Could and Should Dynamax?

[The Renegade]

Could and should Dynamax lengthen the wheel base on their chassis for the longer rigs? I know the Force HD and DX3 can sometimes look like they have negative rake ( if thats the correct term ) and sit a little low in the rear. Would this help with the rake and would it help with handling of the rig? How do manufacturers come up with the correct dimensions to begin with?

Just thought this would be a good topic of conversation and by no means bashing.

[FOURWHL]

I think it’s in the renegade thread there was a decent discussion about this. Came down to better turning radius at the shorter WB vs more towing geared.

I’d think take would be a ride height thing regardless of WB. With airbags should be adjustable / correctable

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by FOURWHL

I think it’s in the renegade thread there was a decent discussion about this. Came down to better turning radius at the shorter WB vs more towing geared.

I’d think take would be a ride height thing regardless of WB. With airbags should be adjustable / correctable

Id say your right on the turning radius thing. Can the ride height in the rear be corrected to create positive rake with airbags? I should probably reword this because Im not sure the rake is even negative but kinda looks that way. A little Cali lean I think the West Coasters call it.

[Bill Davis]

I like having less overhang and longer wheelbase. I’m willing to put up with the longer turning radius to have less rear swing, better ride, and higher tongue weight capacity.

Don’t want to start an argument here. This is just my personal preference.

I pulled race car trailers with class C RVs for years. Less overhang always made for a better tow vehicle. (In my opinion)

[LTZ470]

Agree with Bill a longer wheelbase is going to track better and handle better, but for "my" personal use and where I camp, we require the shorter wheelbase, it is as Brian says much better for getting into narrow drives and small camping spaces...NOW if Dynamax had the tank volumes Renegade has, that would be huge for folks like me that boondock or dry camp...

[bclemens]

This topic has sort of been discussed ad nauseam (I thought we would practice our latin today), but I will indulge.

As I have written before, lots of factors go into the wheel base and drive quality...the "rule of thumb" (although to be perfectly frank I have no idea the committee that came up with this), a wheel base under 50% is not desirable. A wheel base of 50-55% is better with 55-60% being the "sweet spot" in general terms. Any shorter and you potentially sacrifice ride quality, any longer and you are sacrificing turning radius, among other things.

It's not as simple as "overhang". The rear axles are designed to carry most of the weight. Too long of a wheel base and you end up with too much weight on the front axle and potentially overloading the front axle.

The other thing is chassis stretch. On ALL BUT ONE, of the 2019 DX3 models, we use the stock wheel base. That means we are NOT stretching the OEM driveline. We currently only stretch the RB driveline. This means less potential for error and driveline issues as we are not dealing with two vendors on the driveline. Just Freightliner. As far as I know 100% of the other guys chassis drivelines are stretched.

If we look at the 2019 wheels base ratio/percentage, the Dynamax models end up with...
61%, 57%, 57% and 58%. All within the ideal range for wheel base.

If you want to see how that translates....take a Dynamax into a Cul-de-sac. Try turning it around in that Cul-de-sac. Now try a Renegade with that same test. I can confirm, you can pull a DX3 into a Cul-De-Sac and turn it around, curb to curb with the wheel base we have. You will rightfully say...well, "how often am I trying to turn around in a cul-de-sac"...but that's just to show how wheel base effects turning radius. Imagine trying to maneuver around an RV park, national park, city streets.

If you only tow 15,000 lbs trailers or you only do straight runs in open fields...why not have a 70% wheel base? As with all things in life, its about give and take. Nothing is perfect. You have to determine what is important.

As others have pointed out, the ride height can be adjusted up a bit by Freightliner. You can raise the hitch to get more clearance. But can you shorten the wheel base to get a better turning radius?

[Bill Davis]

Originally Posted by bclemens

This topic has sort of been discussed ad nauseam (I thought we would practice our latin today), but I will indulge.

As I have written before, lots of factors go into the wheel base and drive quality...the "rule of thumb" (although to be perfectly frank I have no idea the committee that came up with this), a wheel base under 50% is not desirable. A wheel base of 50-55% is better with 55-60% being the "sweet spot" in general terms. Any shorter and you potentially sacrifice ride quality, any longer and you are sacrificing turning radius, among other things.

It's not as simple as "overhang". The rear axles are designed to carry most of the weight. Too long of a wheel base and you end up with too much weight on the front axle and potentially overloading the front axle.

