Expanding compartment space for 2200 Watt Inverter/Charger

[rk06382]

I need a place to mount a 2200 Watt Pure Sine Inverter/Charger. It needs to be as close as possible to the batteries. I am going to cut a hole in back of the compartment next to the battery bay. I plan to build a dry pocket between the frame & the floor. The pocket will be about 12" high x 24" Wide X 30" deep.

Has anybody used this space above the frame? I placed sewer hose storage tube behind propane tank.

Draft:


The final goal:


I still need to find a place for Solar charge controller. I will take photos as I move forward.

[alexchuang]

What type of inverter is it?

[alexchuang]

I would just be worried about air flow being that you are putting the inverter into a pocket.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

What type of inverter is it?

Samlex EVO-2212 Pure Sine Inverter/Chargers (2 AC Input)
Amazon: Samlex EVO-2212

Originally Posted by alexchuang

I would just be worried about air flow being that you are putting the inverter into a pocket.

I can add ventilation to the compartment as needed. The Inverter is 12.79 x 16.77 x 8.15 inches. The pocket is to be 24 x 36 x 12 inches and will include the volume of air from the rest of the compartment. I also purchased a remote to monitor & control it.
Amazon: Samlex EVO-RC

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

Samlex EVO-2212 Pure Sine Inverter/Chargers (2 AC Input)

Amazon: Samlex EVO-2212





I can add ventilation to the compartment as needed. The Inverter is 12.79 x 16.77 x 8.15 inches. The pocket is to be 24 x 36 x 12 inches and will include the volume of air from the rest of the compartment. I also purchased a remote to monitor & control it.

Amazon: Samlex EVO-RC

As long as you have airflow you should be fine. Heat is going to be what kills the inverter. With my install, I chose to install the inverter in the “super” storage compartment on the ceiling (under the bed). This was chosen for a few l reasons: 1) easy access to the distribution panel. 2) more volume of cooler air. 3) easy placement of lithium batteries. 4) plethora of space. 5) ease of access and integration of other components.

I haven’t finished the install yet but here’s a picture of the initial placement.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

As long as you have airflow you should be fine. Heat is going to be what kills the inverter. With my install, I chose to install the inverter in the “super” storage compartment on the ceiling (under the bed). This was chosen for a few l reasons: 1) easy access to the distribution panel. 2) more volume of cooler air. 3) easy placement of lithium batteries. 4) plethora of space. 5) ease of access and integration of other components.

I haven’t finished the install yet but here’s a picture of the initial placement.

Attachment 169718

I did not want my 12VDC to be over ten foot. I have a 4/0AWG installation kit. I will run 8AGW for the 120VAC runs.

I also plan on installing my 40A MPPT Solar Charge Controller in the back where the converter is with 6AWG. I have six 100 watt solar panels for my roof.

Cable Gauge Chart:
Attachment 169721

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

I did not want my 12VDC to be over ten foot. I have a 4/0AWG installation kit. I will run 8AGW for the 120VAC runs.



I also plan on installing my 40A MPPT Solar Charge Controller in the back where the converter is with 6AWG. I have six 100 watt solar panels for my roof.



Cable Gauge Chart:

Attachment 169721

Totally get that. My cable run will be probably less than 5 ft because the batteries are going in that bay too. I ordered a dual Quickcable battery box from Battery Mart for my Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries and I’m going to place them right where that gray bin in the picture is. Basically with my system, the inverter is still going to be charging the lead acid house batteries. This is done because I wanted to be able to use the emergency battery switch if needed. If I switched the house batteries out with lithium batteries, I wouldn’t be able to use the emergency battery function to start the engine because it would probably cook the lithium’s. I also chose lithium batteries so that I could place them in the bay under the bed.

