Wheels off the ground when leveling

[cbratina]

Sunseeker 3010DS: I self leveled on a paved side slope with both the front and rear left wheels off the ground. When I retracted the levelers, the RV dropped like a rock (which is normal) and slid left a bit. I checked the levelers and the left rear had bent inward to the right side. Seems nuts that the leveler drops like a rock, they should retract slowly. As an engineer, the rear levelers were badly designed as they should have a cross brace to prevent this.

[Axeman49]

I don't have a motor home but I do have a 43ft 5th wheel. It came with auto level with 6 jacks. I was told by the dealer and it is in the literature that these jacks are not suppose to lift your rig off the ground. They are to stabilize your rig. This is why people carry wood, pads whatever to help level you rig be fore extending the jacks. If needed you also should put blocks under your jacks so the y don't get fully extended. I was also told maxing out your jacks is not good for the hydraulics.

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by cbratina

Sunseeker 3010DS: I self leveled on a paved side slope with both the front and rear left wheels off the ground. When I retracted the levelers, the RV dropped like a rock (which is normal) and slid left a bit. I checked the levelers and the left rear had bent inward to the right side. Seems nuts that the leveler drops like a rock, they should retract slowly. As an engineer, the rear levelers were badly designed as they should have a cross brace to prevent this.

Perhaps I'm missing something in your post but I'm curious, as not just a Firefighter but an engineer myself as a 2nd job for over 45 yrs., why you blame the engineer when you had all 4 wheels which equates to the full weight of the RV off the ground. I don't know of any manufacturer that would advocate doing what you did. IMHO it's not a surprise what happened to the RV though not sure if you just overloaded the valve system and it bypassed it's normal process. If this was a repeated method of camping it probably strain the system. The "crow hopping" effect you described is what Lippert/Power Gear warn about by doing what you did.

[tometrious]

I am owner of FR3. When you use the auto leveling option, the wheels will invariably come off the ground. Never use the auto leveler. It can be a nightmare. Feels like your on a roller coaster ride with no ability to control the levelers. The first time I used auto level on a relatively flat area, the rear end lifted up and the wheels came off the ground and the system shorted. It left the RV off the ground and stuck with the back left side leveler holding all the weight of the coach. I believe it tweeked my frame as the leveler never goes down straight since this episode. I learned how to manual level the coach and I have never lifted the coach off the wheels again. Don't life your wheels off the ground. It doesn't have to happen. Manual leveling is awesome and you will never put all the coach's weight on the levelers. Let me know if you need instructions on manual lifting. Good luck

[Bob2019]

Originally Posted by cbratina

Sunseeker 3010DS: I self leveled on a paved side slope with both the front and rear left wheels off the ground. When I retracted the levelers, the RV dropped like a rock (which is normal) and slid left a bit. I checked the levelers and the left rear had bent inward to the right side. Seems nuts that the leveler drops like a rock, they should retract slowly. As an engineer, the rear levelers were badly designed as they should have a cross brace to prevent this.

As the instructions from Lippert say, DO NOT lift wheels off the ground. It is unstable. If the rear wheels lift, you have lost the brakes to keep it from moving forward or backward. Of course, something is going to get bent when that heavy RV moves when on jacks. Engineering has nothing to do with you not following directions. They are there to be followed and if you don't - many dollars to fix will be the result big time.

[Grondak]

Excellent explanation! I myself (being a particular) use the Andersen round red buckets under my jack pads! They're magnetic and hold onto the pad before you lower them. I have a 37 ft. Georgetown Class A. I level the coach as much as I can with the interlocking blocks under the lowest side tire/tires. Click the buckets under the levelor pads that will accept them. (Sometimes they're not needed because of lack of space between the pad and the ground.) Then I MANUALLY level the coach with the jacks. That way I only extend the jacks the minimum amount needed to level. If I use AUTO mode the damn thing goes up, up, up, up until it's level and that's just not necessary. The idea is to keep tires and jack pads in contact with the ground for the most stability.

[IDguy]

I agree the Lippert leveling program is flawed. I usually try the auto first but check and redo manual if tires off ground. I can usually get it level with all four on the ground.

I do lift the front all the way to lower my rear to assist getting motorcycle on and off.

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by Rick g

I have at times had to have the front wheel(s) off the ground to be level. My wife doesn’t like this. I don’t feel it is a problem. Thoughts, comments? While I’m at it I don’t normally put pads under my jacks. But I’ve noticed many people do and I’m curious as to why?

Front wheels off the ground... OK. Back wheels off the ground... risky.

But make sure your parking brakes are working and that you chock the rear wheels solidly on the downward slope side. Also make sure the jacks are not on uneven surfaces. Scoop the ground level under the jack feet if needed.

If the rear wheels are firmly anchored and the jack feet are fairly level, there will be no significant side loads on the jack shafts.