The other thing is chassis stretch. On ALL BUT ONE, of the 2019 DX3 models, we use the stock wheel base. That means we are NOT stretching the OEM driveline. We currently only stretch the RB driveline. This means less potential for error and driveline issues as we are not dealing with two vendors on the driveline. Just Freightliner. As far as I know 100% of the other guys chassis drivelines are stretched.

If we look at the 2019 wheels base ratio/percentage, the Dynamax models end up with...
61%, 57%, 57% and 58%. All within the ideal range for wheel base.

If you want to see how that translates....take a Dynamax into a Cul-de-sac. Try turning it around in that Cul-de-sac. Now try a Renegade with that same test. I can confirm, you can pull a DX3 into a Cul-De-Sac and turn it around, curb to curb with the wheel base we have. You will rightfully say...well, "how often am I trying to turn around in a cul-de-sac"...but that's just to show how wheel base effects turning radius. Imagine trying to maneuver around an RV park, national park, city streets.

If you only tow 15,000 lbs trailers or you only do straight runs in open fields...why not have a 70% wheel base? As with all things in life, its about give and take. Nothing is perfect. You have to determine what is important.

As others have pointed out, the ride height can be adjusted up a bit by Freightliner. You can raise the hitch to get more clearance. But can you shorten the wheel base to get a better turning radius?

All good points. Like I said it all boils down to personal preference. There’s no right or wrong answer to this thread.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by bclemens

This topic has sort of been discussed ad nauseam (I thought we would practice our latin today), but I will indulge.

As I have written before, lots of factors go into the wheel base and drive quality...the "rule of thumb" (although to be perfectly frank I have no idea the committee that came up with this), a wheel base under 50% is not desirable. A wheel base of 50-55% is better with 55-60% being the "sweet spot" in general terms. Any shorter and you potentially sacrifice ride quality, any longer and you are sacrificing turning radius, among other things.

It's not as simple as "overhang". The rear axles are designed to carry most of the weight. Too long of a wheel base and you end up with too much weight on the front axle and potentially overloading the front axle.

The other thing is chassis stretch. On ALL BUT ONE, of the 2019 DX3 models, we use the stock wheel base. That means we are NOT stretching the OEM driveline. We currently only stretch the RB driveline. This means less potential for error and driveline issues as we are not dealing with two vendors on the driveline. Just Freightliner. As far as I know 100% of the other guys chassis drivelines are stretched.

If we look at the 2019 wheels base ratio/percentage, the Dynamax models end up with...
61%, 57%, 57% and 58%. All within the ideal range for wheel base.

If you want to see how that translates....take a Dynamax into a Cul-de-sac. Try turning it around in that Cul-de-sac. Now try a Renegade with that same test. I can confirm, you can pull a DX3 into a Cul-De-Sac and turn it around, curb to curb with the wheel base we have. You will rightfully say...well, "how often am I trying to turn around in a cul-de-sac"...but that's just to show how wheel base effects turning radius. Imagine trying to maneuver around an RV park, national park, city streets.

If you only tow 15,000 lbs trailers or you only do straight runs in open fields...why not have a 70% wheel base? As with all things in life, its about give and take. Nothing is perfect. You have to determine what is important.

As others have pointed out, the ride height can be adjusted up a bit by Freightliner. You can raise the hitch to get more clearance. But can you shorten the wheel base to get a better turning radius?

I guess I should have done a search before I started the thread but had no clue it had been discussed to death. My bad. Just meant it to be educational, especially for myself. I did not know the ratios that were used and what reasons the ratios were used. I think the S2RV chassis is 9" longer than the Force and Renegade actually stretches the chassis a lot more than that. Im guessing Renegade did this to accommodate the racing trailers they were intended to pull to begin with.

I guess trying to find the perfect medium for all uses is an engineers nightmare. Does the Dynamax Force HD and DX3 still have rake when empty?

[bclemens]

I was mainly looking at the DX3 and the Force HD, so comparing that to the Verona, which the Verona seems to be about 64%. All appear to be stretched.

If you are looking at the Valencia, that has a 279" wheel base or 61% ratio for the two models they have.

We don't have anything that exact length. But if you look at the 34KD that is 440" (36'-8") and has a 61% wheel base as well.

