Dead chassis Batts/Dash over ride button

[caseymyers]

I've been having issues with occasionally having two dead starting batteries in my 2019 I5 DS. I'm guessing some parasitic draw down while sitting for weeks in storage. I've tried to use the momentary switch on the dash to connect the coach batteries so it will give the engine the juice it needs to start. When I push and hold the momentary button nothing happens. In other words I'm not getting any power from the coach batts. Should I be looking for a fuse somewhere that might be blown? Or is this some issue associated with the BIRD? Or am I doing something wrong? If I run the Generator for 30 mins or more sometimes the engine will start w/o pressing the momentary switch. I get the sense the switch is not connected or I have a fuse out somewhere. Anyone out there experienced this issue and have a fix for me?

[milkman55]

Figured 2018 chassis and found the aux manual. It talks about fuses for the connection under the hood. You might look for the connector pictures and see if any of the wires coming from the connector have a fuse holder.

http://www-origin.b2cbrndram.ramtruc...cc/dddpaux.pdf

[bubbles]

It sounds as though you are not on shore power in storage and therefore all the batteries (coach/chassis) are discharging. The coach batteries need to be charged enough to energize the BIM/BIRD (internal/external paralleling solenoid) or whatever you have to tie the batteries together. Starting the genny will start charging all the batteries via converter interconnected with BIM/BIRD. This could be one scenario for your issue.

[BLT4SPD]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

I've been having issues with occasionally having two dead starting batteries in my 2019 I5 DS. I'm guessing some parasitic draw down while sitting for weeks in storage. I've tried to use the momentary switch on the dash to connect the coach batteries so it will give the engine the juice it needs to start. When I push and hold the momentary button nothing happens. In other words I'm not getting any power from the coach batts. Should I be looking for a fuse somewhere that might be blown? Or is this some issue associated with the BIRD? Or am I doing something wrong? If I run the Generator for 30 mins or more sometimes the engine will start w/o pressing the momentary switch. I get the sense the switch is not connected or I have a fuse out somewhere. Anyone out there experienced this issue and have a fix for me?

Personally, I have no experience with it, but I am always going to be suspect of the BIRD. The fact that you can run the generator for any amount of time and get enough juice to start the engine tells me that the BIRD might be working though. Question is, why is the solenoid not latching when you press the AUX button. I guess this is where I would start just based on the Dynamax diagrams I have:

In the inverter bay, there is a small bank of 4 fuses. The one to the far left (closest to the bay door) SHOULD be a 10a fuse. That is supposedly for “Chassis Battery Sense” that looks like it might feed the BIRD chassis battery voltage. It looks like there might be a pink colored wire coming from this fuse to the BIRD (or maybe the solenoid). Either way, check that fuse.

Also, Milkman55 is correct, the AUX switches themselves are fuse protected by FCA. It appears that the end user is supposed to insert the fuse of correct size to meet the needs of what they are connecting to the switch. I can’t imagine that latching that solenoid takes a bunch of amps, but maybe. The AUX PDC (Power Distribution Center) is located under the hood, on the driver’s side, just in front of the AUX connectors (1 dark grey and 1 light grey) which are mounted VERY close to the firewall.

Also, based on the BIRD wiring diagram, it appears that the wire connected to the terminal labeled “SOL” is what triggers the solenoid to latch. So, I would be tempted to unplug that single wire and connect an external +12v source to it and see if I can get the solenoid to latch that way. At least that would eliminate the possibility of a bad solenoid.

Attached below are the Ram Upfitter component location diagram, Ram Upfitter wiring diagram and BIRD wiring diagram/fault reading:

[Phreak480]

I'd bet that since the AUX switches in the ram upfitter setup are powered from the chassis that if the batteries are too low on the chassis then you won't be able to get it to activate and link the house batteries in. A low chassis battery might do it but if really dead then likely not.

[bubbles]

Originally Posted by Phreak480

I'd bet that since the AUX switches in the ram upfitter setup are powered from the chassis that if the batteries are too low on the chassis then you won't be able to get it to activate and link the house batteries in. A low chassis battery might do it but if really dead then likely not.

