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Old 01-17-2020, 01:16 AM   #1
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BIRD to BIM or BIM-li

I have searched throughout the forum but unable to find answers. Forgive me if I am just repeating.

Here is the story.

Having some issue with the chassis batteries being charged while plugged in during long term storage.
1. Plugged into 50amp
2. Xantrex set to 30 share
3. Xantrex shows bulk then float
4. House batteries charged Chassis batteries dead.
5. Chassis battery disconnect shows ON
6. Chassis battery charges with engine running but no charge from converter/charger with engine off.
7. BIRD solenoid does not switch on with engine running until chassis batteries are above 12.3 volts.
8. BIRD flashes red light 6 times then switches to green blinks a few times the solenoid engages and then drops out. then the red starts the 6 flashes again. Has done this several times until chassis batteries get to 12.3 volts then the solenoid stays on and the coach and chassis batteries are coupled together.

However,
with engine off the chassis batteries do not charge. BIRD solenoid is not engaged. No lights on the BIRD.



So, I am partly confused here. I am thinking that the BIRD is not functioning correctly and needs to be replace.

SO, You need to change the BIRD and associated solenoid out to a BIM or a BIM-LI to run Lithium batteries to prevent improper charging of the lithium batteries. OK got that.
There are two versions of BIM units --- one for conventional batteries and one for Lithium. What are the differences between the two units?

Question: Can you use a BIM-LI with conventional batteries ie. agm that are still good but am considering going to lithium "down the road"

Next question: how do you go about working with the 275 amp alternator with lithiium batteries? Does the BIM-LI take care of the charge rate issue?

Or am I missing something and have a different issue and the BIRD is just fine and does not need replacing?

Can someone describe in detail how the BIRD black box works? Or ideas on troubleshooting this?
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRedburn View Post
I have searched throughout the forum but unable to find answers. Forgive me if I am just repeating.

Here is the story.

Having some issue with the chassis batteries being charged while plugged in during long term storage.
1. Plugged into 50amp
2. Xantrex set to 30 share
3. Xantrex shows bulk then float
4. House batteries charged Chassis batteries dead.
5. Chassis battery disconnect shows ON
6. Chassis battery charges with engine running but no charge from converter/charger with engine off.
7. BIRD solenoid does not switch on with engine running until chassis batteries are above 12.3 volts.
8. BIRD flashes red light 6 times then switches to green blinks a few times the solenoid engages and then drops out. then the red starts the 6 flashes again. Has done this several times until chassis batteries get to 12.3 volts then the solenoid stays on and the coach and chassis batteries are coupled together.

However,
with engine off the chassis batteries do not charge. BIRD solenoid is not engaged. No lights on the BIRD.



So, I am partly confused here. I am thinking that the BIRD is not functioning correctly and needs to be replace.

SO, You need to change the BIRD and associated solenoid out to a BIM or a BIM-LI to run Lithium batteries to prevent improper charging of the lithium batteries. OK got that.
There are two versions of BIM units --- one for conventional batteries and one for Lithium. What are the differences between the two units?

Question: Can you use a BIM-LI with conventional batteries ie. agm that are still good but am considering going to lithium "down the road"

Next question: how do you go about working with the 275 amp alternator with lithiium batteries? Does the BIM-LI take care of the charge rate issue?

Or am I missing something and have a different issue and the BIRD is just fine and does not need replacing?

Can someone describe in detail how the BIRD black box works? Or ideas on troubleshooting this?
Lithium Battery Isolation Manager
Quote:
  • Under normal charging conditions, the BIM will connect for 15 minutes every 35 minutes. That means that the BIM will connect for 15 minutes, disconnect for 20 minutes, and repeat this cycle until the coach battery is charged.
  • If the coach battery resting voltage exceeds 13.4V than the BIM will disconnect. A resting voltage greater than 13.4V indicates a fully charged battery. Note that “resting voltage” means that no current is flowing to the coach battery. The BIM will disconnect if the alternator voltage exceeds 14.4V. This protects the coach battery from over charging.
  • The BIM will disconnect if the voltage difference between the alternator and the coach battery is less than 0.1V. If the voltage difference is too low, then there is a negligible charging current, and no need to connect to the coach battery.
  • The BIM will disconnect if the alternator voltage drops below 13.3V. If the alternator voltage is too low, than it cannot adequately charge the coach battery, so there is no reason to connect.
I have a RV Custom Products SDC-107A.
See: My coach batteries stopped charging from the alternator. (Bad SDC-107A).

Until I was able to adjust the trigger voltage, the SDC-107A never isolated the house batteries from the chassis battery.

New voltages is in the relay after column.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:56 PM   #3
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Thanks for the BIM info but does not answer if you can use a BIM-LI with conventional agm batteries.

Also, a DX3 has a BIRD 909-2 and I have not been able to find any specifications or literature on how this works.

More input needed.
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Old 01-17-2020, 08:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRedburn View Post
Thanks for the BIM info but does not answer if you can use a BIM-LI with conventional agm batteries.

Also, a DX3 has a BIRD 909-2 and I have not been able to find any specifications or literature on how this works.

More input needed.
Contact Precision Circuits Inc for more info on how the BIM-LI works.

I contacted RV Custom Products to get info on my SDC-107A.

Is there a label on the BIRD 909-2? Google the manufacturer to get more info. That is what I did.