Definitely show us pictures when you’re done. I’m very interested in how it turns out.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

Totally get that. My cable run will be probably less than 5 ft because the batteries are going in that bay too. I ordered a dual Quickcable battery box from Battery Mart for my Battleborn LiFePO4 batteries and I’m going to place them right where that gray bin in the picture is. Basically with my system, the inverter is still going to be charging the lead acid house batteries. This is done because I wanted to be able to use the emergency battery switch if needed. If I switched the house batteries out with lithium batteries, I wouldn’t be able to use the emergency battery function to start the engine because it would probably cook the lithium’s. I also chose lithium batteries so that I could place them in the bay under the bed.

Definitely show us pictures when you’re done. I’m very interested in how it turns out.

I can't get lithium shipped to Alaska.

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

I can't get lithium shipped to Alaska.

Well that sucks...

[rk06382]

I dropped my FR3 off at a RV repair shop to custom build the compartment extension and install the EVO-2212. I was able to talk to the Tech and show him what I needed done.

I am going to call Battle Born Batteries to see if they will ship to Alaska. But $949.00 ea is a hard pill to swallow. Also do I need two or four?

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

I dropped my FR3 off at a RV repair shop to custom build the compartment extension and install the EVO-2212. I was able to talk to the Tech and show him what I needed done.



I am going to call Battle Born Batteries to see if they will ship to Alaska. But $949.00 ea is a hard pill to swallow. Also do I need two or four?

It rally depends on your power draw. What are you operating and how long? I personally have two only because when this setup was in my trailer, I had two 90ah 6v lead acid batteries running the system and they didn’t have a problem keeping up. On top of that, lead acid batteries should not be discharged more than 50% of their charge or permanent damage may occur. This means my 90Ah batteries are more like 45Ah batteries in lead acid.

With lithium it’s different. You can almost discharge 100% of the battery so a 100Ah battery means probably 95Ah of actual power. The Battleborns will actually shut themselves off before they get overdischarged. My one Battleborn 100Ah battery is basically the equivalent of two Trojan lead acid batteries that cost me $200 a piece. So $400 versus $950. But here’s the kicker... the Battleborns will be able to cycle 2000-3000 times as opposed to the 200-500 times a lead acid will be able to cycle. You are actually saving money in the long run with the lithium batteries because instead of buying batteries every two years, they will last you ten years if the math holds up.

I will say this though. If you switch over to the lithium batteries, you will lose your emergency start battery bridging capability. That’s why I kept the lead acid batteries in the system being charged by the OEM charger. Lithium batteries aren’t designed for that. Another reason I went with Battleborn batteries is because they have a built in battery management system with each battery. I honestly was going to design a custom lithium system with battery management but would have spent roughly the same amount anyway, so I went the simplistic approach with an off the shelf battery with integrated battery management.

That being said, my Magnum manual says that it recommends 200Ah battery bank at a minimum. I thought I could get away with one but then I read the Magnum BMK (battery monitor kit) and then it required you to put in 200Ah of batteries. So I purchased two 100Ah batteries even though I knew one would probably have been enough. But truth be told, I will probably put in another two just for S&Gs. But that will be way down the line. I have the bare minimum to make it all work so that’s good enough for me right now.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

It rally depends on your power draw. What are you operating and how long? I personally have two only because when this setup was in my trailer, I had two 90ah 6v lead acid batteries running the system and they didn’t have a problem keeping up. On top of that, lead acid batteries should not be discharged more than 50% of their charge or permanent damage may occur. This means my 90Ah batteries are more like 45Ah batteries in lead acid.

With lithium it’s different. You can almost discharge 100% of the battery so a 100Ah battery means probably 95Ah of actual power. The Battleborns will actually shut themselves off before they get overdischarged. My one Battleborn 100Ah battery is basically the equivalent of two Trojan lead acid batteries that cost me $200 a piece. So $400 versus $950. But here’s the kicker... the Battleborns will be able to cycle 2000-3000 times as opposed to the 200-500 times a lead acid will be able to cycle. You are actually saving money in the long run with the lithium batteries because instead of buying batteries every two years, they will last you ten years if the math holds up.

