Dynamax Wheel Base

[The Renegade]

I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage.

First I have owned a Force HD and really liked it. I did get rid of it for a specific reason. I have a good friend who is on a trip now and in Wyoming on a 6 week trip. We both feel the same way and I have heard different perspectives but why does Dmax not offer a variety of wheel base options on different length rigs. There is absolutely no way a 268” wheelbase can be optimal for a rig from 34’-40 MH? It can only be based around buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line.

Listen don’t get me wrong. I love the Dmax floor plans and options. I think Brian is a valuable asset to the brand. But in reality there is no viable explanation to one size chassis fits all. I hope they address this in the future and I am sure I will be thrashed real quick but let’s please read and address the real facts. Thrash if you must but at least study what I’m saying first. I think Dmax and Brian are both great but as my friend in Wyoming says, the tail swing is just too excessive and he will trade as soon as he returns home.

Please don’t take this thread wrong. It is meant to be constructive and helpful.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage.

First I have owned a Force HD and really liked it. I did get rid of it for a specific reason. I have a good friend who is on a trip now and in Wyoming on a 6 week trip. We both feel the same way and I have heard different perspectives but why does Dmax not offer a variety of wheel base options on different length rigs. There is absolutely no way a 268” wheelbase can be optimal for a rig from 34’-40 MH? It can only be based around buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line.

Listen don’t get me wrong. I love the Dmax floor plans and options. I think Brian is a valuable asset to the brand. But in reality there is no viable explanation to one size chassis fits all. I hope they address this in the future and I am sure I will be thrashed real quick but let’s please read and address the real facts. Thrash if you must but at least study what I’m saying first. I think Dmax and Brian are both great but as my friend in Wyoming says, the tail swing is just too excessive and he will trade as soon as he returns home.

Please don’t take this thread wrong. It is meant to be constructive and helpful.

I have no issue with constructive suggestions, but you can't just say "the real facts" if you don't actually know the real facts. You have not backed up any of your suggestions with facts...and yes, this topic has been discussed multiple times....but I like a good debate, so here we go.

We only offer 268": False. We have 268" and we also have 286" on the RB

You say that there is "no way" that a 268" wheel base can be optimal, but provide no back up evidence, just speculation. The general rule of thumb (and this varies a bit), 55-56% is a good wheel base ratio. Some say you can go as low as 50%, I do not. 57% and up is even better, with 60% being the sweet spot. THAT, by itself, does not mean all that much. You also ignore balance and weight in your speculation. We have to balance side to side, front to back. The longer the wheel base, the more weight you end up putting on the front axle, the shorter the wheel base, the more you put on the rear axles (which clearly, duallies will carry more). For a wheel base under 55%, they say it is difficult to keep on the road and the ride is fatiguing. The longer the wheel base, the ride improves but the turning radius and front axle load suffers. So the key is BALANCE. Our wheel base percentages on the DX3 are 61% (KD), 57% (BH, TS), 58% (RB). SO ALL at or above the margin considered good. So to say "no way it can be optimal" is false. Where we do save is in time. With the same wheel base we can lay out the chassis upfit pretty reasonably, consistency means better quality and we know how that set up balances out. it allows us to place tanks and other items in relatively common locations to use common parts (also efficient). And as long as we are within the range considered "better-best", then why not?

As for "It can only be based around buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line" Also False. We do not save a dime, by having the same wheel base in bulk. Freightliner does not care, they will build us anything we want in increments of 1". Same basic price. MORryde also does our upfit AND they stretch the driveline as needed. So we can bring them all in in bulk and have MORryde stretch the chassis to what we need when they are doing the upfit...but again, if we are within the good range, why bother? The more we mess with the stock driveline, the more finger pointing and complications there can be down the road. If we offered a different wheel base on all models, every driveline would have to be altered (no way to bring them in at all various lengths and try to balance what floor plans sell)

As you have heard over and over (and you admitted yourself when trying to get into a campsite with your Renegade), the Dynamax stuff tracks perfectly with the trailer. It has a tighter turning radius with the shorter wheel base (but not too short).