You could also post a question in the Dynamax forum.
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Old 01-20-2020, 10:56 AM   #5
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I have posted the BIRD before...but will post them all here for sake of consolidation
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BIRD Sales Flyer.pdf (1.59 MB, 37 views)
File Type: pdf BIRD to BOM (retrofit).pdf (81.6 KB, 38 views)
File Type: pdf BIRD909.pdf (458.7 KB, 28 views)
File Type: pdf 00-10041-2xx-Battery-Isolation-Manager-Rev7-1.pdf (711.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: pdf 00-10041-26x-Li-BIM-Rev1.pdf (619.4 KB, 29 views)
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:22 PM   #6
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Thanks for the iinfo Mr.C.

Found out that the sense line for the coach has a 5 amp fuse that had blown. It is hidden in the "snakes nest" of cables in the electric bay.
Also found that this sense line feeds the Magnum AGS unit.

Not sure that this is/was the only issue that I have/had. The chassis batteries were down to 4.5 v when this was discovered. I have then now disconnected and on a 40 amp automatic shop charger. It has backed off to maintain 2amp charge after about 36 hours. The batteries seem to be holding 12.8v no load now for last 12 hours. Will be putting a battery load tester on them as soon as I get a chance.
After that will put/replace batteries back in to the battery bay and proceed further. I am hoping that I don't need to replace but that will depend on the load test. They were severely discharge so may have to just replace. Then it is checking out the BIRD909 unit and associated relay.

It does appear that the LI-BIM should not be used with non lithium house batteries. OK for conventional chassis batteries (agm/lead acid wet)

Jury is still out for now.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:27 PM   #7
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One other note that was in the BIM specs.

"The BIM does not guarantee 100% battery charge, but prevents harmful battery charge levels."

The batteries only get roughly 80% charge. Not a warm fuzzy here
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:20 PM   #8
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Where is the physical location of the BIRD909 unit? Trying to sort through the identical problem.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:01 PM   #9
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Where is the physical location of the BIRD909 unit? Trying to sort through the identical problem.
Found it! Located against the wall behind a bunch of wire harnesses about 10 o'clock from the solenoid.
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Old 01-23-2020, 06:44 PM   #10
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The solenoid that is controlled by the BIRD is at about the 2 o clock position from the BIRD909 black box. I think.

Anyway., if the power light is out on the AGS unit then the fuse is likely blown that is on the CO line to the BIRD.
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:56 PM   #11
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Today discovered that the lower right of the BIRD is charcoal. i.e. TOAST. Ordered replacement this afternoon. Take a few days to get here (Lake Havasu, AZ)
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Old 01-25-2020, 03:12 PM   #12
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Could any of this be the reason that our radio is dead?
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:28 PM   #13
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Could any of this be the reason that our radio is dead?

Bob,
Check the 10 amp fuse in the block above the BIRD. 1st one on the right upper corner. That is the fuse on mine for the radio/navigation unit.
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Old 01-25-2020, 04:56 PM   #14
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BINGO!! That fuse was blown! Gotta go get a replacement and maybe it'll fix the problem. I owe you one!
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:00 PM   #15
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Great!

suggest replacing with a self indicating fuse. It will light up if blown. Makes it easier to see bad fuse.


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Old 01-25-2020, 06:02 PM   #16
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That DID fix the problem! How did you know that? Between you and Joet I'll never need a shop.
Bob
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Old 01-25-2020, 06:20 PM   #17
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Well,
the Dynamax electrical engineer happened to provide me with a set of the electrical prints when I visited the plant, in reduced format. (I did ask for them explaining that I live quite a way from nearest dealer and usually do most all of my own work on the rig in my shop). They are hard to follow and in many areas are not even legible. However, there is a lot of info that is available. I usually have to study them for some time in order to decipher.

I also seem to remember that he is working on cleaning up the prints. which would really be of value then.
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Old 01-30-2020, 12:47 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
I have posted the BIRD before...but will post them all here for sake of consolidation
Question the group here; in the Dynamax retro-fit wiring diagram, it shows a diode in the Green/Black wire coming from the ignition to the BIM-Li. I'm assuming this is just a measure to prevent any possibility of a 12v backfeed into a wire that's connected to an ignition source. However, the print also says "Supplied by Dynamax" as a note on the diode. I know plenty of people who have sourced the BIM-Li from somewhere other than Dynamax and _probably_ not installed a diode on that 12v feed.

What is the collective wisdom here on needing/not needing a diode on that 12v feed?
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Old 01-30-2020, 04:22 PM   #19
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Question the group here; in the Dynamax retro-fit wiring diagram, it shows a diode in the Green/Black wire coming from the ignition to the BIM-Li. I'm assuming this is just a measure to prevent any possibility of a 12v backfeed into a wire that's connected to an ignition source. However, the print also says "Supplied by Dynamax" as a note on the diode. I know plenty of people who have sourced the BIM-Li from somewhere other than Dynamax and _probably_ not installed a diode on that 12v feed.

What is the collective wisdom here on needing/not needing a diode on that 12v feed?
On my recently delivered 2019/2020 the OEM diode was already installed. I just had to swap the BIM to Li-BIM wires.
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Old 01-31-2020, 04:30 PM   #20
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That DID fix the problem! How did you know that? Between you and Joet I'll never need a shop.
Bob
Mobile RV repair just finished our MH. Replaced the Bird and Solenoid plus another fuse. Don't know what went first. One thing took our another. Tech thinks that it began with a 'brown out' condition. All looks good now.
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