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Old 10-13-2020, 02:47 PM   #1
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Cummins 8.9L power/torque Force HD and DX3

Dynamax.com states the engine specifications on the 2021 Force HD and DX3 as "Cumminsģ 8.9L ISL Turbo Diesel Engine (350hp/1,150 lb.-ft. of Torque)". The Cummins site lists for the 8.9l an ISL9 350hp at 1000lbft torque, or a 380hp @ 1150lbft. Which is it?
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Old 10-13-2020, 03:56 PM   #2
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It is 350/1150. They are no longer building (at least that I know of) the 1000 lb ft engine. You used to be able to flash it to 1150, which some did, but I was told that it was so popular that they did not want to do two versions. So it is, 350/1150 per Freightliner (unless you are looking at Class A engines which are different)

As a side note, early 2021 (calendar year) that will be changing to a DD8 which will be 375HP/1050 Ft lbs.
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:08 PM   #3
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As a side note, early 2021 (calendar year) that will be changing to a DD8 which will be 375HP/1050 Ft lbs.

Wow...that's big news! Safe to assume the XL will stick with the 450HP version of the 8.9?
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Old 10-13-2020, 04:34 PM   #4
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I was just going off a generic PDF on the Cummins site that wasn't chassis specific but is RV and Motorhome specific. It is notably 2017, but that's all I could get from the Cummins site.
https://powerdocs.cummins.com/engine...20RV%20Engines
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:29 PM   #5
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Wow...that's big news! Safe to assume the XL will stick with the 450HP version of the 8.9?
Correct
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Old 10-13-2020, 07:30 PM   #6
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I was just going off a generic PDF on the Cummins site that wasn't chassis specific but is RV and Motorhome specific. It is notably 2017, but that's all I could get from the Cummins site.
https://powerdocs.cummins.com/engine...20RV%20Engines
2017, no longer accurate.
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Old 10-14-2020, 08:06 AM   #7
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For what it is worth, at least one large dealer, in Alvarado Texas, has all the 2021 DX3's and Force HD's listed as 350/1000. When I inquired to them as to the accuracy it was that dealer that provided the Cummins link. I'll go by Brian's facts. Thanks
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:14 AM   #8
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I think for now I would prefer the cummins.
Primary reason is wet sleeved vs. parent bore construction
The DD8 reminds me of the CAT 3126 series. Throw away blocks.

time will tell. can we order a cummins powered Force/DX3/XL?
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:16 AM   #9
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XL stays cummins.

The only cummins Force and DX3 will be dealer stock.

The new tech will come to the Detroit stuff before the cummins, the turbo is better on the Detroit, other than that, pretty similar.

I'd be curious the number of RV's that have had to have the engine rebuilt? Like, in the entire history of the Freightliner.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:21 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
XL stays cummins.

The only cummins Force and DX3 will be dealer stock.

The new tech will come to the Detroit stuff before the cummins, the turbo is better on the Detroit, other than that, pretty similar.

I'd be curious the number of RV's that have had to have the engine rebuilt? Like, in the entire history of the Freightliner.
Id be curious on the number of RVs that ever even reach 100k miles, let alone rebuild milage.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:34 AM   #11
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I really like the Cummins as well, but I think the DD8 will be fine. It's got several years of commercial service use at this point, and FL is now even using them in the larger/heavier duty SD models. Coupled with the same 3200 series Allison, my guess is that you'd likely not be able to tell the difference between driving an M2 with the DD8 or the ISL. The specs are very similar...looks like you're just trading a few HP on the low end for a few HP on the top end (which might actually help the DD8 maintain a touch more speed pulling the hills). I wish they would have tuned up the 'fire/emergency/RV' calibration just a touch more and got it into the 400/1200 range...just for us folks that incessantly fixate on the numbers.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:36 AM   #12
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Well this thread has taken an interesting turn. I've become quite fond of the L9 and its pretty big news the new Force HD (which I hoped to order soon) and DX3 will be DD8. I asked quite a few questions on this forum of Force HD, DX3 and XL owners of what they felt about the engine and power. All raving reviews. Since first hand experience is the best reference, not sure what to do with this engine change, which for all I know will be an improvement. I am providing a link, albeit of the slightly lower HP versions of each, and granted it is sales literature from Cummins, but it certainly raises some concern, at least to me. I doubt a big, reputable company like Freightliner would make a change like this unless they felt it a stable change. I would be curious as to why they did make the change. Weight and costs seem to be similar in the two engines.

