RV solar Upgrade for a newbie

[kevinB24]

My RV came with the Cherokee Juice Pack solar package with one 50W solar panel. The dealer did however install 2 batteries for me to extend the life a little longer.

I have done much research through forums, youtube, and articles online and am now more confused than every about solar. I am a complete noob when it comes to solar and it confuses me. I am probably making it harder than it has to be. So here is what I want to know.

They say the juice pack system is able to be upgraded am I correct. If so is there a 100w solar panel/or a few 100w panels that I can add in parallel to the current setup that would be plug and play, so that I don't have to change any of the other factory solar components?

For example would these work:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07JXYTFF7...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Also how many panels could I add and keep the factory components that came with the juice pack system?

[corn18]

Lots of threads on here about the Juice Pack.


https://www.google.com/search?q=Cher...iverforums.com

[Chuck_S]

What are you planning to do, do you have enough sunlight to make this sustainable? I've lived places solar power is a bad joke and solar power production is grossly over rated as to real outputs everywhere.

-- Chuck

[kevinB24]

I do have enough sun light. As for what I want to do, I want to get longer life off my 12v fridge, and to be able to use some outlets and stuff while boondocking. To give me more options. Not sure how much solar I would need to power things like microwave, AC, etc...

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by kevinB24

I do have enough sun light. As for what I want to do, I want to get longer life off my 12v fridge, and to be able to use some outlets and stuff while boondocking. To give me more options. Not sure how much solar I would need to power things like microwave, AC, etc...

Rather than how much solar you would need to power those items think in terms of how much battery you will need and then figure how much solar you will need to recharge the battery bank.

A/C and Microwaves are huge power draws, averaging 1.3 Kw to just under 2 Kw needed while running. Not many RV's really have room for that many panels on the roof and sunshine won't always cooperate.

I wouldn't even consider running he A/C unless you are prepared to install a huge battery bank somewhere in the realm of 16 Kwh in capacity (about 13 100 ah LiFePo4 batteries minimum) and then a similar amount of solar power.

More realistic is just planning on running a microwave for the relatively few hours per day.

As an example I have two 100 amp hour LiFePo4 batteries with a 2 Kw Inverter. I built a 240 W portable solar kit that I can aim to the sun for max output (panels also in series feeding an MPPT controller for max efficiency).

I use my microwave an average of 10 minutes per day. I also run my TV/DVD for a couple hours in the evening and furnace for several hours at night during cool weather.

IF I have relatively sunny days I can replace (recharge) the batteries no later than 4 PM. Super clear days they are fully charged by ~2 PM.

If mounting panels on the rooftop I'd estimate that one would need twice the solar "power" (~400 w_ than I have in order to keep up with just the amount of power I use each day (avg). Even more if parking in the shade.

In summary, you need Batteries to run things and the Solar is there primarily to charge. Yes, there will be times that some of the solar output will go into the appliance/lighting that is running but unless you have sunlight like is common in a desert area, and it's present 24/7 solar is not considered to be running anything.

[Rvnewbie21]

I have a 2021 E-PRO19FD. The microwave and AC will only run on shore power. Have you checked to see if yours is the same?

[distracto]

Originally Posted by Rvnewbie21

I have a 2021 E-PRO19FD. The microwave and AC will only run on shore power. Have you checked to see if yours is the same?

This is because they are wired to the AC side of your converter/charger. An inverter - as mentioned above - will handle whatever AC load is connected to it for as long as the battery bank can support said load.

[Tundra 2014]

If you do not already have an inverter you will have to add a 2000 watt one and add wiring to run the the microwave. The Renergy panels are good. We use one off their 100 watt suitcases to recharge our batteries and store it on the bed when not in use. They also now have a 200 watt suitcase that would be much better. Having the portable panels allows me to put it away from the shady area the trailer is parked. I run a cable lock around the braces to keep them safe.

[OrthoMechanical]

Originally Posted by Tundra 2014

If you do not already have an inverter you will have to add a 2000 watt one and add wiring to run the the microwave. The Renergy panels are good. We use one off their 100 watt suitcases to recharge our batteries and store it on the bed when not in use. They also now have a 200 watt suitcase that would be much better. Having the portable panels allows me to put it away from the shady area the trailer is parked. I run a cable lock around the braces to keep them safe.

