2020 Wolfpup 16BHS shower fiasco and lame warranty response

[shredjesse]

Hey everyone,

We've got a 2020 Wolfpup 16BHS. Many things are good, many things were mediocre, and many things were insanely poorly installed and questionable.

One big problem is our shower is surely installed improperly. All of the outer edges of the tub pan go towards the exterior, so any water from anywhere in the shower runs along the side of the pan and dumps out onto the floor. No amount of leveling the trailer or shower curtain trickery can fix it. So even taking a military style shower 1-2 gallons of water gets dumped right onto the floor.

As a temporary fix we built "water dams" out of 100% silicone. It works but the water now just pools up along the exterior of the tub. An improvement as it's not on the floor but still not the working shower we were sold.

The dealer went to the manufacturer to see about a fix, and they're providing "triangles" that we get to install ourselves to fix the issue.

My gut instinct is this is bull. The right way to do the job is pull the shower and reinstall it properly. Of course Wolfpup doesn't want to pay to do this, it's not cheap... but this seems like a bodgy fix to me.

Has anyone else had this problem and used the triangles with good results?

[wipup]

Not sure I understand the problem.
I suppose the tub could be installed incorrectly but it seems like that would be a hard thing to do.
On ours, the only time water starts to pool is when the grey tank is full. If the water's not draining directly and collecting off to one side, then perhaps the tub isn't level.
Otherwise, it's hard keeping things totally dry in those little bathrooms.
One thing we did was silicone all the edges and gaps to prevent moisture from getting where it shouldn't. For the most part we haven't had an issue beyond "that's just the way RV's are" problems.
I've thought about getting one of those retractable shower doors to keep shower water where it should be.

[Bama Rambler]

Can you post pictures of the issue?
You say that it's installed wrong, but is it installed wrong or is it designed wrong?

[21wolfpupfq]

Originally Posted by shredjesse

Hey everyone,

We've got a 2020 Wolfpup 16BHS. Many things are good, many things were mediocre, and many things were insanely poorly installed and questionable.

One big problem is our shower is surely installed improperly. All of the outer edges of the tub pan go towards the exterior, so any water from anywhere in the shower runs along the side of the pan and dumps out onto the floor. No amount of leveling the trailer or shower curtain trickery can fix it. So even taking a military style shower 1-2 gallons of water gets dumped right onto the floor.

As a temporary fix we built "water dams" out of 100% silicone. It works but the water now just pools up along the exterior of the tub. An improvement as it's not on the floor but still not the working shower we were sold.

The dealer went to the manufacturer to see about a fix, and they're providing "triangles" that we get to install ourselves to fix the issue.

My gut instinct is this is bull. The right way to do the job is pull the shower and reinstall it properly. Of course Wolfpup doesn't want to pay to do this, it's not cheap... but this seems like a bodgy fix to me.

Has anyone else had this problem and used the triangles with good results?

Seems that the tub was/is not level and tilts toward the main floor causing water to run off the front and back edge/lip of the tub.
I think that the tub and the shroud(wall panels) are not not a one unit - but I'm not sure how hard it is to remove re-install the tub.
I don't have any issues on mine except for the creaking noise while in the tub/shower. The inside of the tub itself tilts towards the drain. Only time it pools is when the gray tanks is full as mentioned by wipup.

[shredjesse]

Definitely installed wrong. If I were to fix it I'd have to remove wall vinyl (it's 2x pieces) and scoot it up, then raise where the lip of the tub mounts so as from the outer lip to inner lip is angled INTO the tub not OUT of the tub against the wall and later out onto the floor.

Forest River seems like they're trying to half ass this muck up by just giving me some triangles that will catch the water running out and redirect it as I have done with the silicone, but given the area of issue isn't even 90 degrees I'm not sure how they'd even know what size of triangle to give me.

I recall seeing someone else got one of these triangles installed. Curious what's up.

I'm pretty miffed about the bull triangle solution. Debating paying a plumber so I can then take these jerk birds to small claims court and have a legitimate bill to point them at, since you can't reasonably pursue them for your own work.

