Furrion 12v fridge

[SantaFe big sky]

Originally Posted by babock

Depending on the tow vehicle, you often have to run heavier wire to get any kind of current to keep up with a fridge or charge the battery.

If you have a lithium battery like a battleborn be sure and put a dc-dc charge controller in to limit what the battery will draw. A lithium battery can absorb so much current you can burn up you alternator, burn the wire or blow the fuse whichever comes first. A nice setup would be to come off a 25 amp six circuit (my F250 has 2 25 and 2 15 aux switches on the dash. Or you could come off you truck battery with a pair of fused cables and run them through your frame channel. Run them to a plug on your bumper then have a line going into your trailer and into a dc-dc controller and you can actually charge you rv batteries while driving (as opposed to that trickle on the 7 pin).

[babock]

Absolutely. I always recommend a DC to DC converter

Originally Posted by SantaFe big sky

If you have a lithium battery like a battleborn be sure and put a dc-dc charge controller in to limit what the battery will draw. A lithium battery can absorb so much current you can burn up you alternator, burn the wire or blow the fuse whichever comes first. A nice setup would be to come off a 25 amp six circuit (my F250 has 2 25 and 2 15 aux switches on the dash. Or you could come off you truck battery with a pair of fused cables and run them through your frame channel. Run them to a plug on your bumper then have a line going into your trailer and into a dc-dc controller and you can actually charge you rv batteries while driving (as opposed to that trickle on the 7 pin).

[kszac]

Originally Posted by SantaFe big sky

If you have a lithium battery like a battleborn be sure and put a dc-dc charge controller in to limit what the battery will draw. A lithium battery can absorb so much current you can burn up you alternator, burn the wire or blow the fuse whichever comes first. A nice setup would be to come off a 25 amp six circuit (my F250 has 2 25 and 2 15 aux switches on the dash. Or you could come off you truck battery with a pair of fused cables and run them through your frame channel. Run them to a plug on your bumper then have a line going into your trailer and into a dc-dc controller and you can actually charge you rv batteries while driving (as opposed to that trickle on the 7 pin).

Wow, thanks for the good information. We also have a F-250 diesel with aux switches. Can you point me in the right direction on how I would set that up? It's a great idea. We plan on doing some long distance trips next spring, so this would come in handy.

[kszac]

No, the batteries were about 1/3 depleted on a 3 hour drive while running the fridge. I was very disappointed, they advertised that you could run it for days on two batteries and a solar panel. My fridge is an Ever Chill WD-282FWDC. Sure if you don't figure any other battery usage like water pump and vent fan. I didn't even use the radio. Not even close to working. We usually camp with electricity, but this year with Covid, we could not go to Canada where we usually camp. I won't camp in Michigan State Parks for the most part; over crowded and not into the party scene. We've been going to National Forest Campground which are beautiful, but primitive.

[SantaFe big sky]

Originally Posted by kszac

Wow, thanks for the good information. We also have a F-250 diesel with aux switches. Can you point me in the right direction on how I would set that up? It's a great idea. We plan on doing some long distance trips next spring, so this would come in handy.

I haven’t hooked up to them so treat the advice with wide skepticism. Anyway, the Ford dealership told me to locate the wires Depending on model year they might be under steering column by the fuse panel or in the case of my 2015 in the engine compartment near the firewall on the drivers side. Four wires. I looked it up there are two 30 amp And two 10 amp.

You should be able to tie in to these wires (figure out the circuit size you are connecting to). and run your line to the rear bumper or inside the bed if you have a 5th wheel. Put a dc-dc converter On the trailer side of your wiring in order to protect your alternator and circuit.

Alternately you could tie directly to your battery, run a pos and neg back to the trailer with an in line fuse on the pos side. If you don’t add the dc dc converter the trailer can pull anything it wants or vice versa between the truck and trailer. The converter gives you control over charging rate, alternator protection and keeps current from flowing backwards and draining the rv battery. If you directly tied to your truck battery you could use one of the 10 amp up fitter switches to turn the dc-dc charger on and off.

Here is an example of the charger:
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...ion-tr%20smart

[babock]

Originally Posted by SantaFe big sky

I haven’t hooked up to them so treat the advice with wide skepticism. Anyway, the Ford dealership told me to locate the wires Depending on model year they might be under steering column by the fuse panel or in the case of my 2015 in the engine compartment near the firewall on the drivers side. Four wires. I looked it up there are two 30 amp And two 10 amp.

You should be able to tie in to these wires (figure out the circuit size you are connecting to). and run your line to the rear bumper or inside the bed if you have a 5th wheel. Put a dc-dc converter On the trailer side of your wiring in order to protect your alternator and circuit.