I did a similar thing. I swapped out the stock inverter(1000Watt) with built in transfer switch to a 2200 watt inverter, and a separate transfer switch. I upgrade my charger to 80 amps to charge two 100Ah Lipos when I bring my generator(charges faster so the generator does not need to be on as long). Rewired the microwave to run on the inverter circuit. For high country camping, I do not bring the generator as I do not need the A/C. There is the 100 watt panel that was stock on my E-Pro BH16 that is a piece of junk and they glued and screwed it to the roof, but I am replacing it with a metal frame panel since that flex panel is hazy and puts out 60 watts at best now. I bought a 360 watt house panel that I put in my truck and use that to charge the batteries with the solar on the side plug and use extra wire so I can put it where I want based on where the best sun is. I rewired this to feed a 600 watt solar charge controller. Currently installing a DC-DC converter so I can charge from my truck while moving from site to site. All of this has worked well as most people only use the microwave for a few minutes a day. Unless you have a huge rig and a big trust fund, trying to run A/C off of batteries where you can run it any time or most of the time is difficult and expensive to achieve. The 360 watt panel was less than 200 bucks. I think this is the best way to go, especially with a smaller rig like mine.

[jimmoore13]

Unless you are swimming in:
A) sunshine
B) solar panels
C) batteries

Forget running 120 volt appliances on your battery bank.
A nominal 1500 watt (input power) microwave will consume 125 amps from your battery bank...through an inverter.
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/ele...alculator.html
Do the math. 1500 is the power number, 12 is the voltage always, because the main power is a 12 volt battery bank.

That's unsustainable without massive batteries.
Read Titan Mike's answer again.

Get a generator and run your 120 volt loads on the generator. Works great, and you'll need one anyway. A 2KW generator can run your micro.

As for solar. If you are serious about solar, this kit will work great. Note the MPPT charge controller to max out your solar performance.

So, you're on the right track, but my guess is that your rig came equipped with a small PWM charge controller, and it's not the best option for managing solar input to your battery bank...especially considering that power hog 12 volt fridge. A typical 12 volt fridge will consume about 35 amp hours per day. Hold that number.

The garden variety group 24 marine battery dealers install have a rated capacity of roughly 70 amp hours or so. YOU GET TO USE HALF OF THAT or you ruin your battery from repeated over discharge. You have two batteries, and I'm assuming that they are group 24s. So you have a USABLE capacity of 70 amp hours (AH). Your fridge eats one whole battery's capacity per day...unless it's recharged.

This is getting ugly, right? It gets worse. You have to run the furnace...let's assume it uses 10 amps, and it runs on a 25% duty cycle for 8 hours per night...e.g. it runs for a total of 2 hours...consuming 20 AH. How about the lights, the pump, the tongue jack? Got a slide? That too. And then there's the RELENTLESS parasitic draw of the propane/co detector, stereo face plate, TV antenna amp, and yada yada yada...about 3.5 AH all by it's lonesome.

You need serious solar to keep up with that draw. 200 watts MIGHT do it in sunny Colorado or Arizona. Elsewhere? No chance. That's why I suggested 400 watts. (I think Titan Mike may have as well.)

As for 120 volt loads thru an inverter? Fuggedaboud it. They'll eat your batteries alive in no time. Run the genny. If you absolutely must have popcorn after quiet hours, make it on the stove.

Now your genny CAN charge the batteries, but it takes a very long time. Three stage chargers spend a lot of their time in absorption or float. You might have to listen to your generator drone on for 6 hours or more to fully recharge your battery bank.

My rig below. All I do is boondock. I don't have a 12 volt fridge, and I likely have more battery than you do...two 6-volt golf cart batteries with a usable capacity of 115 AH. I use a tiny inverter (500 watts) to run a guest's CPAP or to run an electric blanket for about 20 minutes to take the chill off the bed (10 AH).

I've said my piece. Happy camping.