[shredjesse]

Oh and this 110% has nothing to do with a full grey tank, I've never even come close to full on grey, and the pooling would be in the tub, nor on the tube lip, and not on the floor... unless I was 5-8 gallons overflowing but nobody is that dumb so as to miss that.

[Larry-NC]

Have you simply told the dealer that's an unacceptable solution? That you want the shower tub reset and nothing short of that would be acceptable?

[The Newsoms]

We had this problem in our Work and Play. I bought the plastic guards that keep your shower curtain in for each side. I bought the large ones and that solved the problem. Had to use a good bit of caulk on one of the sides because it wasn’t exactly 90 degrees.

[Adrian Gordon]

Originally Posted by Bama Rambler

Can you post pictures of the issue?
You say that it's installed wrong, but is it installed wrong or is it designed wrong?

I'll join in this request for pictures. Frankly, your description makes no sense.

[The Newsoms]

Originally Posted by Adrian Gordon

I'll join in this request for pictures. Frankly, your description makes no sense.

The shower pan is tilted to the front rather than the back. This makes the water that runs down the walls, run along the joint where the wall and shower pan meet and go out to the floor.

[shredjesse]

Hey everyone!

It's been a bit. I was trying to work with the dealer and then forest river on this, and to no avail. Then I decided to give it a go myself, and it was a reasonable fix. I raised the outside lip 1" then built an exterior frame around it that was also raised that 1" up. I then reinstall the tube, but of course it no longer touched the platform underneath it. So I put 2x 6gallon water jugs in there, and then heated the plastic tub up all around the exterior several times. The plastic reformed and it now sits in place and the water runs into the camper. It took 3 hours to do the job, and I'm sure the dealership and Forest River themselves spent 6 hours telling me they couldn't and wouldn't do anything. Typical lousy warranty service.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Adrian Gordon

I'll join in this request for pictures. Frankly, your description makes no sense.

Okay, Adrian, I finally figured out what the OP was trying to tell us. Now that I've done so, I'm not sure pictures would have helped, unless the pictures included a bubble level.

This is easier for me to describe in the context of a built-in (not free-standing) residential bathtub. This tub is beneath tiled walls on one long side and both ends. The other long side is open to the room for access.

The rims on the three enclosed sides are almost flat, so you can park soap and shampoo there. There is a slight slope towards the tub, so water will drain.

In the faulty install that the OP is describing, the back, enclosed long side is much higher than the front, open side. Shower water that hits the end rims runs along those rims out onto the floor because the slope is so steep.

The dealer and another poster installed little plastic deflectors near the open ends of the end rims to deflect the stream into the tub. Another poster made little deflector ridges with silicone caulk.

Now, if you just re-imagine my tub analogy to a very shallow tub, maybe 2" deep, you have the shower tray the OP has been writing about.

The OP did the right thing and actually jacked up the front edge of the tub to level it. See his discussion of "framing."

I agree with his approach, his repair, and his attitude regarding the original assembly. What mystifies me is how the tray could have been installed atilt, given that the floor is plywood or laminate over a level steel frame. The only thing I can think of is that the manufacturer put expanding foam (e.g., Great Stuff) under the tray to give it some rigidity and put too much at the rear, or didn't weight the tray down until the foam set up.

In the old days, plumbers used to "set" or "bed" at tub (even a cast iron tub) into sand-mix concrete or mortar to eliminate give. This is still a good idea, even with plastic shower trays.

[shredjesse]

Perhaps this image will help. It's a 2 dimensional view of the tube from the side. The tub rests on a platform to give it enough height for a drain. The tube is then put in, and there is an inner lip, and an outer lip. The outer lip is secured to the wall.

(I can't paste this as an actual image for some reason, so here is the URL)
http://www.jessenicola.com/offsite/tubIssuePicture.jpg


Please note the image is overstated to make it very obvious what I am talking about. The amount of height difference between the inner lip and outer lip was probably more akin to 15-20mm (under a half inch), but that's all it takes for water to pool up and find it's way to the floor.

