Keeping my tank heater on...

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by LytesOutFR3

My point being it’s impossible to join 2 hot legs together to make 240V to feed a 120V socket. It would crossphase/explode.

Actually just for educational sakes, this happens quite a lot in the RV world.

How you feed 240 volts to a 120 volt outlet/socket is to hook up one of the hot legs to the neutral (or ground) and the other hot leg to the proper line.

Just a small sampling of this in too many to mention threads here. I've lost count on just how many of these threads I've been involved in.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...me-149235.html

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1631263

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post860017

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ent-53755.html

This is what the members may have been thinking you were doing somehow, and thus the responses you were getting. Everyone was trying to help you, and it's always best to realize that. Our members are a great group and do their utmost to help their fellow campers/Rv'ers.

[stephndudb]

Originally Posted by stephndudb

Ok, I'm going to wade in on the OP's original question. For some reason he wants to plug his converter (120v AC input) directly until an extension cord instead of into a 120v outlet inside the compartment. His goal is to keep his battery charged while running tank heaters. That will work just fine.

I'm not quite clear on why he wants to do this instead of connecting the regular shore power connection. I assume he has a 50A RV and the only power available is a household 15A 120v outlet. If so, he could either do as he asked or get two adapters: 50A to 30, then 30 to 15, to plug his shore power into his house. BUT, a 50 to 30A adapter drops one leg, and if the converter happens to be on that leg it won't work.

Therefore, the simplest/cheapest solution is what he suggested - plug the converter into an extension cord.

Question for the OP: can you get the extension cord into the converter compartment without leaving an external compartment door open? An open hatch will let a lot of cold air into your rig.


Sent from my VS995 using Forest River Forums mobile app

One note: the extension cord must be heavy enough to carry the amperage of the converter over the length of the cord run. Since I have no idea what his converter draws, I'd recommend using the shortest possible 12 guage extension cord to be safe. We run a 50' 12 gauge cord to our fifth wheel (through a 30-15 adapter) during storage so we can go in, run lights, roll out a slide as needed.

Originally Posted by LytesOutFR3

No... the converter/inverter plugs into a household style plug in the compartment where my 50A 240 cord is. While the generator is running or the coach is plugged into shore power the outlet provides 120v just like the ext cord. So the batteries will maintain a charge while running the tank heater (which will only come on when temps drop below 44 deg) just like it would if it was plugged into a 50A pedestal or the gennie was running.

Sent from my VS995 using Forest River Forums mobile app

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by stephndudb

Ok, I'm going to wade in on the OP's original question. For some reason he wants to plug his converter (120v AC input) directly until an extension cord instead of into a 120v outlet inside the compartment. His goal is to keep his battery charged while running tank heaters. That will work just fine.

I'm not quite clear on why he wants to do this instead of connecting the regular shore power connection. I assume he has a 50A RV and the only power available is a household 15A 120v outlet. If so, he could either do as he asked or get two adapters: 50A to 30, then 30 to 15, to plug his shore power into his house. BUT, a 50 to 30A adapter drops one leg, and if the converter happens to be on that leg it won't work.

Therefore, the simplest/cheapest solution is what he suggested - plug the converter into an extension cord.

Question for the OP: can you get the extension cord into the converter compartment without leaving an external compartment door open? An open hatch will let a lot of cold air into your rig.


Sent from my VS995 using Forest River Forums mobile app

Me thinks you also need to look at what happens when a 50 to 30 amp adapter is used by a 50 amp system.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by stephndudb

BUT, a 50 to 30A adapter drops one leg, and if the converter happens to be on that leg it won't work.

This is often confused too. The 50 amp adapters actually jump the one and only hot leg in a 30 amp outlet (or 15/20 amp outlet) over onto the second leg (L2).

This way both the L1 and L2 in a 50 amp RV are both powered, but will now be limited to the total amps of the 30-20-15 amp outlet being used. You can still use everything in your 50 amp RV, but will be limited to just what you can use at the same time so you don't overload the circuit breaker..when using an adapter.

The 3rd schematic I posted in post #28 will show this "jumper" in the adapter.