[carguy4471]

I just finished the upgrades on my Cherokee juice pack. Same thing as yours. I’ll add some thoughts for you from my experience:

-Yes, you can add solar. I would recommend a second 50 watt panel in parallel, then a 100 watt panel in series. This will get you 200 watts. If you have more room on your roof you could do 2 more 100 watt panels in series for 400 watts.
-You will need to upgrade your solar charge controller, I recommend a Victron unit. I went with a smart solar from Victron.
-Get a good battery monitor. I recommend a Victron BVM712 or smart shunt. There are cheaper models out there but Victron is amazing.
-IF you would like to be able to run something that’s 120v while boondocking get a 2000 watt renogy inverter and add an outlet to be powered by the inverter. Adding a transfer switch to be able to run the whole travel trailer will add cost and considerable labor.
-It is not required but consider upgrading to lithium batteries. Lead acid should only be drained to 50%, lithium can be drained past 90% and will cut off before any damage is done. So a 100ah lead acid is good for about 50ah. You get almost all 100ah out of lithium. And they weigh less, last longer.
-You will likely not be able to run your 12v fridge forever off solar but you should be able to go a handful of days off of 200 watts of solar. I left my fridge on after the upgrade and it was only at 93% battery after a night of fridge running and easily charged back to full during the day, but it’s only 40-50 degrees here now. This will change a ton in the summer when it’s hot.
-If you have questions reach out, I’m happy to help in any way I can.

[OrthoMechanical]

I agree with you. I live in Arizona, where there is plenty of sunshine, so not having enough solar is almost never an issue. When the microwave is on it draws around 135-148amps, the Keurig coffee maker around 125 amps, but only for a couple of minutes. So, even with multiple cups of coffee, 5-10 minutes of microwave, the furnace running, a 12volt refrigerator running, some 120 volt LED light strings, and water pump, led lights in the camper, etc. about 70 amp-hours are consumed per day. So my batteries last 2-3 days even without a charge, meaning it is possible to do without a generator. But, solar panels only work in sunlight and never put out their "rated" power, even in the best of conditions. I just don't like to listening to a generator when I am boondocking-I go there for the peace and quiet(and I have a very quiet generator). But, that being said, solar is over-rated if you use lots of power and there are not enough sunny days, or too much shade. My plan is to compensate for that rare situation with a DC-DC converter that can be used to charge the batteries from my truck alternator, acting as a generator between sites, or if needed when it is cloudy for several days. Even though I have yet to run out of power(came close only once).

[tomkatb]

100 watt Solar panels mounted on your roof will generate about 25 ah dc per day on the best days. Less than that most of the time.

We, without an inverter, consume about 100 ah dc per day. I have a gas fridge. However my cpap uses about 30 ah dc.

Your electric fridge can use well over 100 ah dc on a bad day. They are an issue for boondockers. It has to be managed.

Your car batteries can provide only about 70 ah dc per day.

What I did was to use 4 gc2 batteries. 230 ah dc available. So, we can go two days without recharging the batteries. I have a Honda 2200 generator to recharge.

We have two 12 volt outlets for a 400 watt plug in inverter if necessary. Never used it. A 2000 watt inverter is only 80% efficient. They consume 1-2 ah dc per hour. It needs to be off when not in use.

First step,is a battery monitor. Mine was $40. It will educate you.

A large and expensive 400 ah dc lithium battery will be my next move. I have a good converter that can do lithium. We often run the generator at dinner. Watch tv and recharge the batteries. The dear wife loves her convection oven as well. Two hours will do,us.

Be realistic in your needs and plan ahead.

[kevinB24]

Originally Posted by carguy4471

I just finished the upgrades on my Cherokee juice pack. Same thing as yours. I’ll add some thoughts for you from my experience:

-Yes, you can add solar. I would recommend a second 50 watt panel in parallel, then a 100 watt panel in series. This will get you 200 watts. If you have more room on your roof you could do 2 more 100 watt panels in series for 400 watts.
-You will need to upgrade your solar charge controller, I recommend a Victron unit. I went with a smart solar from Victron.
-Get a good battery monitor. I recommend a Victron BVM712 or smart shunt. There are cheaper models out there but Victron is amazing.
-IF you would like to be able to run something that’s 120v while boondocking get a 2000 watt renogy inverter and add an outlet to be powered by the inverter. Adding a transfer switch to be able to run the whole travel trailer will add cost and considerable labor.
-It is not required but consider upgrading to lithium batteries. Lead acid should only be drained to 50%, lithium can be drained past 90% and will cut off before any damage is done. So a 100ah lead acid is good for about 50ah. You get almost all 100ah out of lithium. And they weigh less, last longer.
-You will likely not be able to run your 12v fridge forever off solar but you should be able to go a handful of days off of 200 watts of solar. I left my fridge on after the upgrade and it was only at 93% battery after a night of fridge running and easily charged back to full during the day, but it’s only 40-50 degrees here now. This will change a ton in the summer when it’s hot.
-If you have questions reach out, I’m happy to help in any way I can.