Here's my rig with wheels up. Not unusual experience.

[Bob2019]

Originally Posted by IDguy

I agree the Lippert leveling program is flawed. I usually try the auto first but check and redo manual if tires off ground. I can usually get it level with all four on the ground.

I do lift the front all the way to lower my rear to assist getting motorcycle on and off.

I have given up the auto leveling feature. The manual leveling gets just what I need to get the rig level. Auto leveling almost guarantee front wheel off the ground, then me having to drive wheels up on blocks to stabilize. My last trip the manual leveling worked perfectly and in record time. Auto leveling just doesn't work!

[daugen]

I had the problem of "overlifting" the rv on my Dynamax Isata 3 with hydraulic levelers so that front wheels came off the ground, looked terribly unstable. I asked dealer about it and found out no one had done the original set up correctly. There is a process called "setting the null" which you do on level ground and it calibrates the autolevelers. Once done, my unit never overextended, never lifted the wheels up too high.

I always use Camco pads under my jacks, put dimples in my best friend's brand new driveway with first motorhome and learned an embarrassing lesson. And admittedly I don't set up on anything but pretty level ground, try to pick my sites carefully.

I bet the following calibration process might help a bunch of you:

Setting the Null:
Null is the term used to indicate the levelness of the coach. A Null setting should have been performed by the installer. If the coach is not level following an attempt to Auto-Level, you will need to level the
coach and reset the null.

To set the null, push and release the Power button on the Keypad to engage power. The LED light next to the Power button should be lit RED when the power is on. Level the coach by deploying jacks manually, or by simply parking the coach on a level site. You do not need to have the jacks deployed to set the null.
Use a bubble level on a flat surface in the center of the coach as a reference. Once the coach is level, turn the power off at the panel. Depress and hold the AutoLevel button and press and release the Power button and listen for a series of beeps. After the Keypad has beeped 5 to 6 times (the Keypad will continue to beep as long as the Auto-Level button is held) release the Auto-
Level button you should get a confirmation beep. The new null has
been set and the panel will store/remember this setting.

Press and release the All Retract button to retract the jacks to the stowed position.

[sfbrabbitry]

I was told by my repair place to not have the tires off the ground. When you go to retract the jacks your front end drops and you can damage the jack or the axles from the weight of the rig dropping. I had it happen to where the front tires where off the ground, felt the rig shimmy so retracted the jacks and thud! Thank goodness nothing was damaged. Never again. If the auto lifted it too high I did it manually and was fine. No longer have my diesel thanks to my ex Now have a 2021 FR Rockwood 2912BS travel trailer

[Bob-0]

Son in law lifted the back wheels off the ground and rolled just enough to bend the hydraulic rams. Had to have a mobile repair to disconnect and remove the jacks.

[dmctlc]

Originally Posted by Bob-0

Son in law lifted the back wheels off the ground and rolled just enough to bend the hydraulic rams. Had to have a mobile repair to disconnect and remove the jacks.

Well, you've added to some already that have had similar issues but in his case unfortunately he did took it one step further by lifting the most important wheels off the ground. I'm sure he learned an expensive lesson there. Out of curiosity you said "enough to bend the hydraulic rams." how many did he bend and which ones?
Thanks

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by sfbrabbitry

I was told by my repair place to not have the tires off the ground. When you go to retract the jacks your front end drops and you can damage the jack or the axles from the weight of the rig dropping. I had it happen to where the front tires where off the ground, felt the rig shimmy so retracted the jacks and thud! Thank goodness nothing was damaged. Never again. If the auto lifted it too high I did it manually and was fine. No longer have my diesel thanks to my ex Now have a 2021 FR Rockwood 2912BS travel trailer

Your mechanic presents an interesting argument and the leveling jacks do drop rather quickly when you retract them though, I don't think it's a free-fall.

However, among the numerous times I have had to lift my front wheels off the ground, I doubt I ever had them high enough to even come close to being any worse than the impact they get from hitting rough pavement on I-95 at 65 mph. As you can see in this photo, which is probably the highest I have ever had to lift the wheels, they are only a few inches off the ground. This, by the way, was a beautiful campground in Pennsylvania and it had only one site left, so I had no choice.

It's not infrequent that you have to take an uneven site when it's at a campground you really want to stay at. Take, for instance, Stone Mountain in Atlanta. It's one of the most beautiful campgrounds in America but unfortunately many of their sites are uneven. So if you want to camp there, there is a good chance it will require wheels off the ground. I guess I am willing to take the risk.