This makes no sense for wanting (having the ability) to use the coach batteries to start the engine. Think about it. The reason for the AUX (emergency) start is because the chassis batteries are depleted (discharged).

[Phreak480]

I agree it doesn't make sense, but the RAM truck AUX switches that are a factory upfitter item are supplied from the chassis battery as per the way RAM builds them. Now they could indeed get modified though and power from the coach batteries which would make more sense if one wanted to use 1 switch for this function. Unfortunately unless the folks at Dynamax made such a modification they will be fed from the chassis battery and if it gets too low you will be unable to use the switch to trigger the relay to trigger the BIRD to combine the coach and chassis batteries.

The big problem is that RAM trucks just designed these aux switches to be an aux from the chassis. They have them on the regular pickups too, not just bare chassis units.

[BLT4SPD]

Originally Posted by Phreak480

I'd bet that since the AUX switches in the ram upfitter setup are powered from the chassis that if the batteries are too low on the chassis then you won't be able to get it to activate and link the house batteries in. A low chassis battery might do it but if really dead then likely not.

That's so amazingly simple that's scary. It makes perfect sense that it would work that way as well. Hmmmmm.....I wonder if this ever came up with Dynamax? I also wonder what is the minimum voltage needed to latch the solenoid in a BIRD setup or the BIM?

[Phreak480]

Originally Posted by BLT4SPD

That's so amazingly simple that's scary. It makes perfect sense that it would work that way as well. Hmmmmm.....I wonder if this ever came up with Dynamax? I also wonder what is the minimum voltage needed to latch the solenoid in a BIRD setup or the BIM?

There are really a few questions to be asked. Does the BIRD get it's power from the house battery or chassis battery?

Does the BIRD solenpoid get it's power from the house battery or the chassis?

If the BIRD and it's solenoid both are both powered from the hose battery then let's for argument sake assume the house bat will be always good. Then the question is what is the minimum voltage on the chassis battery to actuate the factory upfitter switch and associated relay? And what is the minimum trigger voltage the BIRD wants to see to decide to energize the solenoid?

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

I've been having issues with occasionally having two dead starting batteries in my 2019 I5 DS. I'm guessing some parasitic draw down while sitting for weeks in storage. I've tried to use the momentary switch on the dash to connect the coach batteries so it will give the engine the juice it needs to start. When I push and hold the momentary button nothing happens. In other words I'm not getting any power from the coach batts. Should I be looking for a fuse somewhere that might be blown? Or is this some issue associated with the BIRD? Or am I doing something wrong? If I run the Generator for 30 mins or more sometimes the engine will start w/o pressing the momentary switch. I get the sense the switch is not connected or I have a fuse out somewhere. Anyone out there experienced this issue and have a fix for me?

My momentary switch didn't do anything and I found a 15A fuse missing by the Battery Isolation Manager. Installed it and works perfectly. Isata 3 has different setup but something to look at.

[WeQuit]

Ben, in the BIRD info you posted earlier it seems to produce a fault with battery voltage below 9.5V. I was looking at the LI-BIM and it gives a min coil voltage of 9V. It seems like that's the low end of BIM/BIRD operation. Casey, do you have any idea what your chassis battery was down to when it wouldn't work?

Also, it looks like you can get the LI-BIM to combine by taking the signal input to ground. Not sure how that works (yay the magic of having a microprocessor in the loop?). But, handy thing to try if those with a LIT-BIM need it one day and the dash button doesn't work.

http://precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-c...i-BIM-Rev1.pdf

Matt

[Delco Bobby]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

I've been having issues with occasionally having two dead starting batteries in my 2019 I5 DS. I'm guessing some parasitic draw down while sitting for weeks in storage. I've tried to use the momentary switch on the dash to connect the coach batteries so it will give the engine the juice it needs to start. When I push and hold the momentary button nothing happens. In other words I'm not getting any power from the coach batts. Should I be looking for a fuse somewhere that might be blown? Or is this some issue associated with the BIRD? Or am I doing something wrong? If I run the Generator for 30 mins or more sometimes the engine will start w/o pressing the momentary switch. I get the sense the switch is not connected or I have a fuse out somewhere. Anyone out there experienced this issue and have a fix for me?

