Late Stage Boon docking

[RepWI]

Last week found me and my 2021 Wolf Pup BHS in the Sylvania Wilderness area of Michigan’s UP. My camping preferences are now state and federal forest lands rather than a traditional TT camp with full hook ups. I seek advice meeting what I think are my rather simple requirements for boon docking. With the increase in people accessing the outdoors I will utilize Hip Camps as well. Hip Camps are popping up all over and offer a niche experience. They tend to be plots of land with unique features without the glamor. Many Hip Camps have only a few sites and most offer no shore power or dumping stations.

Following is a bit of information about myself. This offers me an opportunity to define what I think I need. With your help my needs will be further identified. That will clarify my priorities for planning and budgeting…

[RepWI]

At 71 I now enjoy a:

2021 Wolf Pup BHS
Electric Refrigerator only
12 v battery
50w integrated Solar Panel as purchased

Tow Vehicle = 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500 truck

I am hoping that my trailer days will last five years. I did own a truck camper for a couple of years. Now I want to drop my sleeping unit and run into town for a pizza. Thus the Wolf Pup. I view the Pup as my terminal TT experience.

[RepWI]

Most of my camping will be in the midwest. I live in west central Wisconsin and access MN, Upper MI and the Dakotas. As a former bicycle tourist camper I found I like to be home after 10 days or so. I do not see wintering in the south as a priority. My camping cycle would include a cool midwest early April to a cool mid November cycle.

When I define boon docking I see it now as being in a federal or state forest that is accessed by paved roads. I desire a quiet place with internet access. I will read, walk, enjoy talking to neighbors, thoughtful cooking and campfires. Simple. Modern. But not necessarily glamor.

[RepWI]

I am a well established home brewer of beer. I began my hobby making beer in my kitchen. I enjoyed slowly and deliberately, step by step, developing my brewing skills and equipment. I now have a dedicated brewery where I produce 15 gallon batches at a time. I know the time, energy and expertise of forum members offering valuable tips to new people entering a hobby. I will not waste your time. But I respectfully do request your time, experience and knowledge. To Begin……

[RepWI]

Where do I start this late stage boon docking build?…

Might I already have what I need? Do I simply need to learn processes and procedures? If I must add equipment, where is the best place to begin? How can I do so step by step? In short, how do I define my needs within the constraints of the equipment I own? If my need excels my equipment what is the best cost effective path for upgrades?

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by RepWI

Where do I start this late stage boon docking build?…



Might I already have what I need? Do I simply need to learn processes and procedures? If I must add equipment, where is the best place to begin? How can I do so step by step? In short, how do I define my needs within the constraints of the equipment I own? If my need excels my equipment what is the best cost effective path for upgrades?

First, not even close to the amount of solar needed, for a 12v fridge alone, if that's what you have. Minimum would be 200w of solar. Only saying it's electric, isn't enough information.
Second, you've provided very little information, about the most important thing, Batteries. What type, what size, how many, what ratings. Only saying it's a 12v battery isn't enough information.
Third, inverter generator?
Fourth, how will you resupply water?
Fifth, how will you get rid of excess gray water?
When asking for help with a complex question like yours, it helps us help you if you provided as much information as possible, about what is in your trailer.
Such as make and model number if available.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by bikendan

When asking for help with a complex question like yours, it helps us help you if you provided as much information as possible, about what is in your trailer.
Such as make and model number if available.

Dan, the OP did say (Posts 1 and 2) that he has a 2021 Wolf Pup BHS. That's got to be a Cherokee Wolf Pup, and the only model appears to be 16BHS, a (nominal) 16 foot bunk house model.

The outstanding question is whether it has a compression or absorption refrigerator.

[RepWI]

Originally Posted by bikendan

First, not even close to the amount of solar needed, for a 12v fridge alone, if that's what you have. Minimum would be 200w of solar. Only saying it's electric, isn't enough information.
Second, you've provided very little information, about the most important thing, Batteries. What type, what size, how many, what ratings. Only saying it's a 12v battery isn't enough information.
Third, inverter generator?
Fourth, how will you resupply water?
Fifth, how will you get rid of excess gray water?
When asking for help with a complex question like yours, it helps us help you if you provided as much information as possible, about what is in your trailer.
Such as make and model number if available.

