Wheels off the ground when leveling

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by drewandjason

I no longer use the auto leveling. I switch to manual mode. Lower the rear until both are touching the ground and start to raise the coach. Then I drop the front until both are touching and start to raise the front. Based on the flashing lights I adjust rear, front, right and left. I use my phone on the dinette to verify the coach is level.

My auto level always overshot and really raised up the coach. There is a way to manually level and recalibrate your auto mode. I don’t recall offhand the process for that.

I do similar though I have a level app. And place the phone on the floor. Works great and like you don't find the coach higher than it needs to be.

[robo44]

Not a good idea in my opinion one the coach is very heavy and i dont think relying solely on jacks is a great idea & you should put blocks under the stabilizer or make yourself a multi level leveling blocks out of wood to drive up on.
Lateral forces concern me if you subject it to any horizontal forces it will buckle easily. I believe a fully extended jack would be a precarious perch to sit upon particularly if it is not level or if subjected to wind or side forces of any sort from any direction.

[seattlepaul1975]

Originally Posted by rk06382

2x on SnapPads.

I have a SnapPads and an electronic RV Level 4 w/Bluetooth.

Attachment 239079

I make sure the front is lower than the rear wheels by no more than Seven (7) inches.

Before:
Attachment 239078

After FR3 is leveled with front wheels off the ground:
Attachment 239077

SnapPads in action:
Boondocking at Cabela's Store in Anchorage, Alaska.



The only issue I had with the front wheels off the ground is the bottom door step. It was a foot off the ground. My Wife has a problem with the last step.

What size snap pads? My rig is in shop for warranty work, and want to order some so do not have it here to measure the size.

[rk06382]

Originally Posted by seattlepaul1975

What size snap pads? My rig is in shop for warranty work, and want to order some so do not have it here to measure the size.

I have the SnapPad XTRA 9 inch round pads.

Measure your pads as Forest River may have a different jack on your FR3.

[bubbles]

These are the particulars addressing the levelling system on my 2012 GT motorhome and I think they are still relevant for newer GT's and other FR non diesel models. The system installed on FR non diesel engine motorhomes is a 4 point levelling system not a stabilizer system. Each actuator (jack/strut) is rated at either 7Klb or 12Klb. The non diesel motorhomes do not have a conventional emergency brake (wherein the rear wheels are locked internal to the wheel) and the owners manual says it is a parking brake (transmission output shaft/drive shaft locked with shoes) and not to be expected to perform as an emergency brake. The only systems, owners manual restrictions for raising wheels off the ground is to not raise all the wheels off the ground.

[rk06382]

If I could not lift any wheels off the ground then I would miss this view. Both left wheels were off the ground. I would not do this without SnapPads to grip the road.

Hogan Hill Sept 2019 view of the Wrangell mountains. (Mt. Drum)

[salwolfe]

I talked to a technical specialist at Lippert which is the manufacturer of the hydraulic jacks on my rig. He said that Liippert's take on this is to never, never keep the jacks raised off of the ground front or back. He says the jacks if moved around due to shifting of some sort could result in serious damage and it's like having a rig standing on toothpicks although each jack individually is extremely strong.

Now, he says their take is that they do not know what the chassis strength foundation will be when their products are installed. They, I assume, do not have support people/engineers who would do certifications of strength or inspections to determine what level of safety is on the RVs once a Lippert system has been installed, but I didn't ask him that.

That being said, I haven't gone farther up the chain to Ford or FR to see if either has determined that it is ok or not to life front wheels up and leave them up, due to the strength of their products. Note: I have been lifting and leaving my front jacks off the ground for 2 decades on various units and will probably continue doing so on so many sites that are far from level.

[bubbles]

Did you ask why when auto leveling the front wheels are most likely to always come off the ground? Did you ask why the owners manual only has a warning for lifting all the wheels off the ground? The only time I went to Lippert for a question about my levelers and slides the answer was so ridiculously wrong I haven't asked another.

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by rk06382

If I could not lift any wheels off the ground then I would miss this view. Both left wheels were off the ground. I would not do this without SnapPads to grip the road.

Hogan Hill Sept 2019 view of the Wrangell mountains. (Mt. Drum)
Attachment 239142

Not to be a smart Alex and maybe I'm missing something but what does the view have to do with lifting your wheels up though I do find it ironic your stating that you wouldn't do this without Snappads to grip the road yet you state half of them "left wheels" are off the ground which I have to assume includes the most important rear wheels, yikes!!

[salwolfe]

Originally Posted by bubbles

Did you ask why when auto leveling the front wheels are most likely to always come off the ground? Did you ask why the owners manual only has a warning for lifting all the wheels off the ground? The only time I went to Lippert for a question about my levelers and slides the answer was so ridiculously wrong I haven't asked another.

I didn't ask that specific question, but we discussed the fact that auto level on my rig even after calibration always lifts the front wheels off of the ground. Therefore, I always manually level the rig. Didn't ask him about the FR owner's manual since I he hadn't indicated that they follow the chain of their products to various integrators which have Lippert systems on their chassis. Would you mind posting a quote from the owner's manual and specifically which model (s) specifically the manual is for. I haven't been able to find it and that would be great information.