Thanks for the info. Basically wanting to run the 12v fridge, some lights, charge some devices for multiple days while boondocking. I have a a few questions. I may PM you about if that is ok.

[corn18]

I run my A/C with a paltry 400aH @ 12V of LiFePO4 and 1200W of solar. Works great. I can run anything in my 50A 5er off of my solar setup. So let's just dispel that myth.

The question is for how long? I use the diysolar energy audit. Everyone who is talking RV solar should do an energy audit as the first step. It helps manage expectations and spits out what you will need for batteries, panels and equipment to do what you are thinking.

https://diysolarforum.com/resources/...read-sheet.12/

If you skip this step, you will either spend too much money or be very disappointed in what you get from your system.

I ran a few scenarios through the audit.

Basic 12V system using LED lights and water pump only:

35Ah LiFePO4 or 63Ah FLA with 63W of solar will get you through 3 days. I think this is why most people feel that a single FLA and a single 100W panel are fine. For most people, they are.

So, let's add a small inverter for running the TV and charging a laptop.

118 Ah LifePo4 or 212Ah FLA with a 300W inverter and 212W of solar will get you through 3 days. Not too bad.

Add 10 minutes of microwave usage to that:

145Ah LifePo4 or 261Ah FLA with a 1700W inverter and 261W of solar for 3 days

Add 30 minutes of A/C

312Ah of LiFePO4 or 562Ah of FLA with a 3000W inverter and 562W of solar for 3 days

As you can see, the microwave requires a big inverter and the a/c puts the system into beast mode.

[kevinB24]

As I hear from everyone i will use my generator to run the microwave and A/C. I want to use the solar for 12v fridge, lights, 12v USB ports, etc... and have the batteries stay strong for a few days. I want to keep this build in expensiven. My thought is 400w of solar panels. They say the 30amp converter that comes from the factory can handle 500+ watts, so hoping I am good there.

Will the ceiling fan run off 12v or do I need shore power?

Also I have a 1000w inverter from another application I plan to add with a dedicated plug into the RV and then use that plug for the TV while boondocking as to alleviate using the generator for the TV. Would that keep the batteries up with 400w of solar. With TV,(only a little bit each day) fridge, led lights, and 12v outlets?

[corn18]

Originally Posted by kevinB24

As I hear from everyone i will use my generator to run the microwave and A/C. I want to use the solar for 12v fridge, lights, 12v USB ports, etc... and have the batteries stay strong for a few days. I want to keep this build in expensiven. My thought is 400w of solar panels. They say the 30amp converter that comes from the factory can handle 500+ watts, so hoping I am good there.

Will the ceiling fan run off 12v or do I need shore power?

Also I have a 1000w inverter from another application I plan to add with a dedicated plug into the RV and then use that plug for the TV while boondocking as to alleviate using the generator for the TV. Would that keep the batteries up with 400w of solar. With TV,(only a little bit each day) fridge, led lights, and 12v outlets?

Take my 2nd example from above:

So, let's add a small inverter for running the TV and charging a laptop.

118 Ah LifePo4 or 212Ah FLA with a 300W inverter and 212W of solar will get you through 3 days. Not too bad.

Now let's add a 12V fridge running 40% of the time (time it is actually cooling):

239Ah LiFePO4 or 430Ah FLA with 300W inverter and 430W of solar will get you through 3 days.

12V refrigerators are power hogs. Kindof like the furnace.

[distracto]

Originally Posted by kevinB24

Will the ceiling fan run off 12v or do I need shore power?

If you're talking about a standard 14" powered vent fan, then yes, that is 12V

For reference, I have about 800w of solar and 340ah of LPO batteries and I can run my 12v fridge and DC load devices (no TV or microwave) indefinitely.

As mentioned elsewhere, adding a Victron Smart Shunt will let you monitor your energy use and remaining battery in real time and make adjustments as needed.