Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-07-2020, 10:09 PM   #1
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Freelander 21QB Cap Issue?

Hi. I am a newbie to this forum ( and RVing ) and put a deposit down on a 2016 Freelander 21QB today at a Campers Inn dealership in NH. Camper looks in good shape and only 2K miles on it ( not used much at all ) but had noticed a slightly uneven part of the front cap ( more noticeable in sun angle ). I mentioned to the salesman that I was concerned of a water issue ( or some other issue ) that has caused this and if is something that could get worse. He said he could have it looked at more closely when they prep the vehicle and that it may be related to the seal around the lights just above it?

Anyway, was hoping anyone of you experiended Rvers could advise if this could be a major issue for me down the road in which case I should think about avoiding going ahead with the purchase? Or else something I should demand needs to be addressed before I sign the final papers? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Freelander 21QB Cap.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	222.2 KB
ID:	233416  
__________________

bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 10:41 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: anywhere we want
Posts: 129
Run away. Water has gotten in front either from roof or front light.that is definitely delamination.
__________________

httntheroad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 11:38 PM   #3
Site Team
 
bikendan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Camano Island, Washington
Posts: 21,993
Yep, major delamination, most likely due to water intrusion from poor roof maintenance.
Unless the dealer totally repairs the damage and lowers the price, I'd walk away.
__________________
Dan-Retired California Firefighter/EMT
Shawn-Musician/Entrepreneur/Wine Expert
and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
2016 PrimeTime TracerAIR 255, pushing a 2014 Ford F150 SCREW XTR 4x4 3.5 Ecoboost w/Max Tow Package
Equalizer WDH
bikendan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 09:24 AM   #4
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
I believe the salesman mentioned the cap was made of Azdel but I spoke to someone at Coachmen support and he said they may have not fully converted the front caps from using luan to azdel at that point. He mentioned they could do a moisture test around the clearance lights to check for water damage? :-( Going to contact salesman to voice my concern.
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 02:57 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Mid Michigan
Posts: 886
Shortly after buying our new MH 3 years ago I knew there was issues with QC and workmanship so inspected every exterior light and fixture and ended up resealing almost every exterior feature on the MH. Even the ones that looked okay I just redid for my own piece of mind. I often wonder how frustrating it must be for people that cannot do the preventative maintenance themselves or are not comfortable with diy.
markb422 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 08:02 PM   #6
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks for the replies. Told salesman that if his Service Dept cannot look under the cap for me to see what is going on before a final sale then we were not going to move forward. He ended up calling me back and said after talking to his boss they are going to put priority now on getting the camper into Service ahead of other work and take cap off to see what is going on. To address before us or next person in line for it ( suposed 2 behind us ) gets serious about buying - what I think they should have done in first place. Supposedly we were first ones to spot the issue. Sounds a little fishy.

Anyway, will wait to see what he says before we officially walk away as we have been looking for a lightly used camper with the 21QB floorplan and we are seeing any used ones being gobbled up quickly right now in Northeast due to Covid-19. :-( But did not want to inherit a structual problem that could get worse!

Note: it is a 2016 with only 2K miles which at first I thought was great but now questioning if original owner used it enough to identify/get fixed any issues. Would have to rely on a thorough PDI by the dealer which is of concern being an RV newbie. And no warranty to fall back on. :-(
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 04:32 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Witch Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilmet01 View Post
I believe the salesman mentioned the cap was made of Azdel but I spoke to someone at Coachmen support and he said they may have not fully converted the front caps from using luan to azdel at that point. He mentioned they could do a moisture test around the clearance lights to check for water damage? :-( Going to contact salesman to voice my concern.


It is not made of Azdel, I would bet anything on it. First Azdel will not delaminate. I know of no caps made of it they are all fiberglass. Azdel is a great product, but has only been used on sidewalls.
__________________
Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC

Witch Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 08:31 AM   #8
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks Witch Doctor. So if the cap is all fiberglass then would water damage cause the uneven appearance that I see and, if so, should the dealer be able to fix the problem to avoid it getting any worse?
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 09:52 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
Witch Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,189
Quote:
Originally Posted by bilmet01 View Post
Thanks Witch Doctor. So if the cap is all fiberglass then would water damage cause the uneven appearance that I see and, if so, should the dealer be able to fix the problem to avoid it getting any worse?
to answer your question yes it can be repaired, but I would make them either repair it or replace the cap. I say itís fiberglass because I have been to the factory and they are laying all over stacked up. I had to run some wire so I had my cap open I also insulated it at the same time, I saw the raw fiberglass matting. I know of no way that they can bend and shape Azdel board. Where that came from is beyond me. Both my front and rear caps are fiberglass. If you go to the factory there sign that says Coachmen is made out of a sidewall it has no edging on it , it has been raw Azdel board for over like 10 years, now if that doesnít delam in all the weather in Indiana it shows it will not delam as they state. It looks like it leaked at the marker light to me, so it is repairable for sure. Donít run away yet, see what they are willing to do first. Hope this helps you out.
__________________
Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC

