Vinyl just falling apart

[NJKris]

I can only imagine how hot it gets inside some of these RVs when they are not in use.

I monitor mine. In sun all day, blinds down, insulating cushion in skylight and roof vent wide open, at least 12 deg above outside temp. On hot days here in NJ, low 100's in trailer is normal. Not as bad as a car, but still pretty hot. Some of these guys who live in climate hell holes where temp gets over 100, wow, attic hot in RV. Before I insulated skylight, temp used to go up at least 17 deg above outdoor temps.

[repsolgamma]

2014 DS-25

We ditched our dinette for theater seating in 2019, just as all the “pleather” in the coach began to turn into dust.

RecPro was the maker of our theater seating, and offered fabric “at no additional cost”. Gives you an idea of just how “special” the “leather” covering is!

We purchased the fabric version, which is comfortable and most importantly - cool to the skin. Highly recommend RecPro theater seating.

Still leaves us with crappy looking captains chairs, and zero desire to spend 3000.00 for re-covering them. Will probably just buy aftermarket covers like others have, and install myself.

Or, you could ask Warren Buffet to pay for the repair - he bought FR before we bought the FR3 in 2014. Im sure his purse is wide open for his best victims ie customers.

[Dirt Roamer]

We have a 2014 FR Sunseeker 3170DS. Dinette, 2 jack knives, driver/passenger seats and upper bunk are all this crappy material and are all peeling and making us feel like we are riding around in Uncle Eddie's motorhome. Sick of sinking money into this thing.

[Ride_with_me.]

Originally Posted by Welsal

My 2015 Fr3 , I have replaced my entire dinet set because the all the vinyl was just peeling like a snake shedding its skin now my captains chairs are doing the same thing I had the dinet reapolsterd at a cost of 500.00 I'll have to either do that with the captains chairs or get new ones ,anyone else having this problem?

My 2016 Berkshire sets is doing the same thing. Next step?

[campers302]

Originally Posted by kydan

you say they keep on selling them but the op has a 6 year old unit.
I've heard it was a hybrid leather vinyl material.
I'm hoping they figured out what's going on and the new stuff won't peel.

they have not!

[bclemens]

Most of the industry has responded. The suppliers are more careful in their sourcing and most of the OEM's are requesting materials that are specifically tested for Hydrolysis. As I have mentioned before, Dynamax has been using 10 year rated material for several years now (and that just means they test for 10 years, once it gets there they stop testing, they don't test to failure). It seems to be mainly around that 2014-2016 time frame. We also started offering the Richloom fabric from their "Fortress" line.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Some data from Rich-loom. Itt was just the first one in google that popped with a definition.

https://richloom.com/content/Richloo...nformation.pdf

I spent a few years doing reliability physics. The way you test a product to see if it will perform for the required lifetime without taking a "lifetime" is called Accelerated Life Test. You study the physics of the predicted failure mode (in this case, hydrolysis) and determine what conditions can be increased to accelerate failure and what is the acceleration factor without introducing new failure modes that don't occur under normal conditions.

You usually test a bunch of samples to account for statistical variations--the more important the test is, the more samples you run. (When LEDs were first made available, in 1970, we tested 5000 units under varying conditions for 5000 hours (40 weeks)). If it's a new technology where the physics aren't completely understood, you test under varying conditions to learn or validate failure acceleration rate--condition level vs. time. Often multiple acceleration factors are used--in the case of hydrolysis, I would imagine the factors include both elevated temperature and elevated humidity. By testing all four cases of this combination you can discover interactions between conditions and accelerate failure without taking a single condition to an extreme. Classically, a scheme called Analysis of Variables (ANOVA) is used to decipher the test results and produce the acceleration rates of each factor and identify interactions.

Richloom is at least doing a simplified version of this. They are using a single set of conditions. They are apparently using a very small sample set. They are admittedly assuming an acceleration rate, 52:1, without confirmation. But as BC points out, this is far beyond what was done prior to the 2015 debacle.

In the 1970s-80s, there was a shift of sorts from life testing done by assembly manufacturers to component manufacturers. It's the same here: FR doesn't do the testing; they demand test results from their suppliers.

Over the next decade, one would hope that the RV industry would carry the requirement for life testing to other components. One would be the lifetime of plastics. Owners are tired of white light fixtures and vents and sinks and gutter extensions that turn yellow or turn to powder after three years. If life test results are part of the procurement process, these problems will magically disappear. Awning fabrics are another area. Dare I mention tires for towed vehicles?

Sorry for the long, boring post.

[bclemens]

Agreed.

As a side note, I only mentioned Richloom as they have done a better job putting the info into print. We buy our Polyurethanes from Fabric Services (which I don't think has ever had one of their materials on the flake list, even the stuff they did not test and warranty for flaking as they do today) as well as Swavelle/Mill Creek. Who I have only seen one or two fabrics on the list and those were VERY embossed, pattern type materials that I immediately took off of furniture on my arrival. They just seemed ill suited in my mind for wear patterns.