I will say this though. If you switch over to the lithium batteries, you will lose your emergency start battery bridging capability. That’s why I kept the lead acid batteries in the system being charged by the OEM charger. Lithium batteries aren’t designed for that. Another reason I went with Battleborn batteries is because they have a built in battery management system with each battery. I honestly was going to design a custom lithium system with battery management but would have spent roughly the same amount anyway, so I went the simplistic approach with an off the shelf battery with integrated battery management.

That being said, my Magnum manual says that it recommends 200Ah battery bank at a minimum. I thought I could get away with one but then I read the Magnum BMK (battery monitor kit) and then it required you to put in 200Ah of batteries. So I purchased two 100Ah batteries even though I knew one would probably have been enough. But truth be told, I will probably put in another two just for S&Gs. But that will be way down the line. I have the bare minimum to make it all work so that’s good enough for me right now.

If I buy two now and two more in a year or two is there a problem mixing new batteries with the older batteries?

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

If I buy two now and two more in a year or two is there a problem mixing new batteries with the older batteries?

From how I understand it, no. Because the batteries are self balancing and lithium batteries have no “memory” and each battery is self-contained, it should be fine.

But don’t mix lead acid and lithium batteries on the same system. If you are going to go lithium make sure it is separated from your lead acid system.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

From how I understand it, no. Because the batteries are self balancing and lithium batteries have no “memory” and each battery is self-contained, it should be fine.

But don’t mix lead acid and lithium batteries on the same system. If you are going to go lithium make sure it is separated from your lead acid system.

From the Battle Born Battery website specs on the 100AH (BB10012):
• 100 Amps Continuous
• 200 Amps Surge for 30 Seconds
• ½ Second Surge for Larger Loads

Four parallel batteries would give you.
• 400 Amps Continuous
• 800 Amps Surge for 30 Seconds

I did not read anywhere that you could not use them for cranking. It would be for less than 30 seconds. The Battery Management System would protect the batteries from loads higher than the above by shutting off.

[TitanMike]

Just remember that 2.2kwh is 7500btu/he. You may need more fresh air than you think. Think space heater on 50%power setting.

I'd include an outside air vent and thermostatic exhaust fan just to be safe. Also, in hot weather you want the heat to dissipate outside rather than inside where your a/c or natural ventilation will have to deal with it.

A low current computer type fan or two that switch on only when temp in the compartment rises above a safe operating temp for inverter/charger might be a good idea.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Just remember that 2.2kwh is 7500btu/he. You may need more fresh air than you think. Think space heater on 50%power setting.

I'd include an outside air vent and thermostatic exhaust fan just to be safe. Also, in hot weather you want the heat to dissipate outside rather than inside where your a/c or natural ventilation will have to deal with it.

A low current computer type fan or two that switch on only when temp in the compartment rises above a safe operating temp for inverter/charger might be a good idea.

I am having Cache Camper Manufacturing, Inc. build the compartment and install the Inverter. We talked about venting heat with a small fan. I will be able the monitor the temperature with the remote panel.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by rk06382

I am having Cache Camper Manufacturing, Inc. build the compartment and install the Inverter. We talked about venting heat with a small fan. I will be able the monitor the temperature with the remote panel.

Good deal. For insurance add the thermostatic control to the fan and then wire it all through an "Manual/Auto" switch. Fixed temp switches are available for a wide range of temps and aren't very expensive.

That way you can choose to monitor or just let everything take care of itself.

[alexchuang]

Originally Posted by rk06382

From the Battle Born Battery website specs on the 100AH (BB10012):

• 100 Amps Continuous

• 200 Amps Surge for 30 Seconds

• ½ Second Surge for Larger Loads



Four parallel batteries would give you.

• 400 Amps Continuous

• 800 Amps Surge for 30 Seconds



I did not read anywhere that you could not use them for cranking. It would be for less than 30 seconds. The Battery Management System would protect the batteries from loads higher than the above by shutting off.