Witch Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 10:18 AM   #10
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks again WitchDoctor. I was able to talk to someone more knowledgable at Forest River customer service who explained the cap is actually just a filon wrap that is glued to corregated cardboad on the inside. Based on the picture he agreed it looks like some water got in ( probably around the top clearance light ). He said it appeared to be minor damage to him but that they need to open it up to see which they are now in the process of doing. I asked the salesman to send me some pics of what they find inside. 👍
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 10:52 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Witch Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,189
Well that’s great, I think it’s repairable myself. When you get the inside pictures please post them, I know I would like to see them. So like I said you could be getting a good low mileage unit and let’s see what they find, I knew it wasn’t made of Azdel or Luna board. Thanks for the update.
__________________
Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC

Witch Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-09-2020, 11:06 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Witch Doctor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Clarksville Va.
Posts: 10,189
By the way there is a great y tube on the Adzel board and process of how it’s made and delam proof if you haven’t seen it, that’s one reason I went with Coachmen, adzel board is like 7 times the cost of Luna material, that’s why FR doesn’t use it. The cap is cheap and then just get it painted if it came down to that. I would also call Coachmen on what it would cost to replace it if you really wanted the RV. I swear by Coachmen, they are a great company to work with, but that’s just my opinion, had 4 other FR trailers before I went with Coachmen, I’m very happy I did. FR could learn a lot from them in C/S , you won’t find better. Remember they been in business 55 years,
__________________
Coachmen M/H
Concord
2018 / 300 DSC

Witch Doctor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 05:53 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Posts: 21
I have a 2019 21QB. My cap is fiberglass they changed it. Just got done taking that running light off and resealing it today. There was moisture in the screw compartment holding it on. Came in and ate dinner and read this. I like the motorhome but there was lots of quality issues. I have sealed it bottom to top and back again.
BDenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 06:54 PM   #14
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Just got a late day call from the salesman. He had good news and bad news for me. Bad news was he could not get me any pics while service had it open - not surprising :-(. His good news was their service tech opened it up and found a rusted screw(s) from the clearance light due to very small leak that occured over time but no structural damage inside to cap. Sounds similar to what BDenn was just seeing. He confirmed no wood in the cap but I told him I was told by Coachmen that that they do use corrugated cardboard ( even models to this day ) glued the the filon for the cap. I am goung to try to call service first thing in morning and talk to the service tech myself to see how he explains it so I fully understand.

Anyway, not sure if they will take any money off for the damage that did occurr as supposedly at least 2 people in line waiting to buy if we don't. I do believe him about that as have been currently seeing any used ( as well as new ) RVs going quickly right now from all local dealers here in New England due to Covid19. Will need to make a decision probably by tomorrow. If we like everything else well enough then maybe I will ask if he can take something off the price to help our decision? I think he might not be willing to due to the high demand but worth trying if we want to go forward.

Note: I am willing to wait for something else but the wife is giving me the "you are always going to find something you do not like in a used RV" and she is getting impatient with me while really wanting to get some camping in this season ( I just finally retired a couple of months ago ). Just never know when the next opportunity will come along for a lightly used one. :-(

Thanks for chiming in BDenn. Sounds like a common issue with the fron cap light taking in moisture. Now just have to decide if it there maybe be other quality issues we do not know about ( and not fixed ) as this was very lightly used ( just 1K miles ) by the previous owner over 4 years. And saw signs of it not being covered during our new england winters ( awning all moldy when we asked to extend it, end of front cap decal peeling already ).
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 07:09 PM   #15
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Also meant to mention that selling price looks like about $1K above what NADA is showing for a 2106 21QB.
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 08:46 AM   #16
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Posts: 21
If you buy it be prepared to do a lot of work. I could go into all I have done to a new 2019 bought in 2018. Hope I get it all. I am pretty sure my front cap is fiberglass or something similar. When had front running light off there was a 3/4 inch hole the wires ran through was about 1/2 inch thick or more also molded features on it. Have seen pictures of earlier 21QB's. When the molding by the front windshield is taking off the front cap just hangs down not very thick no molded features on it. I am worried about supports in mine. I know the new ones have been changed to aluminum hope it is mine. The old ones were wood. Do not know when it changed. So I will keep on sealing. Anything can be fixed . Depends how much work you want to do Maybe you can get dealer to fix front cap. Good luck with your decisions,
BDenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 08:55 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Michigan
Posts: 21
Oh yeah Adzel is just in the sidewalls. the back wall and roof is Luan board.
BDenn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 09:45 AM   #18
Bilmet01
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 9
Thanks BDenn and to everyone else for their input. I decided to not go forward with this sale and take my chances finding something else I am more comfortable with in near future. Hopefully I will not regret my decision. My wife is disappointed but not mad at me. 👍 Thanks again!
bilmet01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-14-2020, 10:52 AM   #19
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 31
@Bilmet01

There is no shortage of Coachmen Class C's out there, and most of them are in great shape. Better to wait for the right one than to deal with a basket case for years!

I wish you best of luck finding the right fit for you to bring you a long time of enjoyment!
__________________

__________________
Nate Ravid
2018 Freelander 27QB
nravid is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:29 AM.


×