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Old 09-23-2020, 10:04 AM   #1
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2021 Isata 5 30FW with 2 Lithium batteries and residential fridge

We just got our Isata 5 30FW and on our maiden voyage we learned that boondocking might have to wait till we figure out how many lithium batteries we need to run a residential refrigerator.
At 7pm with 100% battery capacity, at 6 am next morning we had 21% battery capacity left. The only appliance running was the refrigerator.

Is that normal or is there another drain on the battery we need to find?
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:19 AM   #2
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What is the capacity of your batteries you have now?
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Old 09-23-2020, 10:23 AM   #3
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200 AMPH factory installed
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:21 AM   #4
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We just got our Isata 5 30FW and on our maiden voyage we learned that boondocking might have to wait till we figure out how many lithium batteries we need to run a residential refrigerator.
At 7pm with 100% battery capacity, at 6 am next morning we had 21% battery capacity left. The only appliance running was the refrigerator.

Is that normal or is there another drain on the battery we need to find?
#1, the fridge is a power hog, no getting around that fact. I VERY recently converted to lithium batteries, but before that we had 3x group 31 AGM batteries and basically full timed in our Isata 5 and were at campgrounds with no hook ups around 50% of the time. Even with 3 batteries that were bigger than the standard batteries installed at the factory, we would BARELY make it through the night with the fridge turned on…..and if it was chilly outside and the furnace was on, there was no way we’d make it. My usually solution was to turn off the breaker for the fridge when I went to bed and turn it back on when I woke up in the morning. Never had a problem with anything in the fridge or freezer with that strategy.

#2, it’s not _just_ the fridge that is on. There are all kinds of other things in there that are drawing small amounts of power and they simply add up. USB outlets, the inverter itself, clock on the microwave, etc etc….
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:35 AM   #5
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Wow I wish I would have known that before. I was concerned going with the residential refrigerator but we like the size. I guess adding 2 more Lithium batteries to get to 400AMPH might do the trick or go the Fuse route.

Thank you for the great reply.
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:58 AM   #6
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Wow I wish I would have known that before. I was concerned going with the residential refrigerator but we like the size. I guess adding 2 more Lithium batteries to get to 400AMPH might do the trick or go the Fuse route.

Thank you for the great reply.
Sorry, I guess I missed that you had 2x lithiums from the factory. I guess I thought you just had the 2x regular factory AGMs and were wondering how many lithiums you should go to.

With that said, 200a/hr is still 200a/hr, so it’s hard to circumvent that. The bigger upside to lithium is that you CAN drag them down to a lower voltage without hurting them. So, I guess I would ask what was the starting voltage when you went to bed and what was the voltage when you woke up in the morning. I know you said you started at 100% and woke up to 21%, BUT I’m a tad curious as to what that looked like in terms of voltage.

I ask because when I had the AGMs, we’d be around 13.1-13.2v at bedtime and if I left the fridge on, we’d be around 12.3v and I NEVER wanted to dip below 12.2v. Now, with the lithiums in there, I can float charge them around 13.7-13.8v and still be just fine _if_ they reach 12.2v. So, my 0-100% scale is quite a bit different from AGM to lithium.

Also curious what you are using to determine 100% and 21%....as in, what monitor do you have?
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:15 PM   #7
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Sorry, I guess I missed that you had 2x lithiums from the factory. I guess I thought you just had the 2x regular factory AGMs and were wondering how many lithiums you should go to.

With that said, 200a/hr is still 200a/hr, so it’s hard to circumvent that. The bigger upside to lithium is that you CAN drag them down to a lower voltage without hurting them. So, I guess I would ask what was the starting voltage when you went to bed and what was the voltage when you woke up in the morning. I know you said you started at 100% and woke up to 21%, BUT I’m a tad curious as to what that looked like in terms of voltage.

I ask because when I had the AGMs, we’d be around 13.1-13.2v at bedtime and if I left the fridge on, we’d be around 12.3v and I NEVER wanted to dip below 12.2v. Now, with the lithium's in there, I can float charge them around 13.7-13.8v and still be just fine _if_ they reach 12.2v. So, my 0-100% scale is quite a bit different from AGM to lithium.