Perhaps the Lippert take on this is a CYA answer like many others.

[bubbles]

This is from the Lippert manual for Forest River GT's. The Warning is in every Lippert manual I have read. Not one of those manuals says anything about all wheels are to remain on the ground and never addresses two wheels elevated off the ground. If you have something in a printed manual that contradicts this please post.
.
WARNING!
NEVER LIFT ALL THE WHEELS OFF THE GROUND
TO LEVEL THE COACH!
Lifting all wheels of the ground may result
in serious personal injury or death.

[bubbles]

This is from the Lippert Level up System manual

WARNING
Never lift all wheels off the ground. Lifting all wheels off the ground creates an unsafe condition
which may result in serious personal injury or death. Make sure unit is supported in accordance with
manufacturer's recommendations.

[LegacyFB38]

I think this is one of those topics where it is unclear which department the answer to a question originates. Engineering? Service? Marketing? Sales? Legal? ...

[dmctlc]

IMHO I think in the end whether a mfg. tells you not to do it or do it, it's very rare to non-existent for the Mfg. to stand by their statement if something was to happen without a major battle in court and a slew of similar instances where the exact same thing happened. If this did happen than more than likely it would end up in class action suit. But as folks throughout this thread have stated they will continue to do what they are already doing. Some will lift their tires, usually the front ones, off the ground, irregardless of the chance of the possibility of the rig "crow hopping". Heck, even "SnapPad" states that their pads can tear off from the shear force generated when a rig does it, so imagine what happens to the levelers or the brackets that hold them to the frame. Still others will not lift. Whether it's a smart move one way or the other, or not in the end when there's a failure all that can be blamed is those that decide to use them as a means to support their MHs. I, myself, have seen the results of putting a multi-ton rig on basically "tooth picks" and will never lift it completely off the ground even if it's only front tires. Also, though I'm by no means an expert, the comments that these systems state they can lift "18,000 Lbs" each basically is stating during stabilization and leveling they are tested and probably certified for the particular weight of your rig. IMO if you think through the process of stabilization/leveling process it uses two major components, the levelers and tires. It's basically lifting the entire rig, more or less, off the tires to eliminate the bounciness, though the process doesn't want to lift it completely off the tires because, to me, it uses these same tires more or less as a means to keep add stability. As stated Lippert and Power Gear, who are one company state they are designed to prevent annoying rocking and swaying not to change a tire. Again I'm sure I'll hear comments both ways, we've already had but to me in the end safety is my number one goal for me and my family and friends. Enjoy....

[salwolfe]

"Note: I have been lifting and leaving my front jacks off the ground for 2 decades on various units and will probably continue doing so on so many sites that are far from level."

Did I really say this? My jacks never leave the ground, believe me.

[Dirt Sifter]

Originally Posted by salwolfe

"Note: I have been lifting and leaving my front jacks off the ground for 2 decades on various units and will probably continue doing so on so many sites that are far from level."

Did I really say this? My jacks never leave the ground, believe me.

How do you drive with your jacks on the ground?

[salwolfe]

Originally Posted by Dirt Sifter

How do you drive with your jacks on the ground?

Well, we’re kind of talking about when we’re parked and i always try to keep the jacks raised when I'm driving. So far, I’ve been successful.

[steven skare]

Originally Posted by Firerosie

Front wheels off ground looks bad but isn't serious as compared to rear wheels. Your emergency brake on gas models is hooked to rear wheels. if you raise rear and your on a slope you run the risk of rolling away( see owners manuals) Put extra blocks under down riggers (at least 2x6's) to keep this situation under control.

On Class A emergency brake is a drum that looks the drive shaft near the transmission

[steven skare]

I use rubber pads that you can buy from a supply store that sells horse supply's> I also use 2x8s that i crisscross . I f I need to jack the front off the ground i will raise it up so I can put some wood under neath, and then lower it. I am afraid of twisting the frame.I also put rubber pads under my tyres.

[jbrosecity]

Originally Posted by steven skare

I use rubber pads that you can buy from a supply store that sells horse supply's> I also use 2x8s that i crisscross . I f I need to jack the front off the ground i will raise it up so I can put some wood under neath, and then lower it. I am afraid of twisting the frame.I also put rubber pads under my tyres.

Yep... as I posted earlier, 4'x6' horse stall pads easily cut into various small sizes with a box knife and straightedge make a cheap and easy solution. This really should end the discussion. Snap pads are relatively useless to alleviate the situation... useful primarily to keep your metal jack plates from digging into the ground or soft asphalt. They do nothing to keep your wheels on the ground. A stack of homemade inexpensive horse pad tire blocks can also be used for jacks for the same purpose... better really since you can increase the footprint. These can be used for BOTH tires and jacks if a space is too uneven. Camping World sells a set of 4 small Hosspads for $70 which is ridiculous since you can make four or more sets out of a single horse stall pad for under $50. I also made larger ones for my tag axle bus as well to drive both rear axle tires up onto a pad or two as needed.