I was once told to hold the AUX SWITCH down for a minute or so BEFORE trying to start the engine. I don’t know if that is what you did but worth a try.

[Reverse_snowbird]

I think you're correct about having a parasitic draw. Our rig is built on a RAM Promaster and the owners manual says to not use the emergency brake while storing because the RAM monitors the emergency brake and discharges the battery. It also says to disconnect the battery if storing over 2 weeks. (We remove the negative cable to disconnect it.)
If you're able to start the RAM after running the generator, then somehow it is charging the battery. Usually it charges the house batteries.
You really shouldn't be depending on the house batteries to start the engine. A better solution would be to disconnect the negative cable when storing so that you're not killing the battery. Then you probably need someone to trace and see if you've got a blown fuse.

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by WeQuit

Ben, in the BIRD info you posted earlier it seems to produce a fault with battery voltage below 9.5V. I was looking at the LI-BIM and it gives a min coil voltage of 9V. It seems like that's the low end of BIM/BIRD operation. Casey, do you have any idea what your chassis battery was down to when it wouldn't work?

Also, it looks like you can get the LI-BIM to combine by taking the signal input to ground. Not sure how that works (yay the magic of having a microprocessor in the loop?). But, handy thing to try if those with a LIT-BIM need it one day and the dash button doesn't work.

http://precisioncircuitsinc.com/wp-c...i-BIM-Rev1.pdf

Matt

I think about 11.3 volts.

[caseymyers]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. I now have another problem. I left the batteries on for the past week with the coach in storage. Went there today to do some work and the batteries were down to 5 volts, that's with solar charging too. Not sure I understand how parasitic draws could drain 4 AGM batteries in one week. I started the engine and within a few minutes the Go Power gauge was showing 6.2 volts. And the BIRD green light would come on and then go off for a minute or so, cycling like that. So I plugged the coach in and sometimes the green light would stay on for a few minutes then go off again, all this on the BIRD. And within maybe 5 mins the Go Power gauge was now reading 14.5 volts. The BIRD is now flashing a green light on a regular basis and according to the BIRD single data sheet that means 'Low Battery' voltage. I tried to start the GenSet and the start switch was flashing, the Go Power volts dropped to 13.2 volts and there was a click and all the house lights went out and the GenSet start switch stopped flashing. My guess is that the batteries are still dead. That I must either have a huge battery drain even with everything Off and that maybe the BIRD is not functioning properly? Any ideas on what I might trouble shoot to figure this all out? All I have on the BIRD is that single data sheet and I tried to access KIB's web site to no avail. Any electric experts out there that can tell me what to trouble shoot?
Thanks again,
Casey

[Whalenss]

Maybe this will help 53-00362-100.pdf

[vlamgat]

The other issue could be the lack of, or intermittent shore or solar power at the storage facility. I use one of these to track this and in its latest form with built in SIM and a subscription, I can monitor power and temperature on my cell phone from anywhere.

https://www.isocket3g.com/en/

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by vlamgat

The other issue could be the lack of, or intermittent shore or solar power at the storage facility. I use one of these to track this and in its latest form with built in SIM and a subscription, I can monitor power and temperature on my cell phone from anywhere.

https://www.isocket3g.com/en/

Thanks for this. Sounds like a great device but I am never plugged in at my storage yard.

[vlamgat]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Thanks for this. Sounds like a great device but I am never plugged in at my storage yard.

So what I do in those circumstances: I have a small inverter connected directly to the batteries. It must have 11.7 volts to provide 110V. I plug this device into that inverter. If the batteries fall below 11.7, the device is cut off and it sends me a text to that effect. I can also check the temperature wherever I have positioned the device as I do not winterise other than to drain and blow out the system. I believe the inverter/device uses 400ma which solar easily replaces.

[caseymyers]

Ok, I just checked the batteries with an ohm meter and I’m getting 12.73 volts at each of the 4 batteries. I left them plugged into shore power overnight. Does this mean that they’ve recovered? They easily started the GenSet. Or do I have to order new coach from Brian?