Mislabled new RV trailer - Wolf Pup 16BHS

[D W]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Here's the Federal requirements:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/571.110

If you want to get all of your money back, I would look at having a lawyer look into the possibility of a violation of Federal labelling requirements.

Maybe contact your region's NHTSA office?
https://www.nhtsa.gov/about-nhtsa

I don't believe that "yellow" label is a Federal (FMVSS) label. The top label with the VIN, MFGR, MODEL, GVWR, GAWR, and tire/wheel size is the one that counts.

[Mexglx]

Originally Posted by wmtire

Are you sure you are not confusing the kilograms and pounds. I see 3877 pounds gvw on this label.Attachment 263496

I am sure. The 3877# GVW is the Gross vehicle weight which equals the weight of the RV + All cargo. Its not the weight of the RV itself. The the GAWR (gross axle weight rating) is 3500# which means that 377# or more must be on the tongue in order for the GAWR not to be exceeded. 3877 GVW-377 tongue weight=3500 GAWR.

[D W]

Originally Posted by Mexglx

I am sure. The 3877# GVW is the Gross vehicle weight which equals the weight of the RV + All cargo. Its not the weight of the RV itself. The the GAWR (gross axle weight rating) is 3500# which means that 377# or more must be on the tongue in order for the GAWR not to be exceeded. 3877 GVW-377 tongue weight=3500 GAWR.

So, UVW (3097) + CCC (780) = GVWR (3877)

"Loaded" at say 3800, your TW should be at least 12%, not 10% . 12% = 456

With a properly set up WDH that's 456 transferred to the TV

I showed the pic of the white bar coded sticker to my dealer. He said that is an inventory control tag for the chassis (frame & axles). The only thing relevant on that sticker is the last 6 digits which become the sequential number on the final VIN.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

I would think you would have a small claims court case since the labels put on by the manufacturer are clearly erroneous. It probably is a violation of DOT safety standards as well. But you need to jump on it right away, you can't have the trailer for 6 months and then complain about it.

Not supposed to give legal advice here, Commander, but since you did I'll observe that in most states, Small Claims court awards are limited to a few thousand dollars. That won't help much. (That's why it's called Small Claims.)

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by PJSNorwood

I wouldn't tow anything heavier than a small pop-up with a minivan. Maybe you can work something out with the dealer on a different type of unit.

I wouldn't either! The OP's Chrysler Pacifica is a unibody vehicle! It has no frame. Mostly sheet metal. I'd love to see the full towing specs for it including Payload and Maximum tongue weight. Maybe GLXMEX will post the yellow sticker from the car's door frame.

Watch

this short video

to see how the Chrysler Pacifica is put together. They boast about how much metal was removed.

The OP would be well served to trade the Pacifica for a Tahoe, Yukon XL, or Explorer that has a real frame.

[mikeyk101]

Originally Posted by D W

......I showed the pic of the white bar coded sticker to my dealer. He said that is an inventory control tag for the chassis (frame & axles). The only thing relevant on that sticker is the last 6 digits which become the sequential number on the final VIN.

I have the same bar coded sticker on the inside of my door jam and it matches up perfectly with the dry weight of my toy hauler. I think your dealer is wrong on his information.

[mikeyk101]

Definitely mislabeled. The door jam has the wrong dry weight and strangely the yellow Canadian export tag under all the other labels matches up as 730kg is just over 1609lbs. However, the Federal label that is on the top of the label cluster has the correct info as shown on the Forest River website for the Wolf Pup 16BHS.

What I find odd is the yellow Canadian export label lists the dry weight as 730kg and the cargo carrying capacity at 900kgs. I have not seen any camper that can carry more in cargo than the dry weight.

[Mexglx]

This discussion is not about the best tow vehicle design. The unibody IS the frame. Discussing ladder or boxed frame vs unibody is moot in this weight range. This vehicle was built for 3600 capacity. Not 7000, not 12,000. The vehicle door stickers only state vehicle cargo capacity not tow capacity which is in the manual so I attached a pic of that too. The tire load capacity is above our cargo/passenger load including the tongue weight. I am trying to keep everything within the design envelope the manufacturer's publish.

I just wish Forest River would realize their mistake and trip over themselves to buy this back and sell me another one within the unloaded vehicle weight they advertise. I just want a travel trailer with bunk beds 3,100# dry weight or less. If I have to lose the mini fridge, cargo carrier, 15" wheels then fine but sell me that RV at the appropriate price. They could also pay me to remove the mini fridge, swap out the wheels for lighter ones, and take back the cargo carrier but compensate me for not being able to use these things I paid for.

[Mexglx]

Here is the other yellow tag that was on the door frame. Clearly wrong as they say I can carry >2200 lbs of cargo. Regardless I pointed out the impossibility of this sticker being accurate. I toild them i wanted the correct weight before I bought it. They showed the "Certificate of Equipment" I believe. It was serialized with my VIN and showed 3,078. Well it turns out that was wrong.

Also to those mentioning a WDH, I submit that it would not help and only add more weight overall. They weigh around 100# and moving 50#-100# of the tongue weight to the front axle isn't reducing the overall weight. The trailer did not sway while I was driving, so I don't need sway control. The van has a sway control function in the stability control which met our needs for the minimal sway we may have had.