"there is no viable explanation to one size chassis fits all". In my opinion, I just gave a pretty compelling one. And its more like 2 size chassis fits all.

So, rattle the cage all you want, but facts will support your argument much more effectively.


My advice: buy a 34KD. You get a Dynamax and a shorter tail swing. Problem solved.

[Whalenss]

I have no opinion on this.

Just curious how the ratio BC mentions is calculated.

Thanks

[bclemens]

Wheel Base divided by overall length.

So for instance, your 36DS wheel base is 265".
Overall length is 36'-5" (437")

265"/437" = 60.64% sweet spot

[FOURWHL]

On more than one occasion I've impresses onlookers with the space I can turn this caravan around in. And the tail swing for sure helps the trailer track. It's like built in counter steer.

As with everything the limits need to be learned and worked within.

I've since lifted my trailer (still haven't even done the hitch) and I rarely drag anymore and can spot a location that will drag and approach it as at angle or keep on driving.

[I5PhilGa]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Wheel Base divided by overall length.

So for instance, your 36DS wheel base is 265".
Overall length is 36'-5" (437")

265"/437" = 60.64% sweet spot

And “SWEET” it IS !!

[msusslin]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage.

First I have owned a Force HD and really liked it. I did get rid of it for a specific reason. I have a good friend who is on a trip now and in Wyoming on a 6 week trip. We both feel the same way and I have heard different perspectives but why does Dmax not offer a variety of wheel base options on different length rigs. There is absolutely no way a 268” wheelbase can be optimal for a rig from 34’-40 MH? It can only be based around buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line.

Listen don’t get me wrong. I love the Dmax floor plans and options. I think Brian is a valuable asset to the brand. But in reality there is no viable explanation to one size chassis fits all. I hope they address this in the future and I am sure I will be thrashed real quick but let’s please read and address the real facts. Thrash if you must but at least study what I’m saying first. I think Dmax and Brian are both great but as my friend in Wyoming says, the tail swing is just too excessive and he will trade as soon as he returns home.

Please don’t take this thread wrong. It is meant to be constructive and helpful.

Have you considered getting an Isata 5 30FW with a 61% wheelbase to overall length ratio? Amazing rig and after 20K miles of driving no complaints about excessive tail swing.

[The Renegade]

Dang Brother BC take a chill pill and relax. Have a drink... Have 2... I tried my best to express my likes about Dmax but people should also feel comfortable about posting their dislikes without being condemned or intimidated.

This is an open forum and I expressed my appreciation as well as everyone else does on here about your benefit and dedication to your job and brand but man you get way out of line and way too defensive when someone questions anything...

You said I make comments without backing it up with facts. Well the FACT is Dmax builds a beautiful motorhome with very nice floorpans and interior decor. Another FACT is you do a great job on here answering a lot of questions for owners.. Another FACT is the wheelbase to a lot of people and owners is they have way too much overhang. Has a school bus look to it.

You quote sweet spot.... Is that an industry sweet spot or is that YOUR sweet spot?

Newmar Super Star which I would say Newmar has great engineers and is a top of the line brand sees it different.
Newmar Super Star 4059 comes in at 69%..
Renegade Verona 40VRB comes in at 64%..
Jayco Seneca 37 L comes in at 59%
Dymax 37BH comes in at 56%

You wanted facts well there they are... I hate to be a butt head but dang man you need to chill when talking to the public just because they may not agree with you.
You mention my Renegade... How do you know what I am driving this year? I may be in a Newmar DS or I might even be in a Dmax DX3...

I am simply posing an observation and would not have even had it on my mind if my friend in Wyoming right now had not brought it up..

Now Im sure you will have all these defensive facts and things to say back to me which I'm good with so go ahead...

