Freezing and furnace problems

[5picker]

Originally Posted by jegstrup

To everyone that suggested the propane was too cold, I believe you’re right since it stopped again tonight after working beautifully all evening. Fortunately I went to Walmart and bought another space heater so I’ll be warm tonight.
That propane bottle warmer someone suggested is looking like a smart idea. Or an even better idea is get the crap outta these freezing temps!

I'm betting you have a blend of Butane in your tank(s).

Or... you could possibly have moisture in your propane system and the regulator is freezing. Pretty common if the the filler of the new tank(s) didn't purge them first.

I use 20 & 30 # propane tanks outside in 0º weather and they work fine.

Thousands of homes have a 100# tank sitting outside next to their house for cooking and they have no blankets to keep them warm. It gets below 0º for weeks, sometimes months.

Propane boils at about -44º so it will still make gas down to that temperature.

[A32Deuce]

Yep it boils at -44F. but as the temp gets colder and closer to -44 it slows boiling and lessens the pressure needed to work properly. Granted at your house it doesnt happen because it goes into a warmed space first. In an RV everything is out side other then the line going into the unit. So if you heat the tank for an RV, then the gas going in is going to keep the regulator warm and more pressure for it to work properly.

[jegstrup]

Update-
The mobile repair man wasn’t able to diagnose the issue because it always worked when he was here during the day.
The problem seems to happen when the temps get down to about 30 degrees.
I call Atwood support and they said they weren’t familiar with this problem and recommended I get an Atwood certifies repairman so he can call in to their support people to get assistance diagnosing it.
This 3 day cold spell has passed and lows are back in the 40’s so it’s working again. As soon as I get to another location where I can park a couple weeks or more, I’ll look into this again and post updates.
Thanks for everyone’s suggestions

[rockfordroo]

Sounds like a frozen regulator to me.

[RSchleder]

Originally Posted by jegstrup

My rig is a 2018 and I just had to replace the circuit board on the water heater.
I tried the reset button again and it didn’t work this time.
Fortunately, a local mobile repair guy had an opening this afternoon.
Brand new motorhomes shouldn’t have all these problems!

Your RIGHT! Unfortunately, it goes with the territory. I bought 3 new DP'er ( a 1993 Gulfstream, 1998 Monaco dynasty, and a 2005 Allegro Bus and each one took a year to work the bugs out. I know it's extremely frustrating and unacceptable.
I liken our RV industry to the same mentality as US auto makers had in the 1970's and we both know what happened there.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Yep it boils at -44F. but as the temp gets colder and closer to -44 it slows boiling and lessens the pressure needed to work properly. Granted at your house it doesnt happen because it goes into a warmed space first. In an RV everything is out side other then the line going into the unit. So if you heat the tank for an RV, then the gas going in is going to keep the regulator warm and more pressure for it to work properly.

-44° is a HUGE differential from the OP's reported temperature.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by nomad297

Did anybody take my bet?

Bruce

The OP apparently has a freezing regulator issue potentially caused by "weak" summer blend of LP.

There have been several add on posts of people with other issues, including a bad board.

Aaron

[A32Deuce]

Originally Posted by 5picker

-44° is a HUGE differential from the OP's reported temperature.

Not so much pressure wise. Temp is one thing but pressure,is what is used. Working outside with small tanks like that in the teens and twenty cuts the useable pressure. We had to heat our tanks to run a generator and air circulation blower/heater for working in manholes!

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by wahoonc

The OP apparently has a freezing regulator issue potentially caused by "weak" summer blend of LP.

There have been several add on posts of people with other issues, including a bad board.

Aaron

It looks like I should pay more attention to who the OP is in threads that end up going in all different directions.

I’m glad nobody took my bet now!

Bruce

[Witch Doctor]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Yep it boils at -44F. but as the temp gets colder and closer to -44 it slows boiling and lessens the pressure needed to work properly. Granted at your house it doesnt happen because it goes into a warmed space first. In an RV everything is out side other then the line going into the unit. So if you heat the tank for an RV, then the gas going in is going to keep the regulator warm and more pressure for it to work properly.