[ferrisjc]

Although motorhomes with auto-levelers are set to null at the factory (or supposed to be) it doesn't take a lot of use when again they need to be reset to null under ideal conditions for level, etc. prior to resetting. Once set and the (procedure isn't all that difficult) then I at least trust the auto-levelers are doing their job until they don't. Use a level regardless of having auto-levelers. If null needs to be reset you will know pretty quickly as the level will tell the truth if placed correctly inside the rig. Manually leveling the home is not a challenge either as long as you follow the manual. I carry camco levelers as well as wood planks to ensure I can be prepared for those times when the site is a challenge regardless of auto or manual leveling.

[hikerjohn7]

Originally Posted by ferrisjc

Although motorhomes with auto-levelers are set to null at the factory (or supposed to be) it doesn't take a lot of use when again they need to be reset to null under ideal conditions for level, etc. prior to resetting. Once set and the (procedure isn't all that difficult) then I at least trust the auto-levelers are doing their job until they don't. Use a level regardless of having auto-levelers. If null needs to be reset you will know pretty quickly as the level will tell the truth if placed correctly inside the rig. Manually leveling the home is not a challenge either as long as you follow the manual. I carry camco levelers as well as wood planks to ensure I can be prepared for those times when the site is a challenge regardless of auto or manual leveling.

I am wondering how leveling jacks work with manual leveling. I am thinking that, for instance, when you hit the front-up button, both front end jacks extend in sync with each other. In other words, they extend equal distances on the right and the left. And I expect the same is true for rear-up actuation and for the front-rear actuation (on either side).

My question then is.... for the front-up actuation, if the ground is higher on the left than it is on the right, then you would leveling front to back OK, but you would also be tilting high on the left. So, then you would need to raise the right side of the RV to level by hitting the right-up button.

Now, here's where it gets confusing. If the ground does not have the same contour front to back on both sides of the RV jack, you could end up twisting the frame. Now I realize that the rear axial springs would try to compensate for this compressing more on the left side than the right, but there still could be a big twisting load on the frame which can affect things like doors and cabinets. My my bathroom door sometimes binds if my leveling is not right.

So this makes me think that automatic leveling is probably pretty sophisticated since it measures each jack's position separately and adjusts each to conform with ground irregularities which would tend to relieve any frame twisting. I don't know this for a fact but just thought I

[NXR]

Originally Posted by hikerjohn7

I am wondering how leveling jacks work with manual leveling. I am thinking that, for instance, when you hit the front-up button, both front end jacks extend in sync with each other. In other words, they extend equal distances on the right and the left. And I expect the same is true for rear-up actuation and for the front-rear actuation (on either side).

Yes and no. Both extend in sync but the system monitors the extension somehow, probably a pressure increase when the jack hits. So the one that hits the ground first stops extending until the other one of the pair hits the ground. Then they extend in unison.

Ray

[Bob-0]

Originally Posted by dmctlc

Well, you've added to some already that have had similar issues but in his case unfortunately he did took it one step further by lifting the most important wheels off the ground. I'm sure he learned an expensive lesson there. Out of curiosity you said "enough to bend the hydraulic rams." how many did he bend and which ones?
Thanks

Bent the 2 back. He was un-level and lifted the rear wheels.

[jbrosecity]

I am going to throw one more thing into the mix here. I called Lippert with regard to my Forest River Class C yesterday and spoke with a female support tech who told me in no uncertain terms, that if you go into manual mode and then press the right and rear arrows simultaneously, for example, you can operate the right rear jack individually. Same applies to left and rear and on some systems this applies to the front jacks as well. I was surprised and confirmed this, telling her that the manual only explains operating a single button to activate both jacks (left, right, front or rear). I explained further that my HWH leveling systems on my former 43' Allegro Bus would ONLY allow jacks to operate in tandem. She assured me that she couldn't speak for HWH, but for Lippert I could indeed operate a single jack in this way. I am not in a place where I can test my Forester's system at the moment, but I will certainly attempt to verify this next week and will post back to the forum with my results.

[sherman12]

On my third class A camping in my 14th year and yes, there have been occassions that I have had to have the front wheels off the ground as the only way to have the rig reasonably level. At a few instances where the lift off was pretty high I would block the rear tires front and back to prevent rolling, especially when lowering the jacks. Is it somthing I commonly practice, not if I have to. This is especially true now that my currant rig has a residential fridge so being level isn't the issue like with traditional RV fridges.

Of course owner manuals are going to recommend "NOT" to lift the wheels off tground, they have attorneys too, probably part of their compliance departments.

I also always use 12x12 wood blocks made out of home build rafter beams that I salvage out of lumber cut scrap wood at nearby new housing divisions. I have attached some simple nylon cord to them, took a wooden broom handle I had laying around and screwed a $.59 garage hook into the end of the handle and now have quick and simple pads for the levelers to sit on. This is especially helpful on blacktop sites, but, even more so dirt or soft ground sites. Leveler foot doesn't sink in. Out of couresty, I will use them at better campround that have concrete site to not risk cracking the concrete pad.

Like almost everything, moderation and caution and all should be all right.