Free 7 Day Trial RV GPS App RV Trip Planner Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Free 7 Day Trial ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-30-2020, 10:09 PM   #121
Just as confused as you
 
Scrapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,057
Certified forktruck operators can be a farce.

Case in point, when a large holding company bought out the family owned multi-location recycling company I worked for they decided that all forklift operators needed to be certified. They picked one of our employees to do the certification. He watched us pick up a pallet, move it to the corner, set it down, pick it back up and move it back to the previous location. He signed a small card and handed it to the person saying he was now a certified forktruck operator. He didn't have person inspect the forklift or sound the horn when operating it. Some long-time employees never hopped on for the so-called test, he just signed the card and handed it over. My B-I-L and I were a couple of the untested long-time employees.
__________________
Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
Everyone gets confused at some time, some are better at hiding it than others.
Scrapper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-30-2020, 11:02 PM   #122
Senior Member
 
Iwannacamp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 7,859
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper View Post
Certified forktruck operators can be a farce.

Case in point, when a large holding company bought out the family owned multi-location recycling company I worked for they decided that all forklift operators needed to be certified. They picked one of our employees to do the certification. He watched us pick up a pallet, move it to the corner, set it down, pick it back up and move it back to the previous location. He signed a small card and handed it to the person saying he was now a certified forktruck operator. He didn't have person inspect the forklift or sound the horn when operating it. Some long-time employees never hopped on for the so-called test, he just signed the card and handed it over. My B-I-L and I were a couple of the untested long-time employees.


You are correct. My certification was a 6 hour class at a local college. 3 hrs class, 2 hours for everyone to use the forks and another hour to test and hand out certificates.
Our instructor was also an OSHA accident inspector who is very familiar with the laws. Safety was the key issue and giving the ability to start safety training.
__________________
2017 Puma 297RLSS
2005 Ram 2500 4X4 diesel SMOKER!!
I love puns, irony and tasteless jokes...
born in Texas.... live in Arkansas
Iwannacamp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 08:30 AM   #123
Senior Member
 
dmctlc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Florida
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brian View Post
Overlander_Trailing,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to participate in this thread, above and beyond all else you are going through.

You’ve received a lot of replies, and a handful of them had some good advice to offer.

My closing suggestion to you is to be profoundly careful, and be sure you receive independent counsel before signing or providing them with any document, and especially before taking possession of your travel trailer.

When you, armed with the information from your insurance company and legal counsel (my emphasis on both) decide to move forward, please do yourself a favor and sleep on it.

Hanging up the phone from your insurance agent and or attorney, and heading down to the dealer within the hour, is not something that will prove beneficial. Review your notes, then sleep on it, then review your notes again, and practice and prepare your interaction. Be sure to take a witness with you. As I mentioned earlier, the ball is truly in your court.

IMHO, The best possible outcome from this entire thing would be for you to walk away with a check rather than your repaired trailer or even another trailer from that dealership.

I know I am joined by many in extending my best wishes. Please know that for you and your family, there are most certainly happy trails ahead!
Great advice, unfortunately this will cause you additional stress and loss of use nonetheless its better than having issues down the road and the dealer will just say I fixed it and you accepted it by driving away with it so its your problem. Listen to "Mr. Brian's" thoughtful advice.
dmctlc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 09:02 AM   #124
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 885
Quote:
Originally Posted by TitanMike View Post
Your insurance policy is a contract that is also enforced by the State Insurance Commissioner's office.

In a case like this where a third party damage They in turn will collect damages and maybe even their costs from the third party's insurance. Considering what it could cost your insurance company if they DON'T protect your interests, rest assured they WILL do what's necessary to protect you. It's all because of that "contract" and what can happen to them if you can show "bad faith".

I had an incident where the person who ran into the back of my truck years ago had an insurance company that was near impossible to deal with. I just filed a claim with my insurance company and it suddenly got handled.

Oh yes, my rates didn't go up. Your insurance company is also obligated to collect from the other party or their insurance any deductible that is usually part of your policy.

+1. Had the same type of deal a few years back.


Also, this camper is likely financed, which means that the lending institution would have a vested interest to ensure that the asset that they have title to is maintained... for the same reasons that you are required to keep insurance on most big ticket items that you finance the purchase of. The lending institution would have a lot of weight in getting the matter resolved if they would decide to get involved.



Were it me in this situation, I would inform my insurance company and my lender, and let them handle it.