Also curious what you are using to determine 100% and 21%....as in, what monitor do you have?
Still Learning: Starting voltage at 7pm was 13.69 and at 6am it was at 13.04. The current draw indicates -9.77 amp.
The Victron power monitor showed State of charge at 21% at 6am.

Not sure I completely understand everything. Does it seem reasonable for the refrigerator to draw 9 amps and uses about 150 AMPH overnight?
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:16 PM   #8
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Wow I wish I would have known that before. I was concerned going with the residential refrigerator but we like the size. I guess adding 2 more Lithium batteries to get to 400AMPH might do the trick or go the Fuse route.

Thank you for the great reply.
Also, before you can judge that, you have to look at...

How did you use the fridge? Did you load up the night before, plugged in to cool it down? Did you just load up cold and warm food and head out?
The compressor will run A LOT to get things initially cooled down. So there may have been a big draw that first night.

Now that things are cooled down, you might get a better result night #2. If need be, you can unplug some TV's, the microwave...to eliminate any parasitic draw.

And as mentioned...21% is not terrible for lithium's. You would rather not run them down to 10%...but solar should start back up by 7-ish depending on location.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:18 PM   #9
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Still Learning: Starting voltage at 7pm was 13.69 and at 6am it was at 13.04. The current draw indicates -9.77 amp.
The Victron power monitor showed State of charge at 21% at 6am.

Not sure I completely understand everything. Does it seem reasonable for the refrigerator to draw 9 amps and uses about 150 AMPH overnight?
You can also start unplugging some things to see what that draw might be and how it affects everything. The inverter itself creates a draw and inefficiency as it inverts to 110V.

Unplug the refer and see what the new draw is. Though it will draw the most when the compressor is running.

So no fans running no furnace?

I did read somewhere that a residential fridge will draw 100-150 amp hours per night on an inverter.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:21 PM   #10
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The fridge has been running for 5 days on shore power before the last day with no shore power. I’ve been monitoring the amp draw which had been around 9 amp and spiking to 14 when the compressor is running. Is that about right?
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:24 PM   #11
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The fridge has been running for 5 days on shore power before the last day with no shore power. I’ve been monitoring the amp draw which had been around 9 amp and spiking to 14 when the compressor is running. Is that about right?
Sounds like it could be.
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Old 09-23-2020, 02:29 PM   #12
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You can also start unplugging some things to see what that draw might be and how it affects everything. The inverter itself creates a draw and inefficiency as it inverts to 110V.

Unplug the refer and see what the new draw is. Though it will draw the most when the compressor is running.

So no fans running no furnace?

I did read somewhere that a residential fridge will draw 100-150 amp hours per night on an inverter.
That night the refrigerator did use about 150AMPH in a 12 hour time frame with no fans or furnace running.

My main concern is that the State of Charge at 6am was down to 21% with 3m of power remaining per the Victron battery monitor. I want to understand what would have happened at 7am to make sure we don't damage anything.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:46 PM   #13
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That night the refrigerator did use about 150AMPH in a 12 hour time frame with no fans or furnace running.

My main concern is that the State of Charge at 6am was down to 21% with 3m of power remaining per the Victron battery monitor. I want to understand what would have happened at 7am to make sure we don't damage anything.
It’s hard to calculate…..well, it is for me…..what the fridge will draw in terms of Amp/Hours. First problem is that it’s not straight 12v to 120v conversion because it’s going through an inverter, so there are going to be some losses there. They might be minimal, but they are there. Second problem is that what your fridge draws over a given time span will differ. How much food do you have in the fridge on one day compared to another day will influence how often it has to run the compressor to cool it down.

One thing you have to get used to with the Victron and it’s “Power Remaining” calculation is that it’s dynamic. It’s always looking at the current loads and calculating the power remaining time based on what it knows right when you are checking it. So, you could be in bed at 7:00am, with the fridge compressor not running, no lights on and nothing else turned on and if you checked the “Power Remaining” in those conditions, it could be “6 hours” (for example) of power remaining. However, if you jumped out of bed, turn some lights on and by random chance the fridge compressor turns on and THEN you check the “Power Remaining”, it could instantly drop to “6 minutes” (again, for example).