PS... My math was done in a hurry and on the road so feel free to double check. I may have made a mistake..

[FOURWHL]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage.

First I have owned a Force HD and really liked it. I did get rid of it for a specific reason. I have a good friend who is on a trip now and in Wyoming on a 6 week trip. We both feel the same way and I have heard different perspectives but why does Dmax not offer a variety of wheel base options on different length rigs. There is absolutely no way a 268” wheelbase can be optimal for a rig from 34’-40 MH? It can only be based around buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line.

Listen don’t get me wrong. I love the Dmax floor plans and options. I think Brian is a valuable asset to the brand. But in reality there is no viable explanation to one size chassis fits all. I hope they address this in the future and I am sure I will be thrashed real quick but let’s please read and address the real facts. Thrash if you must but at least study what I’m saying first. I think Dmax and Brian are both great but as my friend in Wyoming says, the tail swing is just too excessive and he will trade as soon as he returns home.

Please don’t take this thread wrong. It is meant to be constructive and helpful.

Wait so you're confused how you say get's people riled up? It's not your opinion or expressing a different taste. Its constantly talking in absolutes as if everyone agrees with you or somehow that's necessary to add weight to your opinions.

Personally I thought that was a pretty well laid out explanation... not defensive. I think it was just a presentation of several "Viable ways" they are built the way they are.

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by FOURWHL

Wait so you're confused how you say get's people riled up? It's not your opinion or expressing a different taste. Its constantly talking in absolutes as if everyone agrees with you or somehow that's necessary to add weight to your opinions.

Personally I thought that was a pretty well laid out explanation... not defensive. I think it was just a presentation of several "Viable ways" they are built the way they are.

I can respect that FOURWHL coming from you.. You have always been one who is level headed and thats being serious.. Thank you for your response and taken as constructive...

If my posts are taken in constantly talking in absolutes I did not mean them to sound that way or come across that way.. Also no one should ever add weight to my opinions for sure when it comes to buying a MH.. I guess thats the bad thing about posting rather then being about to talk face to face where things get taken the wrong way.

When I said I knew I was going to rattle cages I knew BC was gonna go off. He always does...

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

Dang Brother BC take a chill pill and relax. Have a drink... Have 2... I tried my best to express my likes about Dmax but people should also feel comfortable about posting their dislikes without being condemned or intimidated.

This is an open forum and I expressed my appreciation as well as everyone else does on here about your benefit and dedication to your job and brand but man you get way out of line and way too defensive when someone questions anything...

You said I make comments without backing it up with facts. Well the FACT is Dmax builds a beautiful motorhome with very nice floorpans and interior decor. Another FACT is you do a great job on here answering a lot of questions for owners.. Another FACT is the wheelbase to a lot of people and owners is they have way too much overhang. Has a school bus look to it.

You quote sweet spot.... Is that an industry sweet spot or is that YOUR sweet spot?

Newmar Super Star which I would say Newmar has great engineers and is a top of the line brand sees it different.
Newmar Super Star 4059 comes in at 69%..
Renegade Verona 40VRB comes in at 64%..
Jayco Seneca 37 L comes in at 59%
Dymax 37BH comes in at 56%

You wanted facts well there they are... I hate to be a butt head but dang man you need to chill when talking to the public just because they may not agree with you.
You mention my Renegade... How do you know what I am driving this year? I may be in a Newmar DS or I might even be in a Dmax DX3...

I am simply posing an observation and would not have even had it on my mind if my friend in Wyoming right now had not brought it up..

Now Im sure you will have all these defensive facts and things to say back to me which I'm good with so go ahead...

lol...Hunh? I was 100% chill when I wrote that. You are 100% welcome to post your opinion and I am 100% fine to counter it with data. I am not sure how that is condemning someone or intimidating, but to each his own. I think you are the one being a bit sensitive on this topic. All I was doing was putting data to your declarations of fact.