https://www.icbus.com/-/media/icbus/...parison-r4.pdf
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:51 AM   #13
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Frieghtliner offers either cummins or detroit in the M2 chassis. It is customer choice as to which engine is installed.
Price points are probably different as is the weight.
Cummins being the heavier engine.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
XL stays cummins.



I'd be curious the number of RV's that have had to have the engine rebuilt? Like, in the entire history of the Freightliner.
adversity does happen. I seem to recall a thread on here wherein the delivery driver had an engine go "bad" several hours from the Dynamax plant and ended up with the engine having to be replaced.

so adversity happens
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:24 PM   #15
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I believe that Freightliner is a Daimler company as is Detroit Diesel. It would only make sense for Freightliner to use a DD engine given that it is just as good as the Cummins. IMHO
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:13 PM   #16
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I for one like to know the engine I am getting in a large investment such as a Dynamax. I do a lot of research. But apparently not enough in that when I picked up my 2020 Isata 5 come to find out weeks later its built on a 2018 Dodge Ram5500 chassis. Although it didn't take long and a some google surfing to discover that is pretty common with any manufacturer that builds on cab/chassis. So how does one know what year Freightliner chassis, and what engine you would be getting on today's order of a Force HD or DX3? The dealers don't seem to have a clue. Some don't even seem know the hp/torque rating of what they are selling now.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:21 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Invisibleman View Post
I for one like to know the engine I am getting in a large investment such as a Dynamax. I do a lot of research. But apparently not enough in that when I picked up my 2020 Isata 5 come to find out weeks later its built on a 2018 Dodge Ram5500 chassis. Although it didn't take long and a some google surfing to discover that is pretty common with any manufacturer that builds on cab/chassis. So how does one know what year Freightliner chassis, and what engine you would be getting on today's order of a Force HD or DX3? The dealers don't seem to have a clue. Some don't even seem know the hp/torque rating of what they are selling now.
I think Mr. C said that "early calendar year 2021" it would switching to DD8. So, today's order would be Cummins based. ( I assume)
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:32 PM   #18
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Yes, I did notice he said that, early 21 being soonish. He also said everything other than on dealer lots now would be the DD8, and he usually has his facts pretty accurate. But I believe that still leaves it up in the air a bit. There are a lot of dealers with Dynamax stock on-order, still weeks or months out. From my past experience they could be working off older chassis, or right at the switch point, etc. I think the purchaser should be able to know the year of the chassis and engine/transmission at the time of order; just my opinion. And, I may be making something out of nothing. Maybe most buyers aren't interested. But even when I buy a pickup or even a car, the engine specs have always been important to me.
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:41 PM   #19
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Yes, I did notice he said that, early 21 being soonish. He also said everything other than on dealer lots now would be the DD8, and he usually has his facts pretty accurate. But I believe that still leaves it up in the air a bit. There are a lot of dealers with Dynamax stock on-order, still weeks or months out. From my past experience they could be working off older chassis, or right at the switch point, etc. I think the purchaser should be able to know the year of the chassis and engine/transmission at the time of order; just my opinion. And, I may be making something out of nothing. Maybe most buyers aren't interested. But even when I buy a pickup or even a car, the engine specs have always been important to me.
I will agree with you. Maybe BC could inform us of "month of order" on will be DD8.
Or move to an XL and then you will know that it is 450/1250 cummins
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Old 10-14-2020, 01:45 PM   #20
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I totally agree with you and feel that you should be able to easily figure out what chassis your order will be built on. I tend to agree with Ken's assessment as well...more than likely the DD8 based chassis won't even show up at the Dynamax facility or upfitter's shop until early 2021. That's how I read Brian's comments, anyway.
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