It does not appear that Renegade stretches their valencia chassis...just the Verona stuff. I am guessing the Valencia is a stock wheel base. But I could be wrong. They may stretch if they put longer floor plans in play, but that one does not match their other wheel bases that hover around 64%

[Webefine]

Does the Dynamax Force HD and DX3 still have rake when empty?[/QUOTE]

They will look the same empty or loaded, the air bags adjust the ride height to the same point no matter what the load is.

[RV Randy]

Originally Posted by Webefine

Does the Dynamax Force HD and DX3 still have rake when empty?

They will look the same empty or loaded, the air bags adjust the ride height to the same point no matter what the load is.[/QUOTE]

My 37TS DX3 has no backend droop whether or not I am towing the 28' race car trailer that weighs over 8k when loaded.This combo is maximum legal length in Colorado.

I was worried that the extra length would make this combo tough to handle in tight spaces (track paddocks, pulling in to narrow spaces, etc). I was pleasantly surprised because with the rear overhang the trailer tracks exactly in the tire tracks of the DX3. So when I turn a tight corner I don't have to worry about the trailer cutting the inside of the turn and hitting something.

I can also run down the highway at 70 with this combo and steer with 2 fingers, no wig wag and no bucking.

[mookieblaylock]

Originally Posted by RV Randy

They will look the same empty or loaded, the air bags adjust the ride height to the same point no matter what the load is.

My 37TS DX3 has no backend droop whether or not I am towing the 28' race car trailer that weighs over 8k when loaded.This combo is maximum legal length in Colorado.

I was worried that the extra length would make this combo tough to handle in tight spaces (track paddocks, pulling in to narrow spaces, etc). I was pleasantly surprised because with the rear overhang the trailer tracks exactly in the tire tracks of the DX3. So when I turn a tight corner I don't have to worry about the trailer cutting the inside of the turn and hitting something.

I can also run down the highway at 70 with this combo and steer with 2 fingers, no wig wag and no bucking.

Does the 28' include the tongue, or is it 28' plus the tongue? What's the total length of the combo?

[RV Randy]

28 plus 4' for the tongue so 32 overall

[LTZ470]

That’s a looong train you’re pulling Randy, only legal in a few states...but I pulled at 72’ for several years and never was questioned or stopped...

[RV Randy]

I think I was wrong before, it's 28' including the tongue. That makes it 67' total, which is 2' over the 65' combo limit. Picture doesn't give a full side view but you can see there is no droop and the trailer is level since I raised the hitch. This is after sitting for 2 days so it may have even leaked down a bit.

[The Renegade]

Yes I should have known that I guess but do they have any rake at all. Can more be added? It’s for the looks of nothing else.

Randy I know you can answer that or figure it out

[KRedburn]

I will say my 37TS has the appearance of a rearward rake but the level on the floor says it is flat. So guess it is optical issue.

That being said, I do have a related question.

The front axle mount has an approximate 2 to 2.5 inch riser block between the axle and the leaf spring. This gives that huge clearance above the steer tires. I have had multiple OTR drivers ask me why the big clearance.

So I am asking the same. Why the huge front clearance of the fender above the steer tires? Probably a Freightliner standard build. The DX3 would "look" better with that gap being smaller (my opinion). It would also eliminate the optical appearance of a rear rake.

What do you guys think. And Brian a comment would be appreciated.

[joet19711]

Originally Posted by KRedburn

I will say my 37TS has the appearance of a rearward rake but the level on the floor says it is flat. So guess it is optical issue.

That being said, I do have a related question.

The front axle mount has an approximate 2 to 2.5 inch riser block between the axle and the leaf spring. This gives that huge clearance above the steer tires. I have had multiple OTR drivers ask me why the big clearance.

So I am asking the same. Why the huge front clearance of the fender above the steer tires? Probably a Freightliner standard build. The DX3 would "look" better with that gap being smaller (my opinion). It would also eliminate the optical appearance of a rear rake.

What do you guys think. And Brian a comment would be appreciated.

I noticed that 2" spacer block when I was at the rally. It was a topic

of discussion, but never got an answer. Glad the question is back.

I have a 2017 Dynamax but it is on the 2016 M2 frame.

I don't have that spacer on mine. Wondering why

[Jammer151]

I actually like the gap look....looks more like a 4x4 than a low rider.

[The Renegade]

Could someone measure the trailer hitch height from ground to the bottom of the hitch where the receiver is please.