EDIT: I went ahead and copied the adapter schematic over to this forum and added another one showing how it's jumped to simultaneously power both the L1 and L2 in a 50 amp RV.

[rockfordroo]

The OP should purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp adapter in any case, because someday he's going to end up in a campground with only 30 amp service. Once he's done that, buying the 30 amp to 15 amp seems like a no-brainer.

[youroo]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

The OP should purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp adapter in any case, because someday he's going to end up in a campground with only 30 amp service. Once he's done that, buying the 30 amp to 15 amp seems like a no-brainer.

Amen Brother! Youroo!!

[stephndudb]

Originally Posted by wmtire

This is often confused too. The 50 amp adapters actually jump the one and only hot leg in a 30 amp outlet (or 15/20 amp outlet) over onto the second leg (L2).

This way both the L1 and L2 in a 50 amp RV are both powered, but will now be limited to the total amps of the 30-20-15 amp outlet being used. You can still use everything in your 50 amp RV, but will be limited to just what you can use at the same time..when using an adapter.

The 3rd schematic I posted in post #28 will show this "jumper" in the adapter.

EDIT: I went ahead and copied the adapter schematic over to this forum and added another one showing how it's jumped to simultaneously power both the L1 and L2 in a 50 amp RV.

Right you are. I stand corrected on that. I also agree the OP should carry both 50-30 and 30-15 adapters. But, if he's in a bind and wants to connect right now the extension cord direct to converter will work.

[stephndudb]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Me thinks you also need to look at what happens when a 50 to 30 amp adapter is used by a 50 amp system.

You are correct. I was thinking of the opposite adapter - 50A to 30 - which takes one leg of the 50 and sends it to the trailer. I used to have one of those somewhere.

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by stephndudb

You are correct. I was thinking of the opposite adapter - 50A to 30 - which takes one leg of the 50 and sends it to the trailer. I used to have one of those somewhere.

That is correct, as a 30 amp RV only has one hot leg, which is shown in this adapter schematic below.



This has given me an idea, and I may write up a FAQ on all of this to save to our FAQ thread. May do it during the Super Bowl, since all my teams have been eliminated.

[BandJCarm]

LytesOut I apologize for getting involved in this. I'm not very smart on this. Besides, this is a MH thread and I don't own one. That said, I always go on "Recent Discussion" and they unfortunately not broken down into MH vs. TT discussions. I wish they were. I wish there were two sections to this site. I know why they don't do it, but it is a problem for me.

Nonetheless, I'm out on electrical discussions. I am sorry to have gotten involved. It's the old teaching degree in me, and wanting to help. I didn't, and should have shut up.

[Kirk S]

I'm glad this has been resolved as I'm almost out of popcorn.
I also learned some things and saved some of the photos for future reference. Thanks to all.

PS: I was going to mention that you can get more than 120 volts on one 50 amp leg if you have an open neutral but that would not have been helpful.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by Netgain

I'm glad this has been resolved as I'm almost out of popcorn.
I also learned some things and saved some of the photos for future reference. Thanks to all.

PS: I was going to mention that you can get more than 120 volts on one 50 amp leg if you have an open neutral but that would not have been helpful.

Oh please, do not mention that!!

[LytesOutFR3]

Originally Posted by stephndudb

Ok, I'm going to wade in on the OP's original question. For some reason he wants to plug his converter (120v AC input) directly until an extension cord instead of into a 120v outlet inside the compartment. His goal is to keep his battery charged while running tank heaters. That will work just fine.

I'm not quite clear on why he wants to do this instead of connecting the regular shore power connection. I assume he has a 50A RV and the only power available is a household 15A 120v outlet. If so, he could either do as he asked or get two adapters: 50A to 30, then 30 to 15, to plug his shore power into his house. BUT, a 50 to 30A adapter drops one leg, and if the converter happens to be on that leg it won't work.

Therefore, the simplest/cheapest solution is what he suggested - plug the converter into an extension cord.

Question for the OP: can you get the extension cord into the converter compartment without leaving an external compartment door open? An open hatch will let a lot of cold air into your rig.