Alternately you could tie directly to your battery, run a pos and neg back to the trailer with an in line fuse on the pos side. If you don’t add the dc dc converter the trailer can pull anything it wants or vice versa between the truck and trailer. The converter gives you control over charging rate, alternator protection and keeps current from flowing backwards and draining the rv battery. If you directly tied to your truck battery you could use one of the 10 amp up fitter switches to turn the dc-dc charger on and off.

Here is an example of the charger:
https://www.victronenergy.com/dc-dc-...ion-tr%20smart

The wires going from those locations aren't even close to being large enough for that Victron DC to DC converter you just posted. With a voltage drop, you could be pulling close to 40A with a 30A output DC to DC converter.

[SantaFe big sky]

Originally Posted by babock

The wires going from those locations aren't even close to being large enough for that Victron DC to DC converter you just posted. With a voltage drop, you could be pulling close to 40A with a 30A output DC to DC converter.

Examples were illustrative not a schematic or a design. However if you ran 2/0 cables from your battery then it would not be too small. I guess I just assumed that anyone doing a self install would size their charger, fuses and wires appropriately - my bad. Perhaps this video with Ronnie Dennis would be more instructive - fast forward to 14:00 where he explains a 40 amp DC-DC charger install with detail sufficient for even the most exacting forum participant wanting explicit instructions:

https://youtu.be/_m2KlLqKCaM

[babock]

Originally Posted by SantaFe big sky

Examples were illustrative not a schematic or a design. However if you ran 2/0 cables from your battery then it would not be too small. I guess I just assumed that anyone doing a self install would size their charger, fuses and wires appropriately - my bad. Perhaps this video with Ronnie Dennis would be more instructive - fast forward to 14:00 where he explains a 40 amp DC-DC charger install with detail sufficient for even the most exacting forum participant wanting explicit instructions:

https://youtu.be/_m2KlLqKCaM

OK..thought you were suggesting using those wires. In my F-150, that wire is 14 AWG at the largest. Might even be 16 AWG.

BTW, a friend who is a member on this page just put in the 18A Victron Orion and its charging his Lithiums at 25A so they are underspeccing these. Put in a lot bigger wire for margin if you install the 30A unit.

[kszac]

Thanks again for the information. Our F250 is also a 2015, so they should be easy to find. I'll have my DH check it out.

[Stevemal]

The Furrion 10 CF is pure junk for a camper. Ours runs for 45-60 minutes every hour. Spec says it draws 11 amps. At 8:30 at night after running my generator for 8.5 hours we got up 9 hours later to a battery @ 11.8. Didn't sleep well either having to listen to it.

[Stevemal]

Originally Posted by babock

My comment was more to the fact that you think a 50W or 100W panel is going to keep up with a 12V compressor fridge. Doesn't really matter how efficient the panel is. 50W is 50W no matter how efficient the panel is.

Furrion calls it high efficiency, however their 50W panel only puts out 2.7 amps per the manual. The fridge draws 11 amps. My Grp. 27 battery is down to 11.8 volts in 9 hours overnight. And dropped .4 volts in 3 hours in bright sun on the arrival day. I suspect I will have many unhappy neighbors on my next 4 day dry camp as the generator will have to run most of the time. Takes 8-10 hours with the genny and inverter to charge back up to 13.4

[babock]

Originally Posted by Stevemal

Furrion calls it high efficiency, however their 50W panel only puts out 2.7 amps per the manual. The fridge draws 11 amps. My Grp. 27 battery is down to 11.8 volts in 9 hours overnight. And dropped .4 volts in 3 hours in bright sun on the arrival day. I suspect I will have many unhappy neighbors on my next 4 day dry camp as the generator will have to run most of the time. Takes 8-10 hours with the genny and inverter to charge back up to 13.4

Well...if someone is bad at math and thinks a 50W or 100W panel is going to replace the power the fridge is drawing, that's on them for believing the story they are being told.


Having one 27 sized battery and thinking that is sufficient is kinda laughable too.


Time to go with the system I have which is 200AH of lithium and 700W or more of solar.


Also, lead acid batteries charge slow, that's just the way they are. That's why it takes so long to charge.

[Stevemal]

Originally Posted by babock

Well...if someone is bad at math and thinks a 50W or 100W panel is going to replace the power the fridge is drawing, that's on them for believing the story they are being told.


Having one 27 sized battery and thinking that is sufficient is kinda laughable too.


Time to go with the system I have which is 200AH of lithium and 700W or more of solar.


Also, lead acid batteries charge slow, that's just the way they are. That's why it takes so long to charge.

