transmits to my phone. Also has alarms.

We have whatever converter the Cedar Creek factory put in there.

I have seen all three voltages. 13.1, 13.6 and bulk one time over 14. We were surprised as the cooling fan for the converter came on. Typically we are plugged in at campsites and our 460 amp battery bank seldom needs that much.

In the first year our batteries have not needed water.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:02 AM   #14
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I bought a BM2 Bluetooth voltmeter for our fiver. $40.



It is interesting in that it records voltage into the battery. Transmits to my phone. Also has alarms.



We have whatever converter the Cedar Creek factory put in there.



I have seen all three voltages. 13.1, 13.6 and bulk one time over 14. We were surprised as the cooling fan for the converter came on. Typically we are plugged in at campsites and our 460 amp battery bank seldom needs that much.



In the first year our batteries have not needed water.


Iíll bet that CC didnít put in a WFCO, itís easy to tell. I would be surprised if they did.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:03 AM   #15
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There are certainly better ones out there, especially from Progressive. But I wouldn't call WFCO garbage. Mine is running at 13.2 volts right now, and has been for 2 days. This our third day on shore power. The first day it was at 13.6.


Are you sure itís WFCO?
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:07 AM   #16
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Are you sure itís WFCO?


Also WFCO is only 3 stage, not 4 stage. Retail cost for the 2 is that progressive is 30.00 dollars more but you get 4 stage and. Wizard. No comparison
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:33 AM   #17
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Are you sure itís WFCO?
Yup, WF8935PEC.
And you're right, it is 3-stage. If it ever goes south, I'll upgrade. But I have no complaints.
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Old 05-26-2019, 07:59 AM   #18
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From the WFCO manual:

Converter Operation Modes


All WFCO power converters are automatic three-stage switching
power supplies. The converter senses which mode it needs to be in by
checking the RV system voltage.

The three modes/stages of operation include:
Absorption mode/Normal operation
Nominal battery charge and supplies power to appliances
Bulk mode/Charge mode
Fast battery charge and supplies power to appliances
Float mode/Trickle charge
Trickle battery charge during storage

Absorption Mode: During this mode, the converter output is in the
13.6 Vdc range. This is the normal operation mode. This mode
provides the 12 Vdc and current required by the 12 Vdc RV appliances,
as well as slow charging the battery.


Bulk Mode: In this mode, the output voltage of the converter will
switch to 14.4 Vdc range for a maximum of four hours. If the converter
cycles between “Absorption and Bulk mode”, there could be a shorted
battery cell or other issues.


Float Mode: In this mode, the converter is charging the battery with a
trickle voltage of 13.2 Vdc. When the converter senses a demand (by
turning on lights), the converter automatically returns to the
“Absorption mode”.
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Old 05-26-2019, 08:07 AM   #19
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In actual usage, a few LED lights won't kick it up to 13.6.
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Old 05-26-2019, 11:22 AM   #20
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I have read all that but I still question saying float is 13.6. I donít have slightest idea why WFCO and progressive states it at 13.2. I also leave mine plugged in 24/7 and for some reason I need to add water to my bank atleast every 45 days when the charger puts out 13.6. Something is happening to it. This is why I like the Progressive charger with the Wizard. Before I bought the progressive on my old 5er. I called them they stated that float was 13.2 , I think they called 13.6 absorption, and 14.2 bulk. Plus being a 4 stage not 3 like WFCO it will go into equilazation automatically. So Iím still a little confused why both companies state there float is 13.2 not 13.6. Iím not sure if you can answer that, but I guess I would have to go with there explanation on how there chargers are set up. Thanks for the read

Right, they are only explaining their modes and the voltages they use for those modes and not how the batteries respond to different voltages, that's why I included the link to batteryuniversity since they discuss battery operation and life based on voltages rather than discussing specific charger products and their function.


If your battery bank were gassing with 13.6v that just seems odd to me. How old are/were those batteries and how many discharge cycles have they seen? Ever had any other battery issues or failures (Low Ah capacity, etc)?


Definitely odd, would be curious to know if or how many other folks here have experienced similar battery issues with gassing and needing water often.


At this point our trailer has been plugged in to shore power for over a year (Literally, it's parked in our driveway connected to shore power when not being used) and the water level in the battery hasn't changed and there's no gassing, I verified I'm seeing 13.6v at the battery terminals as well.


At the end of the day it sounds like you got your battery situation under control with a different charger and that's what matters. I was just pointing out that 13.6v shouldn't be posing a problem for float charge voltage, but that depends on the condition of the batteries. For example, if you have a shorted or dead cell then that 2.26v per cell turns into 2.72v per cell which is excessive overcharging. That would be the same as sending 16.3v to a fully-functional 12v battery. Definitely not good.


The WFCO converters/chargers may not be the best, but you're the first I've heard of that has run into battery/gassing problems so it doesn't seem to be a common problem/complaint and hard to say what the true cause of that was.
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