Sent from my VS995 using Forest River Forums mobile app

Best explanation I have is I was caught off-guard by the weather report... it only gets this cold very rarely where I’m at. Usually hangs around the low 40’s all winter long.

Yes I ran the ext cord up through the port on the the rear compartment. I posted a pic of it earlier in the thread.

[LytesOutFR3]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

The OP should purchase a 50 amp to 30 amp adapter in any case, because someday he's going to end up in a campground with only 30 amp service. Once he's done that, buying the 30 amp to 15 amp seems like a no-brainer.

I have one already... no need to buy a 30-15 adapter if I can just plug my converter into an ext cord thanks...

[LytesOutFR3]

Originally Posted by BandJCarm

LytesOut I apologize for getting involved in this. I'm not very smart on this. Besides, this is a MH thread and I don't own one. That said, I always go on "Recent Discussion" and they unfortunately not broken down into MH vs. TT discussions. I wish they were. I wish there were two sections to this site. I know why they don't do it, but it is a problem for me.

Nonetheless, I'm out on electrical discussions. I am sorry to have gotten involved. It's the old teaching degree in me, and wanting to help. I didn't, and should have shut up.

Thank you for trying to help. I’ve done electrical work for a while now but I’m new to RV’ing... I’m sure to learn a lot from everyone here. No worries brother [emoji1360]

[LytesOutFR3]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Actually just for educational sakes, this happens quite a lot in the RV world.

How you feed 240 volts to a 120 volt outlet/socket is to hook up one of the hot legs to the neutral (or ground) and the other hot leg to the proper line.

Just a small sampling of this in too many to mention threads here. I've lost count on just how many of these threads I've been involved in.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...me-149235.html

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1631263

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post860017

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ent-53755.html

This is what the members may have been thinking you were doing somehow, and thus the responses you were getting. Everyone was trying to help you, and it's always best to realize that. Our members are a great group and do their utmost to help their fellow campers/Rv'ers.

I understand they are trying to help but short of cutting a cord and splicing wire together; how would I accomplish that? Why would I do that? What sent this thread sideways was someone stating in bold print “YOU ARE WRONG”... when in fact they were mistaken.

I appreciate the help available to me from this forum. There is a wealth of experience here which is what I don’t have.

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by LytesOutFR3

I understand they are trying to help but short of cutting a cord and splicing wire together; how would I accomplish that? Why would I do that? What sent this thread sideways was someone stating in bold print “YOU ARE WRONG”... when in fact they were mistaken.

I appreciate the help available to me from this forum. There is a wealth of experience here which is what I don’t have.

Not trying to pile on, but IMHO, what sent this thread wrong was your incorrect reference to an INverter instead of a CONverter in the opening post.

Most people on this forum who call a CONverter an INverter (or vice-versa) turn out to know next to nothing about electrical systems. Hence most folks responding figured you didn't know squat. We then got into semantics arguments over 120VAC vs 240VAC.

Go back and read through the 3 threads that wmtire posted (and there are many more he COULD have posted) and you'll see how little many folks know about the 120VAC wiring setup in RV's. So I think you set yourself up, whether it was accidental or otherwise.

I'll go duck my head, now.

[LytesOutFR3]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Not trying to pile on, but IMHO, what sent this thread wrong was your incorrect reference to an INverter instead of a CONverter in the opening post.

Most people on this forum who call a CONverter an INverter (or vice-versa) turn out to know next to nothing about electrical systems. Hence most folks responding figured you didn't know squat. We then got into semantics arguments over 120VAC vs 240VAC.

Go back and read through the 3 threads that wmtire posted (and there are many more he COULD have posted) and you'll see how little many folks know about the 120VAC wiring setup in RV's. So I think you set yourself up, whether it was accidental or otherwise.

I'll go duck my head, now.

No Rockfordroo... I admitted I was wrong about the inverter/converter terminology. No semantics about 120/240... the guy said I would FRY MY RV if I plugged in 240VAC. He was flat out wrong... I didn’t want to get testy with anyone but as it goes people add their ignorant comments...

[wmtire]

The site team is closing this thread, as it is going in circles now and definitely violating our Golden rule of "play nice".

Closed for the sake of forum harmony.