Towing Capacity

whough · 01-30-2017, 06:35 PM

I own a Coachmen 360 dl, just weighed on CAT scales at 28000. It has a GCWR of 30000. My intent was to use my Envoy as a toad, which is going to put it over the GCWR. As a matter of fact just about any toad will put me over GCWR. Can anyone comment on this? Doesn't seem right to me. Thanks

kenandterry · 01-30-2017, 07:27 PM

I don't think GCWR is the rating to be concerned with. You're towing the Envoy....not carrying it.

Someone else will chime in with all these letter codes for motorhomes and how they apply.

emm-dee · 01-30-2017, 07:43 PM

If your actual weight is 28,000 and GCWR is 30,000 then you are limited to pulling 2,000 pounds or less. One of the reasons I quit looking at motorhomes. Most of them (at least the one's I can justify) are overloaded and underpowered. And, one of the reasons I really like the Dynaquest...it can tow up to 20,000 pounds and has enough power to do it uphill.

Pretty good explanation of weights here: http://changingears.com/rv-sec-tow-v...derstand.shtml

timfromma · 01-31-2017, 07:23 AM

Just one of the reasons I prefer a trailer or 5th wheel. There's no need for a TOAD.

KAttkisson · 01-31-2017, 07:35 AM

Consider this. The rating of your RV is a function of what your vechicle can carry and what the brakes can stop. You can pull just about anything if you are willing to pay for the fuel from a mechanical aspect .
Since you aren't carrying it you can discount that within reason.

That leaves braking. Get a GOOD toad brake system and then the weight of the toad is not additive. I'm partial to SMI's stay in play systems.

timfromma · 01-31-2017, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KAttkisson

Consider this. The rating of your RV is a function of what your vechicle can carry and what the brakes can stop. You can pull just about anything if you are willing to pay for the fuel from a mechanical aspect .
Since you aren't carrying it you can discount that within reason.

That leaves braking. Get a GOOD toad brake system and then the weight of the toad is not additive. I'm partial to SMI's stay in play systems.

GCWR is the maximum allowed combined weight of the vehicle PLUS any trailer. The quality of the braking system is irrelevant to this number.

emm-dee · 01-31-2017, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timfromma

GCWR is the maximum allowed combined weight of the vehicle PLUS any trailer. The quality of the braking system is irrelevant to this number.

Very true. We don't know for sure what limiting factor is used to determine the weights. A good example is both the max trailer and the max combined weights for the Ram pickups. The 1500 with the EcoDiesel has weights that are over 1,000 pounds less than the hemi powered model even though both versions have the same frame, brakes, gear ratios, etc. Turns out the reason is it was determined that under certain common conditions the ED turbo would overheat if the published max weights were exceeded, even though th ED had a better torque rating.

whough · 01-31-2017, 08:54 AM

Thank you

whough · 01-31-2017, 08:57 AM

Has anyone used the NSA ready brake system?

jonwisconsin · 01-31-2017, 12:57 PM

OP if you are in an accident this information might become relevant and you would be liable. As it was mentioned the GCWR is the sum of the TV in your case the motor home and the toad. No way around it unless you want to go around risking yourself and others. Sorry

jonwisconsin · 01-31-2017, 12:59 PM

Emm-dee, the reason the 1500 eco diesel has a lower figure is because the diesel engine weights more than the gas.

timfromma · 01-31-2017, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonwisconsin

Emm-dee, the reason the 1500 eco diesel has a lower figure is because the diesel engine weights more than the gas.

The diesel engine delivers more torque which should more than compensate for its increased weight. There must be something else that's the limiting factor.

lbrjet · 01-31-2017, 03:28 PM

According to the Coachman website the GVWR is 26K so you are 2K over.

jonwisconsin · 02-01-2017, 09:21 PM

Tim,
I don't want to be contentious, but go and look at the manufacturer's web pages and you will see what I meant. For example a Silverado 2500 6.2L gas has a payload of 3,410 in the same configuration but with a diesel it has 2,880. In the 2500 RAM Hemi the payload is 3,990 but 3,160 for a diesel. What I have been told is that the addtional weight of the diesel engine is reduced from the GVWR.

emm-dee · 02-01-2017, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonwisconsin

Tim,
I don't want to be contentious, but go and look at the manufacturer's web pages and you will see what I meant. For example a Silverado 2500 6.2L gas has a payload of 3,410 in the same configuration but with a diesel it has 2,880. In the 2500 RAM Hemi the payload is 3,990 but 3,160 for a diesel. What I have been told is that the addtional weight of the diesel engine is reduced from the GVWR.

Payload is reduced with the diesel engine but GVWR remains the same.

jonwisconsin · 02-01-2017, 10:10 PM

Yes, that's why the payload on diesels is lower because the weight differential is deducted making diesels to have a lower payload on same configurations. The table you shared with us clearly shows it.

I looked and the same applies to 3500 RAMs.

emm-dee · 02-01-2017, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonwisconsin

Yes, that's why the payload on diesels is lower because the weight differential is deducted making diesels to have a lower payload on same configurations. The table you shared with us clearly shows it.

I looked and the same applies to 3500 RAMs.

Same differences in payloads depending on engine weight and configuration in all models...Ford, Chevy and Ram. However, there's more that goes into how the manufacturer determines the max towing capacity and max combined weight. Most of the time one can see the main reasons for the different capacities by looking at the engine/transmission configuration and the drive ratio. BUT, there may be other limiting factors which is rarely published by the manufacturer.

Regarding the original question the MH and towed vehicle has a max combined weight but we really don't know how that weight was derived. But, exceeding it may cause problems. We don't know what problems could happen...could be mechanical, could be handling, could be a whole lot of things. And, it may not cause problems. We just don't know.

In the case of the RAM 1500 ED, it's lowered towing capacity is due to possible overheating of the turbo. I first heard about that on a forum (either this on or one of the Ram forums). I asked two different factory maintenance reps and both verified that info. I've heard of people using the ED to pull more than the max weight and never had a problem. It probably pulls a little better than the Hemi version because of the higher torque output. But, some weight limits are just that...a limit. Exceeding them will probably work for a while, until it doesn't work. Then it's snafu time.

jonwisconsin · 02-02-2017, 06:15 PM

Payload is calculated GVWR-curb weight. Because diesel trucks curb weight is higher because of the engine the payload is reduced.

A reason, not the only one, why some turbos go wrong in RAMs is because the owners do not follow the manual instructions after towing. The manual states 3-5 minutes cool down period before shutting of the engine after towing a heavy trailer. I have seen many owners not following this.

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