Thanks for your response bikendan. I have updated my sig file to include the trailer and tow vehicle.

2021 FR Cherokee Wolf Pup 16 BHS pulled by a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500 Diesel, dual battery.

First - The refrigerator/Freezer is a 10.7 cubic ft. Cannon 12v drawing 11 amps are used to bring temperatures down at startup. Then three to four amps will maintain temperatures. There is an unused outdoor kitchen refrigerator only used with shore power. I do use a Resmed Airsense 10 C-Pap. It draws 1.06 amps @ 12v DC. I would estimate eight hours/day.

Second- The camper came standard with an Expedition Deep Cycle RV DC27 12v battery. The amperage is not listed.

Third - I prefer not going with a generator. I will minimize my usage by using lanterns, bluetooth speakers, powerpacks for charging cell phones. I will add frozen gallon jugs of water to the frig and maintain as low a temperature as I can. (I am willing to begin an upgrade plan for solar and battery storage. That is basically the advice I seek.)

Fourth - Water. I will jug potable water from home. Use the frozen as it thaws. My boondocking will not place me too far from water sources.

Fifth - Gray water - As part of my camping research planning I will determine if there are nearby dump sites I could access as needed.

Thanks Dan for starting me on this road.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Dan, the OP did say (Posts 1 and 2) that he has a 2021 Wolf Pup BHS. That's got to be a Cherokee Wolf Pup, and the only model appears to be 16BHS, a (nominal) 16 foot bunk house model.



The outstanding question is whether it has a compression or absorption refrigerator.

Larry, i was referring to the things inside the trailer.

[RepWI]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Dan, the OP did say (Posts 1 and 2) that he has a 2021 Wolf Pup BHS. That's got to be a Cherokee Wolf Pup, and the only model appears to be 16BHS, a (nominal) 16 foot bunk house model.

The outstanding question is whether it has a compression or absorption refrigerator.

The Cannon is run by a compressor. Thanks Larry.

[RepWI]

It is obvious I will need to increase energy storage. What is a good process to determine my usage? From there I look to panels and storage to design a system to meet my need?

[tomkatb]

A cpap is a big user. I will assume you have the 12 volt cord for power. Then too a dc outlet near the bed. The cpap usage you quoted is about 40% of mine. Plugging into the ac system with a whole house inverter uses substantially more power.

No inverters. We have a 400 watt inverter for the occasional use of the tv.

With a cpap and electric refrigerator you will need over 100 amps of battery per day. I would assume You currently have less than that. The furnace is also a big user.

You will need: 200 amps of lithium batteries and 800 watts of solar panels. Battery monitor. New converter for lithium batteries. 2000 watt inverter generator.

Solar will not work so well in the Midwest. Too many trees and clouds.

Plan your upgrades carefully! Study up.

[rsdata]

Lots to consider, but you are providing answers as you question specifics.

Your single group 27 battery is likely rated about 100 amp hours, although useful amp hours are half that... so you got 50 to work with. Most who boondock have at least 2 batteries to give them 200 amp hours with 100 amp hours useable using flooded lead acid batteries. And most that use 2 go with two, 6 volt golf cart batteries with about 210 amp hours/ 100 useable. For best results wtart with two fresh/same batteries and tie them in parallel or series depending on which you get to achieve 12 VDC.

You will find that the 12V only fridge is the energy hog in your trailer. Learn from the fridge manual how to turn the unit off/on to conserve power. This is mfg. dependent. The fridge itself once it is cold is a pretty good cooler when turned off.

You need an inverter generator to keep up when solar is not abundant or enough to meet your needs like on rainy days. There are many choices available around $500... 2000 watts is popular. Youtube has tons of reviews.

You might look at some portable solar panels along with additional battery power for some of your needs. Portable so you can follow the sun rather then be a slave where you park.

I found the youtube channel HOBOTECH to be useful learning about solar generators and solar panels. a 1,000 watt solar generator and a couple of 100 watt panels would be a good investment that will last a long time. Will power your C-pap fine for at least a couple of nights without recharging.

You might enjoy a youtube channel called Traveling Robert... a single male who enjoys camping in his smaller trailer., often without hookups Lots to learn by watching at your leisure.

Finally, internet via your cell phone/hotspot will be your best option. No cell signal? You can purchase cell antenna boosters ($500), but that will not take you everywhere that you may want to go with internet.