Good luck to the OP, hope he is getting this resolved to his satisfaction!!
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 11:05 AM   #125
Senior Member
 
DouglasReid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 3,586
The Best Advice Ive Read on This Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Brian View Post
Overlander_Trailing,

Thank you so very much for taking the time to participate in this thread, above and beyond all else you are going through.

You’ve received a lot of replies, and a handful of them had some good advice to offer.

My closing suggestion to you is to be profoundly careful, and be sure you receive independent counsel before signing or providing them with any document, and especially before taking possession of your travel trailer.

When you, armed with the information from your insurance company and legal counsel (my emphasis on both) decide to move forward, please do yourself a favor and sleep on it.

Hanging up the phone from your insurance agent and or attorney, and heading down to the dealer within the hour, is not something that will prove beneficial. Review your notes, then sleep on it, then review your notes again, and practice and prepare your interaction. Be sure to take a witness with you. As I mentioned earlier, the ball is truly in your court.

IMHO, The best possible outcome from this entire thing would be for you to walk away with a check rather than your repaired trailer or even another trailer from that dealership.

I know I am joined by many in extending my best wishes. Please know that for you and your family, there are most certainly happy trails ahead!
I share the best wishes and hope for a perfect outcome to this issue.

I agree with everything Mr Brian gave above. Just a piece of advice, or two, regarding his suggestions.

Let the dealership know you are consulting with your attorney and will be consulting with him/her prior to accepting any offer made regarding settlement of this issue.

In addition to taking notes if you have a small recorder, record, and let them know you are recording, the conversation regarding the settlement. This will let them know they cannot in the future misrepresent the facts.

Tell them you are not being ugly you just want to insure you receive fair treatment.
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
DouglasReid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 11:13 AM   #126
Site Team
 
Flybob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 12,779
Don't resolve this over the phone. Do it in writing and save the exchange.
__________________

2015 Freedom Express 248RBS
TV 2015 Silverado HD2500 Duramax
TST Tire Monitors
Honda 2000I + Companion
2 100W solar panels
Flybob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 11:16 AM   #127
Senior Member
 
DouglasReid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 3,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flybob View Post
Don't resolve this over the phone. Do it in writing and save the exchange.
Absolutely, over a table with the recorder in plain view after advising the dealership you are recording the conversation.
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
DouglasReid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 12:13 PM   #128
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 12,092
Quote:
Originally Posted by BriaBeck View Post
+1. Had the same type of deal a few years back.


Also, this camper is likely financed, which means that the lending institution would have a vested interest to ensure that the asset that they have title to is maintained... for the same reasons that you are required to keep insurance on most big ticket items that you finance the purchase of. The lending institution would have a lot of weight in getting the matter resolved if they would decide to get involved.



Were it me in this situation, I would inform my insurance company and my lender, and let them handle it.


Good luck to the OP, hope he is getting this resolved to his satisfaction!!
I'm not sure the lender will get involved. Their contract is with the purchase and it's their responsibility to insure and maintain.
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will."

"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"

2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2004 Nissan Titan
TitanMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 12:44 PM   #129
Senior Member
 
BriaBeck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: Southern Illissouri
Posts: 885
That very well could be... but as long as the lender holds the title, technically they own it, at least in layman's terms. That is the reason why when you finance something, like a new tow vehicle... that you are required to keep an minimum amount of insurance coverage on it, to protect the lender against loss. At least that has been the case with every vehicle I have purchased.



DW used to do large commercial loans... I'll have to ask her what she thinks about this situation.
__________________
Brian & Becky

2018 Avenger ATI 27RBS
Champion 3500
Weber Q2000, Blackstone 22", and a whole herd of flamingoes
BriaBeck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 02:44 PM   #130
PhD, Common Sense
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Fairborn, OH
Posts: 1,384
Someone suggested recording your conversation. Make sure you know the laws of your State regarding making such recordings. Specifically, make sure you know whether your State is a one-party or two-party consent State.

I have an app called Just Press Record on my watch, my phone, and my iPad.
eye95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 08:32 PM   #131
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 263
I think the OP also made a comment there was a video. If so, I would send a certified letter to the dealer to preserve all video evidence. You can Google samples of a "Request To Preserve Evidence". It is doubtful the dealer will actually follow through with doing it, but if it did go to arbitration, someone may be interested in why it was not preserved as requested.

NOTE: This is not required to be written by a lawyer. I have done it twice. Once for a local Police Department video and once for the local borough office video. Both instance worked in my favor and and the issue was resolved without any litegation.