[Chuck_S]

Did you buy this turkey? 22-foot travel trailer that weighs 1610 pounds has gotta be a fantasy.

-- Chuck

[Mexglx]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

Did you buy this turkey? 22-foot travel trailer that weighs 1610 pounds has gotta be a fantasy.

-- Chuck

It is a huge fantasy on Forest Rivers part. I based the decision to buy based on the certificate of equipment that said it weighed 3,078 lbs. They were going to order replacement stickers but even that 3,078 weight is wrong. It actually weighed between 3,440-3,480# according to the last two Cat Scales ticket. I figure the 40# difference is margin of error between the two different scales.

[Chuck_S]

40 pounds is no doubt within the margin of error for the scales which are designed to weigh thousands of pounds not dozens.

Can you handle the actual weight plus all the cargo capacity? If so the stickers don't matter but I'd want the right ones too.

Are you having "tongue weight" problems too? There's another thread running on this and I don't have time this morning to re-read your and the other thread.

-- Chuck

[Mexglx]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

40 pounds is no doubt within the margin of error for the scales which are designed to weigh thousands of pounds not dozens.

Can you handle the actual weight plus all the cargo capacity? If so the stickers don't matter but I'd want the right ones too.

Are you having "tongue weight" problems too? There's another thread running on this and I don't have time this morning to re-read your and the other thread.

-- Chuck

Thanks for the question Chuck. Ultimately, the problem is my GTW is 3,600lbs. This trailer actually weighs 3,480lbs vs the 3,078lbs. I was told. That leaves 120lbs of cargo capacity which is completely insufficient to go camping. I cannot use the RV for its intended purpose of camping. Just loading groceries and luggage takes us over the GTW. We have ~400lbs of camping gear.

[Chuck_S]

None of the weights and ratings seem to make any sense. 120 pounds of cargo capacity is less than 15 gallons of fresh water in the tank.

Any idea the axle weight rating(s)? Should be a sticker or plate on the axle (good bonding exercise for kids to crawl under and look) and also on the data plate. The axles determine the trailer capacity as they support about 90% of the weight.

-- Chuck

[Mexglx]

Yes, GAWR is 3,500. GVW is 3,877. When towing, 377 lbs of the GVW is expected to be carried by the tow vehicle hitch leaving 3,500lbs for the axle. I was planning to carry less than maximum trailer GVW since my van can only tow up to 3,600. This automatically meant that I would be starting at 277Lbs less than trailer GVW. If I loaded the trailer up to 3,600 pounds, around 10% of that would be on the hitch (360lbs). That would leave GTW at 3,240lbs, far below the 3,500lbs GAWR.

[Fork in the road]

Another question that should be asked is what is the GCWR of your vehicle? That would take into account the weight of your trailer when loaded along with your vehicle, and everything in your vehicle including passengers. I would guess that when you add everything together that you would be considerably overweight. Not sure, but I would certainly check. You want to be sure that before you put your family in the vehicle for a trip that you are safe. That is the number one priority when towing. Maybe since there has been so much confusion about the weight, your dealer would work with you on trading it in on something more compatible with your vehicle. I would guess that it would be something much smaller, but at least you would be safe.

[corn18]

That is AFU. I have never seen this before and I have looked at hundreds if not a thousand camper dry weight stickers while shopping. Hope they give your money back.

And don't buy a trailer that big for a minivan. I was going to buy a 4,080 lbs dry weight camper to pull with my X3 that has a tow rating of 5,400 lbs. Glad I didn't. Way too much trailer for a little SUV. It's not the weight, it's the size. Actually, it is the weight.

[Mexglx]

The van can carry 1,374lbs cargo and passenger inside plus 3,600lbs tow capacity so GCWR is 4,974lbs. The van itself weighs 4,980lbs wet with no passengers. The fact the trailer weighed 400lbs more than advertised is the issue with my inability to carry any useful amount of cargo. I can carry a little in the van beyond the passengers but groceries, luggage, bikes were supposed to be in the trailer.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by corn18

That is AFU. I have never seen this before and I have looked at hundreds if not a thousand camper dry weight stickers while shopping. Hope they give your money back.

And don't buy a trailer that big for a minivan. I was going to buy a 4,080 lbs dry weight camper to pull with my X3 that has a tow rating of 5,400 lbs. Glad I didn't. Way too much trailer for a little SUV. It's not the weight, it's the size. Actually, it is the weight.

Not only the weight. Did you happen to notice that the tow vehicle limit on frontal area is 40 square feet. That's 5' x 8'. Wonder how close the camper is to that.

[corn18]

Originally Posted by Mexglx

The van can carry 1,374lbs cargo and passenger inside plus 3,600lbs tow capacity so GCWR is 4,974lbs. The van itself weighs 4,980lbs wet with no passengers. The fact the trailer weighed 400lbs more than advertised is the issue with my inability to carry any useful amount of cargo. I can carry a little in the van beyond the passengers but groceries, luggage, bikes were supposed to be in the trailer.

You're not listening. You have your mind made up. How does it tow with nothing in it in 35 mph crosswinds with semis coming the other way on a 2 lane highway? That would scare the crap out of me.