[RepWI]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

A cpap is a big user. I will assume you have the 12 volt cord for power. Then too a dc outlet near the bed. The cpap usage you quoted is about 40% of mine. Plugging into the ac system with a whole house inverter uses substantially more power.

No inverters. We have a 400 watt inverter for the occasional use of the tv.

With a cpap and electric refrigerator you will need over 100 amps of battery per day. I would assume You currently have less than that. The furnace is also a big user.

You will need: 200 amps of lithium batteries and 800 watts of solar panels. Battery monitor. New converter for lithium batteries. 2000 watt inverter generator.

Solar will not work so well in the Midwest. Too many trees and clouds.

Plan your upgrades carefully! Study up.

Tomkatb writes, "Plan your upgrades carefully! Study up." Yes Tom, I am approaching this build much like my brewery build. Step by step, sit back and plan some more.

Tom assumed that I, "...have the 12 volt cord for power. Then too a dc outlet near the bed..." Below is a link to my C Pap supplier. I will make sure I have the DC to DC adapter cord. I think that is the cord he referred. That is the most efficient use of power for this application.

I do have access to a DC outlet while I sleep. I am planning on treating that outlet the same as if I had a battery on the floor using alligator clips to power the C Pap.

The furnace is no worry as I won't use it. A couple of years ago I spent most of the winter on the plains of North Dakota.

https://document.resmed.com/en-us/do...de_glo_eng.pdf

[RepWI]

Originally Posted by rsdata

Lots to consider, but you are providing answers as you question specifics.

Your single group 27 battery is likely rated about 100 amp hours, although useful amp hours are half that... so you got 50 to work with. Most who boondock have at least 2 batteries to give them 200 amp hours with 100 amp hours useable using flooded lead acid batteries. And most that use 2 go with two, 6 volt golf cart batteries with about 210 amp hours/ 100 useable. For best results wtart with two fresh/same batteries and tie them in parallel or series depending on which you get to achieve 12 VDC.

You will find that the 12V only fridge is the energy hog in your trailer. Learn from the fridge manual how to turn the unit off/on to conserve power. This is mfg. dependent. The fridge itself once it is cold is a pretty good cooler when turned off.

You need an inverter generator to keep up when solar is not abundant or enough to meet your needs like on rainy days. There are many choices available around $500... 2000 watts is popular. Youtube has tons of reviews.

You might look at some portable solar panels along with additional battery power for some of your needs. Portable so you can follow the sun rather then be a slave where you park.

I found the youtube channel HOBOTECH to be useful learning about solar generators and solar panels. a 1,000 watt solar generator and a couple of 100 watt panels would be a good investment that will last a long time. Will power your C-pap fine for at least a couple of nights without recharging.

You might enjoy a youtube channel called Traveling Robert... a single male who enjoys camping in his smaller trailer., often without hookups Lots to learn by watching at your leisure.

Finally, internet via your cell phone/hotspot will be your best option. No cell signal? You can purchase cell antenna boosters ($500), but that will not take you everywhere that you may want to go with internet.

Thanks for your time rsdata.

With what has been offered by you and others in this thread I believe I can now begin offering ideas on a step by step power build for my TT. Two six V batteries will be considered in the mix. That, along with portable solar panels.

The web will be accessed through my phones hot spot option. I already use it that way with unlimited data.

TO PROCEED: I think in my next post I will revisit what boon docking means to me. That, and my style of camping preferences will begin to define more closely what my energy needs might be. Then, consider that info and tie it into the equipment needed to meet those needs. Part of that package of knowledge will include my personal experience with minimizing my activities to conserve power needs. That is the challenge I enjoy.

Thanks for the research opportunities. I do consider all of this as part of my camping experience.

[RepWI]

As I developed other hobbies over the years I always knew where I wanted to end up. I would purchase or make quality equipment always with the final goal in mind. When brewing five gallon batches of beer and deciding to increase the capacity of my hobby I set the goal of brewing 15 gallon batches.

As I upgraded to the ten gallon brewery stage I acquired equipment I needed for the 15 gallon level. I built the ten gallon systems to roll up to the terminal brewery size I desired. I do not like to purchase the same piece of equipment twice.