If your lucky enough, it may be motivation for the dealer to step up and do the right thing. Sometimes accidents do happen, but often they happen because of neglect. This is an obvious example of neglect of the forklift driver and the dealership is responsible for the drivers actions.

Best of luck to you.
tkarper14 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 09:15 PM   #132
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iwannacamp View Post
You are correct. My certification was a 6 hour class at a local college. 3 hrs class, 2 hours for everyone to use the forks and another hour to test and hand out certificates.
Our instructor was also an OSHA accident inspector who is very familiar with the laws. Safety was the key issue and giving the ability to start safety training.
Not to hyjack the thread but that is correct. Each company does powered industrial truck (forklift) training it a little differently. As long as the basics are covered, and a operatation test, .... that is all that is required. No license or individual certificate is required. Certification means there is a piece of paper saying who was trained (can be as a group), who trained them, and the date the traing was performed be maintained on file. I have been an OSHA inpector / accident investigator for over 27 years and have done OSHA type inspections / accident investigations for over 40 years.

__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2020, 09:57 PM   #133
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 6,944
If OSHA was investigating an employee injury, yes training would be looked at.

But just as importantly would be how and what the ball attachment to the forklift was. If it was like most RV dealers the the attachment and how the forklift was being used was probably not approved by the forklift manufacturer. If the forklift manufacturer was out of business then an engineer's approval would be required. Probably not going to happen.

Any alteration of a forklift has to be "approved". I've seen a hole drill through a fork for a ball to mount, to an attachment to a fork or between the forks. Most of the time the hitch is not latched. Often to move a fifth wheel a piece of pipe is attached to a bracket between the forks.

But this is not an OSHA investigation. And yes there are very few true accidents most are unsafe acts of some sort........

__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 01:17 AM   #134
Senior Member
 
dbledan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 2,364
Good luck. I am upset for you.

I am not sure how they can legally work on something without an estimate you did not approve even if they do it for free, but if they are doing it due to their negligence it does not appear above board to me...not sure how your local laws protect you so a lawyer is not a bad deal, not necessarily to sue but to preserve your rights.

Whatever you get out of them get it in writing! Recording is not bad but writing in their words is best.

Good move on the third party inspector. I would continue to push the dealer towards full repairs in an effort for him to claim it on his insurance so they total it. The only way I see that happening is by having someone else fix what else is still wrong and not them.

dbledan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 07:00 AM   #135
PhD, Common Sense
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Fairborn, OH
Posts: 1,384
Recordings can be amazingly good proof.

I watched a case where a plaintiff was alleging the existence of a contract between him and the defendant. The defense was basically, “Oh, yeah? Where’s the signed contract?” She stated flat-out that she never signed a contract.

The plaintiff did not have the original contract. The judge appeared set to rule in the defendant’s favor, when the plaintiff said, “Wait, I have a video.”

The judge seemed skeptical, because a photo or a video of a printed contract would not be as good as evidence as the actual original contract. She watched the video.

The video showed the defendant holding the contract, reading it out loud, signing it, and turning to the defendant, who signed it on the video!

Judgment: Plaintiff.

I know that the OP’s situation is far different from the above case, but the dealer’s knowledge of the existence of a recording will do two things:

1. It will make him very careful about what he says on the recording.

2. It will keep him from lying about what he said. Recordings may not be the best evidence of the truth of the matter, but they are great for impeaching a witness when he or she lies.
eye95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 07:14 AM   #136
Senior Member
 
DouglasReid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Maurice, LA
Posts: 3,586
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
Someone suggested recording your conversation. Make sure you know the laws of your State regarding making such recordings. Specifically, make sure you know whether your State is a one-party or two-party consent State.

I have an app called Just Press Record on my watch, my phone, and my iPad.
I suggested the recording. I NEVER suggested doing it surreptitiously.

Quite the reverse, Insure the dealer KNOWS you are recording them. They will realize you cannot be buffaloed or bullied into a sub par solution.

Then will be more likely to bend over backwards to stay out of an expensive court solution.

I have used the phrase "If we have to go to court my attorney will make money, your attorney will make money, and I will get what I want. You will pay all those bills. It will be cheaper for you to give it to me without the lawyers."

After all, the goal here is a fair settlement, isn't it? These are just tools to obtain what is just
__________________
2012 Wildcat Sterling 32RL, Gladiator Qr35 ST235/85R16 Load rating G, TST 507 TPMS w/ Flow-thru Sensors & Repeater, Reese Sidewinder 16K Pin Box, PI EMS HW50C
2008 Chevy Silverado 2500HD CCSB LTZ Diesel, Fumoto Oil Drain Valve, Turbo Brake activated, 39 gal Aux Tank W/ Fuel Pump transfer, Air Lift Loadlifter 5000 air bags.
DouglasReid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 08:01 AM   #137
PhD, Common Sense
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Fairborn, OH
Posts: 1,384
I never thought you meant surreptitiously.