This I do not understand, if the pressure regulator is freezing up what is the difference at your home, my propane tank regulator is outside on the tank, so how does a line going into a house heats a regulator outside? I do know that the regulator on my house tank is different then the one on the RV.

[wahoonc]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

This I do not understand, if the pressure regulator is freezing up what is the difference at your home, my propane tank regulator is outside on the tank, so how does a line going into a house heats a regulator outside? I do know that the regulator on my house tank is different then the one on the RV.

Volume...
Regulators have different flow ratings, usually listed as BTUs. The house regulators probably have a higher BTU rating. We have different pieces of LP powered equipment at work, the high volume ones will freeze up faster that the lower volume ones. An LP generator at idle will run all day at 20° but start running it at 3/4 load and it will freeze up quickly.

Aaron [emoji41]

[5picker]

Originally Posted by A32Deuce

Not so much pressure wise. Temp is one thing but pressure,is what is used. Working outside with small tanks like that in the teens and twenty cuts the useable pressure. We had to heat our tanks to run a generator and air circulation blower/heater for working in manholes!

I hear you but understand, we use 20 & 30# tanks outside in weather down to 0° without issues and without heating the tanks. I've even used my own trailers near 20° and the furnace and stove worked fine. Just this morning in my garage, I fired up a 40,000 BTU heater on a 30 # propane tank and at 14°, no issues so my own experiences say it works.

I'm still betting on a Butane blend or the regulator freezing.

[Witch Doctor]

If the regulator is freezing and causes a problem why can't a person just wrap some insulation around it, why wouldn't that work? Like it has been said could be the propane, or by not bleeding the system when filling someone could vet condensation in the bottle, I have never had a problem and that's camping in the teens.

[MR.M]

free flowing propane can freeze your hand . when in the 20's and a high volume appliance comes on it can cause freezing at the regulator , I've had this problem running one of those little buddy heaters when it was just below 20 causes the flow to reduce . in a furnace the flow can be reduced enough to cause flame out or the flame sensor to lose flame on it and shut down . some units are worse then others . also the propane may have excessive moisture in it but doubt that . never heard of a propane company mixing butane with propane . also the op regulator may not be putting out enough WC and when it gets cold it's even worse . check the WC past the regulator need min of 11 and 14 wc would be the best or max

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by MR.M

. never heard of a propane company mixing butane with propane .

This has been a practice in Southern states and Mexico. Butane boils around 0 Celsius and Propane around -40 Celsius. In colder climates Butane would "freeze" but in warmer climates it's OK. Butane/Propane mixes are also sold in small canisters for backpacking stoves/lamps.
Now if someone fills their propane tank down South, along the border, and then goes camping in Minnesota during cold weather, there will probably be some problems.

BTW, same thing can happen with Gasoline with different Regional/Season blends. Fill up in your 100 gallon fuel tank in Colorado during the winter then drive to Phoenix. Then don't be surprised if you suffer from "vapor lock" until you can refuel with the proper blend.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Witch Doctor

If the regulator is freezing and causes a problem why can't a person just wrap some insulation around it, why wouldn't that work? Like it has been said could be the propane, or by not bleeding the system when filling someone could vet condensation in the bottle, I have never had a problem and that's camping in the teens.

Because insulation doesn't help unless there's an internal source of heat for the insulation to keep in.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Because insulation doesn't help unless there's an internal source of heat for the insulation to keep in.

WOW!!

Finally, somebody who knows how to use insulation and understands that it is useless without a heat source.

Bruce

[5picker]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Because insulation doesn't help unless there's an internal source of heat for the insulation to keep in.

Correct... the freezing isn't coming from the outside, its coming from inside.

[wahoonc]

The freezing is an effect of flow. I had one of my clowns get frostbite in July when he didn't turn the tank valve off and cross threaded the quick attach fitting.

Aaron [emoji41]

[rockfordroo]

I knew a guy who put soda bottles in a cooler in an unheated shed and then couldn't understand why they froze.