Water tank heaters and insulation

[FortyFour44]

Has anyone added water tank heaters and insulation on their Cherokee? I have a Wolf Pup, and as you know the underbelly is exposed. If so, can you share your approach?

Some context...I’m not necessarily going to go winter camping. However, I do plan on some winter road trips to warmer weather (From Denver to AZ for example). Likely to start in freezing temps in winterized condition and then de-winterize ASAP. Re-winterize again upon eventual return. The tank heaters and insulation would provide a buffer.

I was looking at these, with added toggles to better manage energy consumption. Would these be pointless without addressing the pipes?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZJNR69R...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[youroo]

The pads you have listed are 110V,useless going down the road! Road trip would require 12V pads on all tanks,pipes,and valves! Plus enclosed and insulated area! Think about "DRY Travel and use" in COLD times! Youroo!!

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by youroo

The pads you have listed are 110V,useless going down the road! Road trip would require 12V pads on all tanks,pipes,and valves! Plus enclosed and insulated area! Think about "DRY Travel and use" in COLD times! Youroo!!

Nice catch. Thank you! I located the 12v model.

[FortyFour44]

Can anyone share a link to whatever materials they used for this type of project?

Insulation tape?
Insulation pads?
Tank heaters and/or pipe heaters?

One thing I noticed is that the 12v tank heaters have built in thermostats, while the corresponding elbow heaters do not. Switches or not, having these function differently seems to add to the challenge.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by FortyFour44

Can anyone share a link to whatever materials they used for this type of project?

Insulation tape?
Insulation pads?
Tank heaters and/or pipe heaters?

One thing I noticed is that the 12v tank heaters have built in thermostats, while the corresponding elbow heaters do not. Switches or not, having these function differently seems to add to the challenge.

Mine were installed from the factory so I can't comment on installation.

I don't see any issues with connecting them together on a switch, that's how mine are. (fresh, black and two grey and two elbow/valve)

The tank heaters are on a thermostat and draw the most amps.
The elbow heaters are not on a thermostat but draw little amps.

Are you planning to use them boondocking where battery resources may be limited?

[Richy R]

Can you link us the 12 volters please??

Originally Posted by FortyFour44

Nice catch. Thank you! I located the 12v model.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by youroo

The pads you have listed are 110V,useless going down the road! Road trip would require 12V pads on all tanks,pipes,and valves! Plus enclosed and insulated area! Think about "DRY Travel and use" in COLD times! Youroo!!

Just use these instead with the same 3 switch panel

https://www.amazon.com/Facon-Holding...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Using separate switches for each tank is a great way to go. If a tank is empty no point in powering it up. Example, if water tank has water in it, turn it's switch on. If you've just dumped tanks leave their switches off until the tank starts to accumulate water.

Also consider adding "Elbow/Valve Heaters" where pipe leaves tank and on the valve if it's farther away from the tank. This company has pads of various sizes. Pads are thermostatically controlled, elbow/valve heaters are not but are only 7-12 Watts.

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by Richy R

Can you link us the 12 volters please??

Sure thing! This is the gear I’m considering as far as the tank heaters go.


Facon 2Packs 12" x 18" RV Holding Tank Heater Pad, 12Volts DC, Use with Up to 50 Gallons Fresh Water/Grey Water/Black Water Tank, Holding Tank Heating Pad with Automatic Thermostat Control https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MT9EUG9/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_GZ0TFbC04YKXC?_encoding=UT F8&psc=1


Facon 3" x 8" RV Elbow Pipe Heater Pad, Work for 1-1/2" Elbow Pipe on RV, Camper, Travel Trailer and Motorhome, 12V DC(Pack of 3) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUC7XI5/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_f00TFbN8WJ9VP?_encoding=UT F8&psc=1


RV Toggle Switch | RV Tank System Control Panel Switch | Gang Kit System | Tank Heating Pad Toggle Switch | RV Tank Heater Panel (3 Toggles) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083G1BHBZ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_M00TFbC9RPKF6?_encoding=UT F8&psc=1

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Mine were installed from the factory so I can't comment on installation.