The law requires consent, not just knowledge. Knowledge can indicate consent, but not necessarily.

I wouldn’t just say that I am recording. I would say (on the recording), “I am recording this conversation. OK?”

If it is a one-party State, only your conscience will tell you what you need to do.

I am just alerting people about recording laws. In some States, it is a crime to record others without their consent.
eye95 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2020, 04:19 PM   #138
Senior Member
 
nomad297's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 6,308
Quote:
Originally Posted by eye95 View Post
Recordings can be amazingly good proof.

I watched a case where a plaintiff was alleging the existence of a contract between him and the defendant. The defense was basically, “Oh, yeah? Where’s the signed contract?” She stated flat-out that she never signed a contract.

The plaintiff did not have the original contract. The judge appeared set to rule in the defendant’s favor, when the plaintiff said, “Wait, I have a video.”

The judge seemed skeptical, because a photo or a video of a printed contract would not be as good as evidence as the actual original contract. She watched the video.

The video showed the defendant holding the contract, reading it out loud, signing it, and turning to the defendant, who signed it on the video!

Judgment: Plaintiff.

I know that the OP’s situation is far different from the above case, but the dealer’s knowledge of the existence of a recording will do two things:

1. It will make him very careful about what he says on the recording.

2. It will keep him from lying about what he said. Recordings may not be the best evidence of the truth of the matter, but they are great for impeaching a witness when he or she lies.
Ha! You watch Judge Judy!

Bruce
__________________
2016 Rockwood Windjammer 3029W Diamond
2015 Chevy 3500HD LTZ 6.0 Crew Cab 4x4 Long Bed 4.10:1 SRW
nomad297 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 07:58 PM   #139
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2020
Posts: 7
Trailer Dropped - Need Advice

Hi everyone. I want to first say a huge thank you to everyone who commented and provided advice. This is my husband and my first trailer and the first month of ownership has definitely been interesting. After weeks of back and forth with the dealer, speaking with our insurance, an attorney, RV inspector, and appraiser we finally have our trailer back.

We had our trailer inspected by a certified NRVIA inspector (dealer refused to pay for) and had the necessary repairs done. The dealer provided us documentation of the repairs and incident, 12-months warranty on the repairs, 2-year warranty in addition to the 5-year warranty we already purchased, upgraded tongue jack, and solar panel. The dealer also fired the person who wrecked our trailer. The dealer refused to replace the trailer or provide us money back for depreciation.

In the end, the resolution is not what we truly wanted (or think is right) but we were tired of fighting and did not want to spend thousands on an attorney and go through litigation. We just wanted to go camping.

I truly hope no one ever has to go through this experience. Again, we are incredibly grateful for this FR community.

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_3316.jpg
Views:	78
Size:	401.9 KB
ID:	238543
Overlander_Trailing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2020, 08:07 PM   #140
Senior Member
 
Delco Bobby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 2,687
Well hopefully this baloney will be all behind you and you will suffer no more grief and disrespect from that unnamed dealer. I expect he will have other victims.

Good luck and safe travels.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Overlander_Trailing View Post
Hi everyone. I want to first say a huge thank you to everyone who commented and provided advice. This is my husband and my first trailer and the first month of ownership has definitely been interesting. After weeks of back and forth with the dealer, speaking with our insurance, an attorney, RV inspector, and appraiser we finally have our trailer back.

We had our trailer inspected by a certified NRVIA inspector (dealer refused to pay for) and had the necessary repairs done. The dealer provided us documentation of the repairs and incident, 12-months warranty on the repairs, 2-year warranty in addition to the 5-year warranty we already purchased, upgraded tongue jack, and solar panel. The dealer also fired the person who wrecked our trailer. The dealer refused to replace the trailer or provide us money back for depreciation.

In the end, the resolution is not what we truly wanted (or think is right) but we were tired of fighting and did not want to spend thousands on an attorney and go through litigation. We just wanted to go camping.

I truly hope no one ever has to go through this experience. Again, we are incredibly grateful for this FR community.

Attachment 238543
__________________
2017 Dynamax REV 24RB
2018 Ford F-150

Formerly a 2013 Sunseeker 2250 SLEC.
Delco Bobby is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
trailer

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 PM.