At 13.04v, personally, I’d say you were doing just fine.
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Old 09-23-2020, 04:50 PM   #14
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Thank you for the great feedback
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:26 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msusslin View Post
Still Learning: Starting voltage at 7pm was 13.69 and at 6am it was at 13.04. The current draw indicates -9.77 amp.
The Victron power monitor showed State of charge at 21% at 6am.

Not sure I completely understand everything. Does it seem reasonable for the refrigerator to draw 9 amps and uses about 150 AMPH overnight?
I'm about confused....going from 13.69v to 13.04v apparently drained the 2 lithium batteries by 79%???
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Old 09-23-2020, 11:29 PM   #16
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I'm about confused....going from 13.69v to 13.04v apparently drained the 2 lithium batteries by 79%???
That’s what the Victron battery monitor indicated.
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:53 AM   #17
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We have 4 ReLion lithium batteries with the residential fridge and rarely see the batteries below 13.0v - even with watching some TV, using the lights and using/charging laptops and devices (and whatever parasitic draws) at night. We have the Victron battery monitor and 500w solar and on sunny days we usually fully recharge the batteries.

The one time we ran the batteries down to around to 12.6v was when we started with a warm fridge.

13.04 is not a 21% SOC. You can take these batteries down all the way 11.0v though ReLion does not recommend that. They recommend no lower than 11.5v.

The battery discharge accelerates around 12.5ish but they should hold up pretty well and for quit some time until that point.

I think you might not have your Victron app set-up correctly to monitor these batteries. You can call ReLion about setting it up for their 200Ah configuration. Their support has been terrific.

I have attached the Magnum configuration and battery spec sheets for the RB100-LT batteries. The configuration parameters were provided directly from ReLion and the spec sheet should be helpful in understanding the performance characteristics, with graphs at the bottom of the sheet. Hope that helps.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Relion-Data-Sheet-RB100-LT-noRU.pdf (615.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: pdf Magnum-ME-RC-for Relion-Lithium.pdf (128.6 KB, 16 views)
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Old 09-24-2020, 05:59 AM   #18
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Additional note: with it getting cooler at night we are using a Mr. Heater Little Buddy propane heater - not the heat in the RV. We find both the gas and electric too loud so we are using this portable device until it can't keep up with the temperatures. I don't how much the gas furnace will add to power consumption overnight - but I guess we will find out in the coming weeks as the temperatures drop.
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Old 09-24-2020, 07:53 AM   #19
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Do the research. Get the model number from the inverter.

An inverter being turned on uses substantial power per day. Depending on models 1 or 2 amps per hour. That is 24 to 48 per day. So it needs to be off. Typically there is a switch somewhere handy. Keeping gallons of drinking water in the full fridge would likely allow you to turn the inverter off at bedtime. We carry three in our gas electric fridge. 12 cu. ft. Fridge.

When an inverter converts dc to ac, there is a loss of 10 to 20%.

A residential fridge uses 0 to 12 amps per hour. Plus 10-20%. Depends on the weather. Check specs.

Plus other loads.

I would guess that your situation is pretty much as expected. Likely on a good day you will use 150. On a bad day more than 200.

200 more amps of batteries gets you 2 days. 600 watts of solar or about 150 amps of input would make the situation better. But, likely not enough in the Midwest. Too much rain and trees.

One would assume the dealer or manufacturer put the proper Lithium compatible converter in the rv. I no longer assume they would have after what I have observed. I would get that model number as well.

Fortunately motor homes have large generators and 4-6 hours of running would take care of the batteries.
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Old 09-24-2020, 09:33 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msusslin View Post
We just got our Isata 5 30FW and on our maiden voyage we learned that boondocking might have to wait till we figure out how many lithium batteries we need to run a residential refrigerator.
At 7pm with 100% battery capacity, at 6 am next morning we had 21% battery capacity left. The only appliance running was the refrigerator.

Is that normal or is there another drain on the battery we need to find?
I am curious, did you special order just 2 Lithium batteries from the factory in place of the 2 AGMs or did you add them yourself?

Did any solar get installed, if so, how many watts??
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