While I don't disagree with your statements. I was sorta naive when we bought the camper. The saleman said with the 50W juice pack the 12V fridge would go 7 days on the single battery and 12 days on 100W solar and 2 batteries. I certainly doubted the claim, but figured it would have propane also as I had never heard of 12V only having always had old campers. Now they are saying 50-60 hours, but trust me it only goes a few before the battery is below 12.5 from 13.5. They didn't mention that it draws 11 amps and runs at least 50% of the day. I think we got sucked in by the excitement of buying our first brand new camper. I feel Forest River should be the ones having to spring for more power, it's not my fault the design sucks. Live & Learn I guess. I only dry camp so will likely be trading it in in the spring!

[babock]

Just get the proper amount of battery and solar. My next fridge we be a 12v only model. Maybe not a Furion but some brand.

BTW, 12.5 is almost a completely charged battery.

Originally Posted by Stevemal

While I don't disagree with your statements. I was sorta naive when we bought the camper. The saleman said with the 50W juice pack the 12V fridge would go 7 days on the single battery and 12 days on 100W solar and 2 batteries. I certainly doubted the claim, but figured it would have propane also as I had never heard of 12V only having always had old campers. Now they are saying 50-60 hours, but trust me it only goes a few before the battery is below 12.5 from 13.5. They didn't mention that it draws 11 amps and runs at least 50% of the day. I think we got sucked in by the excitement of buying our first brand new camper. I feel Forest River should be the ones having to spring for more power, it's not my fault the design sucks. Live & Learn I guess. I only dry camp so will likely be trading it in in the spring!

[Bhrava]

What they don't tell you is you have to put it in off grid mode to get that kind of performance.

● Where grid power is not available, the “OFF GRID” setting
can be used to maximize battery life.
● During travel, where a tow vehicle will provide constant
battery charging, it is recommended to operate the
refrigerator at a normal temperature setting dial (refer to
“Temperature Control” section). Once you have arrived
and are dependent on your battery reserve, rotate the
knob to the “OFF GRID” setting of the dial.
● It is recommended to store meat and dairy products
towards the back and middle shelf of your refrigerator.
Utilize the other space of the refrigerator for beverages,
condiments, and produce.
NOTE: Operation time of refrigerator in "OFF GRID" mode
depends on, but not limited to, factors such as; ambient
temperature, battery capacity, condition of battery,
thermostat setting, food qty, and frequency of door openings.
Reference the below chart to adjust operation time based on
ambient temperature.
Ambient Temperature Operation Time
68°F(20°C) 100%
77°F(25°C) 80%
90°F(32.2°C) 55%
110°F(43°C) 25%

https://cdn.accentuate.io/2164270432...3398567291.pdf

This manual did not come with the fridge in my trailer, had to look it up online.

Whether or not it is true, don't know, haven't tried it, but a 100ah battery, yeah, right. The panel does recover the battery quickly when nothing is running, but at normal settings, it won't keep up.

[SantaFe big sky]

Originally Posted by Stevemal

While I don't disagree with your statements. I was sorta naive when we bought the camper. The saleman said with the 50W juice pack the 12V fridge would go 7 days on the single battery and 12 days on 100W solar and 2 batteries. I certainly doubted the claim, but figured it would have propane also as I had never heard of 12V only having always had old campers. Now they are saying 50-60 hours, but trust me it only goes a few before the battery is below 12.5 from 13.5. They didn't mention that it draws 11 amps and runs at least 50% of the day. I think we got sucked in by the excitement of buying our first brand new camper. I feel Forest River should be the ones having to spring for more power, it's not my fault the design sucks. Live & Learn I guess. I only dry camp so will likely be trading it in in the spring!

Well that’s not very encouraging.

I’m not a big fan of most of the RV salesmen I’ve met. There are some knowledgeable professionals out there but like used car salesmen the entry level requirements are being able to spell “RV” and fog a mirror. And if their card has their name handwritten on it, we’ll go figure. I have been fed so much bull crap by RV salesmen I tune them out.

I’m guessing the dealer put a quote “deep cycle” battery in your rig. These marine/deep cycle batteries are actually built for starting and Light duty deep cycling. So the plates are more like a starting battery to give a big initial boost. As a result they don’t score real well on the long draw. And if you drop below 50% they age out quickly.

If your fridge is drawing 11 amps with a 75% duty cycle then just for the fridge you would be drawing a whopping 198 Amps a day. My previous RV with residential fridge running on an inverter didn’t draw anywhere near that much. i would check the actual draw. what is on the nameplate is the max current draw which is what is required to start up the compressor and fan motor both at the same time. The actual run amperage will give you a better feel for how much battery you are going to need. I’m a big believer in getting the data before drawing too many conclusions. If the draw is really 198 amps you would need 4 Trojan T105 6v batteries that would weigh in at 240lbs! If it is more like 5 amps draw you would only need 2 T105’s (assuming 50% max discharge). So I would slap an amp meter on the fridge and see what is really happening before you make any decisions.