"school bus look to it". I'm OK with that...schools buses drive millions of miles and shuttle millions of kids, to and from school safely. I will take that as a compliment.

Sweet spot. (not mine, I just do a lot of consumer research)
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/is-...io-425049.html
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/f...d/27411233.cfm
https://www.rvforum.net/threads/whee...centage.99327/

If 60% is good, why not 70%? why not 90%? The longer the safer right? no tail swing? So the question becomes, why NOT 80% wheel base? There has to be a reason that we don't run 80% wheel bases. So other things have to take into account, like axle weight and turning radius, which we do.

As for your wheel base %, Newmar has been building Super C's for all of one year-ish. They might be experts at diesel pushers, but they are new to Super C's. Dynamax and Renegade have been doing it much longer, so if 69% made sense, you would think they would be doing it all along, even they disagree and run at 64%.

To clarify, the Force 37BD (formerly BD) has a 268" wheel base and overall length of 39'-2" (470"). 268/470 = 57.0213% (not 56%).
34KD is 60.9091%

I'm still not sure you laid out any facts. You simply posted the wheel base % of other manufacturers. So while that IS a fact, it is not a fact that supports your claims.

Your argument is this...
"Newmar has great engineers" (that is opinion not fact), "They are top of the line brand" (also opinion). You then post their wheel base as factual evidence that that is the ideal wheel base, based on two previous comments. Can I then theorize that Renegade has a crappy wheel base since they are not the same as Newmar?

In 2020..
Jayco sold 830 Diesel Class C's
Dynamax sold 765 Diesel Class C's
Renegade Sold 763 Diesel Class C's
Newmar sold 45 Diesel Class C's.

I would argue that Newmar does not have the numbers to support your claim, nor do they have the experience/historical data with actual customer feedback on Diesel Class C's to support you claim. I could make the argument with this data that they are the 4th best brand, but that is also not a fair statement as the data given only supports the sales side of things. So I will not make such a claim.

I think I have supported my side of things. I do not claim to have the ideal wheel base. We certainly make some tradeoffs for uniformity and efficiency or every wheel base would be exactly 60%. I don't think Newmar has the ideal WB, nor Renegade. I think we all put together what we think works for the majority of our customer base. If we were going to be just like everyone else, why bother building at all.

As for facts...they are neither defensive or offensive, they are just facts.

I'm sure now you will claim that I am "going off", or "need to chill", but I am not upset or angry or defensive, simply providing data that dispels your statements.

"There is no viable explanation for a one size fits all chassis"
"there is no way a 268" wheel base can be optimal"
"it can only be based on buying chassis in bulk and the bottom line"

[Chicken Corners]

765 to 763, wow! That’s close. Interesting. Dynamax Vs. Renegade.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Chicken Corners

765 to 763, wow! That’s close. Interesting. Dynamax Vs. Renegade.

I actually feel like we occupy fairly different spaces.

We have been more successful at the Mercedes-Benz and 19,500 GVWR product.

But the success of the Isata 3 and 5 has hindered our ability to produce more M2's as that market has grown. They were already in the big-big chassis, so they almost enjoy a monopoly there. They also got to market sooner with a lower cost S2RV. This is a marathon though and we're just about through our restructuring. By the end of the year, we should be positioned very well.

[The Renegade]

Could it be this reason of unfounded claims with no data? Dymax uses smaller front axles then the comparable brands and comparable models except for Jayco?
With the lighter axles do you have to be more sensitive to the wheelbase ratios then the other brands?

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by Mountieman

Could it be this reason of unfounded claims with no data?

I'm not even sure what this statement means.

Originally Posted by Mountieman

Dymax uses smaller front axles then the comparable brands and comparable models except for Jayco?
With the lighter axles do you have to be more sensitive to the wheelbase ratios then the other brands?

We use a 12,000 lbs front axle on the europa and up.