I don't see any issues with connecting them together on a switch, that's how mine are. (fresh, black and two grey and two elbow/valve)

The tank heaters are on a thermostat and draw the most amps.
The elbow heaters are not on a thermostat but draw little amps.

Are you planning to use them boondocking where battery resources may be limited?

Thanks for sharing this context. I think I’ll go this route and get the switches.

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Just use these instead with the same 3 switch panel

https://www.amazon.com/Facon-Holding...xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==

Using separate switches for each tank is a great way to go. If a tank is empty no point in powering it up. Example, if water tank has water in it, turn it's switch on. If you've just dumped tanks leave their switches off until the tank starts to accumulate water.

Also consider adding "Elbow/Valve Heaters" where pipe leaves tank and on the valve if it's farther away from the tank. This company has pads of various sizes. Pads are thermostatically controlled, elbow/valve heaters are not but are only 7-12 Watts.

Thank you. I just saw this. I absolutely appreciate your feedback and this is exactly the route I’m going.

Do in need additional insulation, and is there a recommendation on brand (taping pipes ext)?

I’m not planning to go winter camping but will be taking some winter road trips through CO. I’d be moving as fast as possible to lower altitudes but might need to stay a night in freezing temps here and there. We have young kids so not using the toilet would be impossible.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by FortyFour44

Thank you. I just saw this. I absolutely appreciate your feedback and this is exactly the route I’m going.

Do in need additional insulation, and is there a recommendation on brand (taping pipes ext)?

I’m not planning to go winter camping but will be taking some winter road trips through CO. I’d be moving as fast as possible to lower altitudes but might need to stay a night in freezing temps here and there. We have young kids so not using the toilet would be impossible.

I can only speak for my unit but all pipes run in heated areas with the exception of a short run from the fresh water tank to the water pump. I've found that in freezing temps (low to mid 20's) the fresh water tank heats to ~60 degrees and there is enough heat to keep this short run from freezing. None of the other lines have frozen yet. I would consider stuffing the outside shower "compartment" with some fiberglass pipe wrap that is sold in Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Most of my outside shower apparatus is actually inside the trailer but insulating behind the thin plastic door can only help.

If you can access the water line from the FW tank to pump a length of "heat tape/cable" could be added. I'd look for some 12 volt heat cable and do a spiral wrap around the pipe and avoid any tape to hold it in place. Adhesives on tape can have an adverse effect on many "polymers" used to make the pipe. If you do add a heat cable to the fresh water line from tank put it on a switch too. Self regulating heat cable is my preference as it doesn't require any special attention other than wrapping it on the pipe and properly terminating each end. Unlike the prepared lengths that one can buy just about everywhere, they can't be shortened and if the inline thermostat isn't properly located the line can be turned on when not necessary.

Here's some examples of what I'm describing

https://www.ebay.com/i/264578839906?chn=ps&var=564344150314&norover=1&mke vt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=564344150314_264578839906&targeti d=935694487826&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=21137 &campaignid=10459841961&mkgroupid=104612009980&rls atarget=aud-622027676388la-935694487826&abcId=2146002&merchantid=113784304&gc lid=EAIaIQobChMIzPiEsNGR7QIVBWyGCh3kGAYbEAQYBCABEg JZofD_BwE

You will need enough cable to spiral wrap the line AND a termination kit for some types. One part for the power supply end and the other for the "far end". Some just need sealing (heat shrink) on he "far end" and adding power to the other.

BTW, always use fuses inline to protect the wires feeding the heaters and heat tape.

[NMWildcat]

Honestly, I believe you are over thinking this. I recognize it, as I tend to do the same thing.
If you are moving during the day, it would take some gawd awful low temps to freeze liquid in your tanks or water heater. You can't insulate every pipe as I'm assuming you can't reach most of them. And most should be fine as long as you are using the RV.
You don't say what RV you have, but when occupied and running the onboard heater, that should be more than enough to keep everything above freezing assuming you have an enclosed bottom. I kept the heater on low during the night and opened up the access panels/cabinets to let heat in toward the pex lines.
I traveled all over the cold country with an open bottom fifth wheel and never had problems with freezing lines. I just never tried to dump first thing in the morning as the dump valves would be frozen shut, but my shower always worked from the fresh tank.
I have friends that run their fifth wheel onboard heater as they go down the road in freezing temps, but I've never been brave enough to do it.
Good luck and have a great trip!