Ok so you are still 150 amps short of a standard lead acid battery at surge with four Battleborns in parallel. Honestly, I’ve never looked into what it would take to start the Triton motor but personally I would be safe rather than sorry.

I’m not saying that the batteries won’t be able to handle it or if they would or would not be protected by the built in BMS system. What I am basically saying is that I personally would not do it because of the what-ifs. And at $950 a battery right now, do I really want to take on that risk. What is risk versus reward? Can a solar power system provide enough charging to offset the need for an extra 200Ah worth of battery capacity? Do I even need the 400Ah capacity? Am I ok with buying batteries in the future rather than now if I realize my system is undersized? Would I rather spend $2k on what I need rather than $4k on what I might need today? Can my PV system even charge the battery bank? These are the questions I asked myself. What you want to do is up to you though. I don’t live in Alaska so I don’t know how the sunlight is out there. But I would ask about data of your historical power usage in order to properly size your battery bank.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

Ok so you are still 150 amps short of a standard lead acid battery at surge with four Battleborns in parallel. Honestly, I’ve never looked into what it would take to start the Triton motor but personally I would be safe rather than sorry.

I’m not saying that the batteries won’t be able to handle it or if they would or would not be protected by the built in BMS system. What I am basically saying is that I personally would not do it because of the what-ifs. And at $950 a battery right now, do I really want to take on that risk. What is risk versus reward? Can a solar power system provide enough charging to offset the need for an extra 200Ah worth of battery capacity? Do I even need the 400Ah capacity? Am I ok with buying batteries in the future rather than now if I realize my system is undersized? Would I rather spend $2k on what I need rather than $4k on what I might need today? Can my PV system even charge the battery bank? These are the questions I asked myself. What you want to do is up to you though. I don’t live in Alaska so I don’t know how the sunlight is out there. But I would ask about data of your historical power usage in order to properly size your battery bank.

I understand your point. I have never used the emergency bridge. I had two class Cs before my FR3. I bought a trickle charger to maintain the engine battery when I was plugged into shore power.
BLACK+DECKER BM3B 6V and 12V Automatic Battery Charger / Maintainer

I have six 100 watt solar panels for the roof (Renogy RNG-100D-S) and a 40 amp MPPT Solar Charge Controller (EPSOLAR TRIRON4210N). I plan to have two more 100 watt panels as a portable to point at the sun.

This is all new stuff for me. I had to learn about what was the best available on Amazon for each element of this project.

I went with Samlex EVO-2212 Pure Sine Inverter/Charger because it had a built in transfer switches for both Shore and Generator power. I can always start the generator to charge the batteries with 100 amps. It has a maximum continuous DC input current of 266A. That means I need at least three 100ah batteries.

I will do more research and order on four on Monday.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by alexchuang

Ok so you are still 150 amps short of a standard lead acid battery at surge with four Battleborns in parallel. Honestly, I’ve never looked into what it would take to start the Triton motor but personally I would be safe rather than sorry.

I’m not saying that the batteries won’t be able to handle it or if they would or would not be protected by the built in BMS system. What I am basically saying is that I personally would not do it because of the what-ifs. And at $950 a battery right now, do I really want to take on that risk. What is risk versus reward? Can a solar power system provide enough charging to offset the need for an extra 200Ah worth of battery capacity? Do I even need the 400Ah capacity? Am I ok with buying batteries in the future rather than now if I realize my system is undersized? Would I rather spend $2k on what I need rather than $4k on what I might need today? Can my PV system even charge the battery bank? These are the questions I asked myself. What you want to do is up to you though. I don’t live in Alaska so I don’t know how the sunlight is out there. But I would ask about data of your historical power usage in order to properly size your battery bank.

Just a personal observation but I'd never have an engine starting battery as part of a house battery bank. Learned not to with a cruiser. Both engines ended up with their own starting batteries an the house bank was totally separate.

No LiFe batteries back then but if I had them I'd have installed a separate alternator for the house bank. I believe some engines today have a mount for the second alternator.

Just my own thoughts.