Jayco Seneca uses a 10k front axle (S2RV not M2). (similar wheel base to us and yet 2k lighter axle rating)

Renegade uses a 12K front axle on their Valencia and yet has a longer wheel base.

We average at least 2500 lbs available on the front axle, so we certainly have the room to go longer if we wanted. So to answer your question, if it was a question, no, not really. We have to be aware of it, but we have capacity to go longer if we chose to.

I almost feel like you are just throwing darts. "Ooh, what about this one, see if that sticks".

Let's just end it at "you would like a longer wheel base, because that is your preference. Data or no data, that is what you want" and you should buy what you want.

And I'm OK with that. You have clearly presented several mfg's that offer that. I am excited to tour your Newmar Superstar when you get it...and I mean that. I would like to see what changes they have made since the proto I saw.

[bclemens]

Well, well, well. I also just noticed the Valencia. Would you look at that,

Wheel base ratio 60.9% and 58.3%.

Maybe its just a matter of setting things up for RVing vs. Hauling.

[rskeans]

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Well, well, well. I also just noticed the Valencia. Would you look at that,

Wheel base ratio 60.9% and 58.3%.

Maybe its just a matter of setting things up for RVing vs. Hauling.

Did I mention Valencia?? No I dont think so.. You are definitely an expert at deflection.. I dont think the Valencia was even mentioned in any of my wheelbase ratios so well well well like a 3rd grade kid.. Jez dude stick to the topic and dont try to treat me like you are more educated then me. Learn to take criticism from customers or potential customers and roll with it dude.

Im here to discuss this or argue with you all you want until you turn me into the mods and get it removed. Tell me what the front axle on the DX3 is vs the Newmar Superstar vs the Renegade Verona? With this I am not saying one is better than the other.. I am just making comparison to wheelbase ratios and trying to understand why Dmax is so short. Thats it. No slamming, no insults, no harm intended...

It seems to me you are the one throwing crap out there hoping to see if someone buys your deflection and claims.. Stay on topic..

[CyberShanks]

"I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage."


From an outside perspective, if you're just here to discuss instead of argue, you certainly started the thread off wrong IMO.


Just sayin...


Jim

[The Renegade]

Originally Posted by CyberShanks

"I have posed this question before and I am sure I am fixing to rattle some cages here but that is not the intention other then maybe rattling Dmax cage."


From an outside perspective, if you're just here to discuss instead of argue, you certainly started the thread off wrong IMO.


Just sayin...


Jim

No disrespect intended Jim... I just know BC and how he acts toward any kind of criticism. He does not take it as constructive but instantly becomes defensive and comes up with all kinds of deflective excuses rather then addressing the issue at hand. If you will read I was very careful to extend gratitude toward him and Dmax from the start. I think Dmax offers a great product and offers a great variety in floorpans and definately interior design and comfort. Is is not ok to say the good and the bad? I do not care what product I own. I will try my best to give my honest opinion of the good and the bad. That does not mean it is the gospel but it is an honest opinion. If I own a Newmar, I will tell you what I think is the good and the bad. If I own a Renegade, the same thing. It is meant as helpful opinions to the potential consumer who is searching for valuable info on a major purchase for their lifestyle. It does not matter if you are buying a 100k MH or a 500k MH.. To the consumer it is all the same based on hard work and investment.

Again I am not debating which brand is best nor saying one is better than the other. It is merely a debate on why Dmax has the shortest wheelbase in the industry. This is something that should be pointed out to potential buyers without any bias. Is it the lighter axles in the front end? I dont know and not ashamed to acknowledge. Would just like an honest answer without deflecting to off topic reasons by the online exec..

Like I said it had not been on my mind for quite a long time but was pointed out by a friend who is out on a trip and has been so for about 6 weeks. He pointed it out and did remind me of one of the reasons I had sold mine.

If I have stepped on toes of consumers that currently own a Dmax I do apologize. But as far as BC, no apologies what so ever........