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I can only speak for my unit but all pipes run in heated areas with the exception of a short run from the fresh water tank to the water pump. I've found that in freezing temps (low to mid 20's) the fresh water tank heats to ~60 degrees and there is enough heat to keep this short run from freezing. None of the other lines have frozen yet. I would consider stuffing the outside shower "compartment" with some fiberglass pipe wrap that is sold in Lowe's, Home Depot, etc. Most of my outside shower apparatus is actually inside the trailer but insulating behind the thin plastic door can only help.

If you can access the water line from the FW tank to pump a length of "heat tape/cable" could be added. I'd look for some 12 volt heat cable and do a spiral wrap around the pipe and avoid any tape to hold it in place. Adhesives on tape can have an adverse effect on many "polymers" used to make the pipe. If you do add a heat cable to the fresh water line from tank put it on a switch too. Self regulating heat cable is my preference as it doesn't require any special attention other than wrapping it on the pipe and properly terminating each end. Unlike the prepared lengths that one can buy just about everywhere, they can't be shortened and if the inline thermostat isn't properly located the line can be turned on when not necessary.

Here's some examples of what I'm describing

https://www.ebay.com/i/264578839906?chn=ps&var=564344150314&norover=1&mke vt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&itemid=564344150314_264578839906&targeti d=935694487826&device=c&mktype=pla&googleloc=21137 &campaignid=10459841961&mkgroupid=104612009980&rls atarget=aud-622027676388la-935694487826&abcId=2146002&merchantid=113784304&gc lid=EAIaIQobChMIzPiEsNGR7QIVBWyGCh3kGAYbEAQYBCABEg JZofD_BwE

You will need enough cable to spiral wrap the line AND a termination kit for some types. One part for the power supply end and the other for the "far end". Some just need sealing (heat shrink) on he "far end" and adding power to the other.

BTW, always use fuses inline to protect the wires feeding the heaters and heat tape.

I appreciate the context. I will look into these parts as well. Thank you.

[FortyFour44]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Honestly, I believe you are over thinking this. I recognize it, as I tend to do the same thing.
If you are moving during the day, it would take some gawd awful low temps to freeze liquid in your tanks or water heater. You can't insulate every pipe as I'm assuming you can't reach most of them. And most should be fine as long as you are using the RV.
You don't say what RV you have, but when occupied and running the onboard heater, that should be more than enough to keep everything above freezing assuming you have an enclosed bottom. I kept the heater on low during the night and opened up the access panels/cabinets to let heat in toward the pex lines.
I traveled all over the cold country with an open bottom fifth wheel and never had problems with freezing lines. I just never tried to dump first thing in the morning as the dump valves would be frozen shut, but my shower always worked from the fresh tank.
I have friends that run their fifth wheel onboard heater as they go down the road in freezing temps, but I've never been brave enough to do it.
Good luck and have a great trip!

I’m happy to hear you say that and feel like I’ll be overthinking everything until I get the hang of things. Thanks for the advice!

[FortyFour44]

I finished installing the tank heaters and I believe everything is functioning. I installed 3 tank heaters (fresh, black, gray) and 3 pipe elbow heaters (1 black, 2 gray). I also installed a switch so I do not have to rely on the internal thermostats.

These videos walked me through it:

https://youtu.be/TY2UPzz9x5Q
https://youtu.be/Wn4aAdAxZDI

Parts:

Facon 12" x 18" RV Holding Tank... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B077VLB1KK...p_mob_ap_share

Facon 3" x 8" RV Elbow Pipe... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MUC7XI5...p_mob_ap_share

Facon 12Volts Switch Box Panel,... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B085HM2P88...p_mob_ap_share