[RobbieH]

My good friend's 2109S's sofa furniture had the vinyl peel off the "skirt" part at the bottom. They keep it in covered storage, so sun was not an issue.

[Larry-NC]

The issue is high humidity, not sunlight. Read the entire thread.

[B and B]

Originally Posted by NJKris

Holy smokes, I'm glad I didn't go 'high end'! The upholstery in my GeoPro kind of reminds me of high end school bus seat material. I can't imagine them getting like that, but then again, only into 3rd camping season.

Is it Vinyl like a 71 maverick? That stuff made of Nagahide lasted forever. Too bad Naga's are extinct now.

[Stevemal]

Originally Posted by WolfPup2018

I just remember the sales person tell me “these are beautiful PU leather coverings throughout, offers comfort, style and design. Made to last! Go ahead, sit down and test em “

Pieces of ****. All these RV’s are. Don’t have high expectations for ANYTHING. I’ve seen a better looking 1995 RV today than what they sell today. it’s all
GARBAGE.

No ones posting on this forum about how great everything is!!! Problems, all problems.
Imagine buying a car and having to take it back to the dealer or it fall apart after only a couple of seasons

Thank you, they sure are garbage these days. And a lot of money.

[campers302]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

The issue is high humidity, not sunlight. Read the entire thread.

The issue is as OP stated.


Garbage everywhere you look in today's rv's.
Its a shame and dont tell me to not buy the product. What choice do we have. Stay home I guess?


Trash I tell you Trash. Please Fed Government, step in and regulate these companies. I am willing to pay more for quality.



Whew I feel better.

[{Tpc}]

I wanted to add that people never post how “great things are” and always post “problems”.

To those that think that way, ask yourself how many times you ran to a forum to post what a great car you have or how great the paint on your house stayed on or anything of the same. Then ask how many times you posted somewhere about your problems?

This is just the nature of the beast. If you have a great experience with something you might tell one person. Bad experience? Ten at least.

So it doesn’t surprise me that the forums are littered with problems. I’m no stranger to doing it either lol.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by repsolgamma

RecPro was the maker of our theater seating, and offered fabric “at no additional cost”. Gives you an idea of just how “special” the “leather” covering is!

Fabric and vinyl/PVC/Polyurethane are all about the same price (give or take). It was never about cost....at least for motorhomes, it as about "easy to clean", "does not hold odors" for people camping.

In addition, a motorhome (as opposed to a travel trailer), you can ride in the back of a motorhome. So, ALL fabric material must be treated with a flame retardant (by law as it has to pass a flame spread rating). That treatment often made the fabric very stiff and added cost. "Leatherette" on the other hand was naturally flame spread resistant. No need to treat (no extra time added) and it was very easy to clean.

Today, they make fabrics that have special yarns, nylons, polyesters, etc that make them pass flame spread testing without treatment. We use one of those on the Europa.

Everyone that I know is using materials today that are specifically tested against hydrolysis. Even automotive had their share of materials that failed like clockwork. Weather it was trim drying out, dashes cracking, airbags rusting or plastics yellowing, you learn, you improve, technology advances.

[captnrick3]

Great info, thanks

[Seeker411]

We have a 2016 FR Flagstaf Micro Lite 23 LB with the same problem. Does anyone know who I can contact to get replacement material for the " jack knife "couch?

[captnrick3]

Originally Posted by Seeker411

We have a 2016 FR Flagstaf Micro Lite 23 LB with the same problem. Does anyone know who I can contact to get replacement material for the " jack knife "couch?

You will discover that it is impossible and not cost effective to change that upholstery. Better to get rid of it with something comfortable. Rec Pro has some great options that are very reasonable and WAY more comfortable. All their furniture comes in pieces that are easy to install in your rig. Our Legacy had the same jack knife, it was not good to sit on but I was upset when the vinyl suddenly disintegrated. I took it out, called the manufacture in Indiana, and decided to take it to the dump. Glad I did.

[vacationlovers]

I have a question for anyone who has re-upholstered their FR3 furniture (or maybe FR can provide an answer)...

How many yards of fabric are required for:
a) driver & passenger seats
b) sofa
c) dinette benches

Thanks!

[FRSmithSR]

2016 Sunseeker 2500TSF. Since purchase in 2016 I have lived and spent money thinking that "replacement" of things is normal. Microwave replaced at 13 months, warranty ended 12 months - lol. Replaced water pump, then electric socket hookup at rear of RV - it fell out when taking off the holding bracket - glad I did not burn to the ground sometime, water tank and ceiling lighting. Dinette cushions flaked starting last year - figure that was normal too. Had all reupholstered- $1,500 with marine grade leather. I dare those suckers to flake! Despite it all, life is good.