My experience tells me that after ten days away I want to be home. When I say boon docking I am not talking about heading to the top of a mountain. Rather, I will discover a quite forest land or hip camp that is inexpensive to enjoy for up to four days. More than likely I will travel less than 100 miles from home. If I find my rig, weather or attitude no longer works at that site I will move. You will not see my TT peppered with all the stickers of the states I visit. Remember the title of the thread…”Late Stage…”

In the next five years I want to enjoy simple camping. I don’t desire tourist parks with amenities galore. I do though at this stage in life want more comfort. Budget is a concern of course. And, “getting there” is half the fun. Thus, this forum and web research plays a role.

My needs are simple. A bit of fishing, a hike, some reading makes me happy. I do like to cook and may very well spend the afternoon preparing a meal.

With that said, I do need electrical power to support my activities. Your help and experience is appreciated in this power build.

[RepWI]

Originally Posted by RepWI

Thanks for your response bikendan. I have updated my sig file to include the trailer and tow vehicle.

2021 FR Cherokee Wolf Pup 16 BHS pulled by a 2002 Chevy Silverado 2500 Diesel, dual battery.

First - The refrigerator/Freezer is a 10.7 cubic ft. Cannon 12v drawing 11 amps are used to bring temperatures down at startup. Then three to four amps will maintain temperatures. There is an unused outdoor kitchen refrigerator only used with shore power. I do use a Resmed Airsense 10 C-Pap. It draws 1.06 amps @ 12v DC. I would estimate eight hours/day.

Second- The camper came standard with an Expedition Deep Cycle RV DC27 12v battery. The amperage is not listed.

Third - I prefer not going with a generator. I will minimize my usage by using lanterns, bluetooth speakers, powerpacks for charging cell phones. I will add frozen gallon jugs of water to the frig and maintain as low a temperature as I can. (I am willing to begin an upgrade plan for solar and battery storage. That is basically the advice I seek.)

Fourth - Water. I will jug potable water from home. Use the frozen as it thaws. My boondocking will not place me too far from water sources.

Fifth - Gray water - As part of my camping research planning I will determine if there are nearby dump sites I could access as needed.

Thanks Dan for starting me on this road.

EDIT: When discussing meal prep I discovered I do use an air fryer. It is 120 VAC at 1500 W. I would like to keep this in the mix for boon docking. But I realize it may use too much energy.

[tomkatb]

Part of the learning!

P=IV. Thus, 1500 watts is 120 amps of battery per hour. Thus you need a minimum 2000 watt inverter. The inverter turned on at idle consumes 20-40 amp hours per day. So, you need a switch to turn it off when not needed. Converting dc to ac inverters are typically 80 to 85% efficient. So you need roughly 120 + 24 amps in the conversion. Thus 144 amp hours.

A set of gc2(golf cart)6 volt batteries give about 220 amp hours. However, you can only consume 50% or it damages the battery. 110 amp hours.

Thus with two gc2 batteries you can run the air fryer less than an hour. 110/144 hours. We love ours in the sticks and bricks.

With a cpap machine, electric fridge and the air fryer. 2 gc2 batteries will not last long.

First purchase for me would be a battery monitor to help your learning. Also a 2200 watt inverter generator.

My DW is from Michigan, downriver in Wyandotte. Solar does not work well in that state. Way too much cloud cover and trees in the parks. Too far north.

[RepWI]

Given the information above it is time to take a stab at developing a plan to upgrade my boon docking power systems. My intent is to build just above current need without overspending.

Your questions and concerns are welcome. I especially need your scientific knowledge on power and capacity.

Research the Wolf Pups unseen ghost usage of power and search for solutions.

Learn to operate the various power using systems efficiently.

Consider supplementing any lighting systems with independent LED lights and lanterns. They can be recharged when connected to shore power or excess solar power.

1. Start with the purchase of a solar generator. This equipment will support the C Pap need immediately.
2. Replace the one 12v deep cell battery with two 6v golf cart batteries.
3. Add 200 watts of solar panel power via suitcase with extension cords.
4. Evaluate.

Edits & Additions

Pick up testing equipment for batteries.
Install a battery monitor.

[bikendan]

I think the easiest path for using the air fryer, is a 2000w inverter generator. Just run it when you want to use the fryer or microwave.
Way easier than going through all the extra work and it is always a great backup power source.
A decent quiet 2000w inverter generator can be purchased for under $500.