This results in the outer lip being lower than the inner lip. Water that hits the outside will begin to pool up in that area. Water being affected by gravity, will try and find a way to flow downwards. The only way for water to return into the tub would be if there were walls on all 4 sides to contain the water, allowing it to pool up higher than the level of the rim. There is no 4th wall however, and with that not being present, all water makes it's way from the rim to the floor.



The manufacturer got a metric ton of these (quite possibly a literal ton) and has stored them for install over years of product line. China has minimum order numbers after all, they'd likely have to order 5 years of tubs at once. Over time while stored, the outer lip has sagged as there is no gusseting or any other forms of support for the outside lip. The manufacturer had people install it, who were none the wiser to the sag and probably don't care anyways.

I would expect to start to hear more of these issues from others.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by shredjesse

Perhaps this image will help. It's a 2 dimensional view of the tube from the side. The tub rests on a platform to give it enough height for a drain. The tube is then put in, and there is an inner lip, and an outer lip. The outer lip is secured to the wall.

(I can't paste this as an actual image for some reason, so here is the URL)
http://www.jessenicola.com/offsite/tubIssuePicture.jpg

Please note the image is overstated to make it very obvious what I am talking about. The amount of height difference between the inner lip and outer lip was probably more akin to 15-20mm (under a half inch), but that's all it takes for water to pool up and find it's way to the floor.

This results in the outer lip being lower than the inner lip. Water that hits the outside will begin to pool up in that area. Water being affected by gravity, will try and find a way to flow downwards. The only way for water to return into the tub would be if there were walls on all 4 sides to contain the water, allowing it to pool up higher than the level of the rim. There is no 4th wall however, and with that not being present, all water makes it's way from the rim to the floor.

This is where I wager the problem arose from:

The manufacturer got a metric ton of these (quite possibly a literal ton) and has stored them for install over years of product line. China has minimum order numbers after all, they'd likely have to order 5 years of tubs at once. Over time while stored, the outer lip has sagged as there is no gusseting or any other forms of support for the outside lip. The manufacturer had people install it, who were none the wiser to the sag and probably don't care anyways.

I would expect to start to hear more of these issues from others.

Okay, I was a little off in my visualization--mostly the sentence that the rim had a small slope toward the tub. So basically you pulled the tub and put a frame around the edges to lift the rim to level or a little above, right?

If they really had a huge supply, maybe they should have stored them upside-down. Or maybe they developed their sag on a slow boat from China.

And the little triangles were supposed to dam the ends, so you had a constant moat around your tub? Not a good solution.

How to include a photo--applies to the web access, not the app:
(You can do this from a computer, phone, or tablet using your web browser,not the app.)

• Have the image (jpg, jpeg, gif, or png) on your device.
• At the top of the editor, click the paper clip icon. (Clicking Attach Files --> Manage attachments at the very bottom does the same thing,)
• You will be able to choose up to five images to include.
• Click Choose file. A file browser will open. Navigate to the file on your device and select Open.
• Repeat the above step up to four more times if needed.
• Click Upload
• Click Close Window

[shredjesse]

Yep, that's pretty much it. Frame around outside giving tub rim an ever so slight slope INTO the tub.

I'd be surprised if this doesn't start to become a normal issue for them, kind of like the plastic toilets having the issue with pooling gross water, blech.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by shredjesse

Yep, that's pretty much it. Frame around outside giving tub rim an ever so slight slope INTO the tub.

I'd be surprised if this doesn't start to become a normal issue for them, kind of like the plastic toilets having the issue with pooling gross water, blech.

Would a future fix be to simply put a 1x2 strips on the walls at the proper height before installing the tub?

[shredjesse]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Would a future fix be to simply put a 1x2 strips on the walls at the proper height before installing the tub?

By RV construction standards, YEP! Just put a bunch of staples through some 1x2's into that walls. That'll do, maybe, possibly... at least until it's out of warranty.

By my laziest standards, maybe. 1x2's, staples, and GLUE might be robust enough. Those walls are pretty cheap and flimsy.

By my "I never want to fix this again" or "no kill like overkill" standards, the wall is simply too cheap and not robust enough. Use 2x2 to build an external frame the entire way around, the wall isn't robust sturdy enough to be reliable.