If your draw is closer to 100 amps (and I hope it is less than that) then you would need more like 300 watts of solar not 50. It’s like selling you a rig with a propane fridge and only installing a 1 pound camping propane bottle. Might want to ask that salesman where he pulled that number out of that he gave you.

This might be helpful-

Percent. Flooded. Gel. AGM
100% 12.70+ 12.85+ 12.80+
75% 12.40 12.65 12.60
50% 12.20 12.35 12.30
25% 12.00 12.00 12.00
0% 11.80 11.80 11.80

Trojan numbers for the golf cart batteries run slightly different
Spec
% Gravity. 6v 8v 12v 24v 36v 48v
100 1.277 6.37 8.49 12.73 25.46 38.20 50.93
90 1.258. 6.31 8.41 12.62 25.24 37.85 50.47
80 1.238 6.25 8.33 12.50 25.00 37.49 49.99
70 1.217 6.19 8.25 12.37 24.74 37.12 49.49
60 1.195 6.12 8.16 12.27 24.48 36.72 48.96
50 1.172 6.02 8.07 12.10 24.20 36.31 48.41
40 1.148 5.98 7.97 11.89 23.92 35.87 47.83
30 1.124 5.91 7.88 11.81 23.63 35.44 47.26
20 1.098 5.83 7.77 11.66 23.32 34.97 46.63
10 1.073 5.75 7.67 11.51 23.02 34.52 46.03

So a lead acid battery typically takes all day to charge, it accepts a charge pretty quickly until it gets to 70% and then gets painfully slow, like as much as 7-10 hours more to fully charge. Fighting that with a generator droning away sounds awfully annoying. Maybe with a combo of genset charging and then letting solar finish off charging you might get by with less. Also while the solar is putting out it supplies your rig first and then charges the battery, so you might be sizing your battery for more like 18 hours instead of 24. I know that isn’t much consolation but if your are trying to make do without spending a lot of money it might allow you to Narrow the margin.

Solar has gotten pretty easy, a decent 100 watt panel can be had on Amazon for $80 and a 20 amp PWM charge controller for $15-$40 depending on quality. A DIY 200 watt solar suitcase could be built for under $200 and go a long way towards mitigating your problem fridge. I like the idea of solar because of the noise it makes.

We take delivery of our Cherokee in about 3 weeks and I’ll let you know what the current draws are after I can get my ammeter on the actual rig. Maybe then we can figure out if this problem is solvable.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Bhrava

What they don't tell you is you have to put it in off grid mode to get that kind of performance.



https://cdn.accentuate.io/2164270432...3398567291.pdf

This manual did not come with the fridge in my trailer, had to look it up online.

Whether or not it is true, don't know, haven't tried it, but a 100ah battery, yeah, right. The panel does recover the battery quickly when nothing is running, but at normal settings, it won't keep up.

Interesting... first I've seen reference to this 'off grid' setting.
Thanks!

[Stevemal]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Interesting... first I've seen reference to this 'off grid' setting.
Thanks!

My manual doesn't say "Arctic" but has the same Model number for the 10 CF but the temp control doesn't have the "off grid" setting. Besides if set that low it wouldn't be keeping anything cool. I'm turned up to just between the highest marks to get 35 degrees at shut off, then it doesn't come back on until 43-45 degrees.

[FrankH35]

I love my Everchill 12V. I would never have a gas/electric combo as they're nearly half the size. Mine cools fast and has a 10.7 cubic foot capacity. A new camper with the 6 cubic foot gas/electric combo would be a deal breaker for me personally. If I dry camped I'm sure I'd feel differently.

[Stevemal]

Originally Posted by FrankH35

I love my Everchill 12V. I would never have a gas/electric combo as they're nearly half the size. Mine cools fast and has a 10.7 cubic foot capacity. A new camper with the 6 cubic foot gas/electric combo would be a deal breaker for me personally. If I dry camped I'm sure I'd feel differently.

You're right about the room Frank, but having to run the genny all day just to get the fridge thru the night is ridiculous. Just think whats going to happen in the fall when I need heat too. Probably have to run the genny all night as well. Bettin my fellow campers are going to love listening to that 24 hours a day. Campers have certainly been downgraded since my last one, a 2001 Keystone that went for 4 days easily with both battery power and water and had smaller tanks and battery.