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03-06-2020, 08:07 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Electrical Outage Help Please
Hello Everyone
We are in a bit of a pickle.
Arrived at our campground for the night. Plugged in and all was good.
As the evening went on we noticed lights flickering. Followed by one of the inverter pole breakers tripped and then found the 50amp breaker tripped.
We’ve moved to 30 amp and reset but now have one of the gfi breakers tripped. None of the outlets have power including the refrigerator.
Any help would really be appreciated!
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03-06-2020, 08:20 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,520
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Do you have a volt meter?
50A tripped..In the coach or at the pedestal?
__________________
Joe & Debbie
2017 Dynamax DX3 37BH
Toad: 2020 Ford F-150
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03-06-2020, 08:27 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Canyon Lake, Texas
Posts: 1,821
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To exclude the RV Park pedestal, can you unplug and start the generstor to see if you have power off the generator? Assume you have a surge protector that reports the status of the RV Park power?
__________________
2021 Isata 5 30FW
2014 Honda CR-V
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03-06-2020, 08:33 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,520
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since he has not got right back to us, he is either working on it, or he has
found the problem.
__________________
Joe & Debbie
2017 Dynamax DX3 37BH
Toad: 2020 Ford F-150
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03-06-2020, 10:21 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Sorry guys
Was on the phone with the dealers service department electrician troubleshooting.
What we know.
- All works fine on battery / inverter power.
- When on generator or shore power several GFI outlets will not work as well as the refrigerator will not work. In addition the passenger side gfi breaker is tripped (on panel under /side of bed).
- From a power filtering perspective, the park pedestal runs into a watchdog Surge protector then to a houghs Autoformer. We have taken both those out of the loop and the RV issues remain when in park power.
We are in route to Elkhart for a factory service appointment in Monday.
At this point (unless it’s an easy fix here) our plan is to boondock tonight in Little Rock then drive to Terre Houte tomorrow and boondock again. Will have it at the factory Sunday night for our Monday appointment.
We certainly do appreciate any thoughts that might help restore power tonight. Is a bit chilly.
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03-06-2020, 10:54 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: KS
Posts: 2,369
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I assume you have pushed the reset on the gfci already and it failed? It could be a bad gfci or something more serious. Before routing around a gfci temporarily I would check a few things.
Check the ground on the campground pedestal or try another pedistal. If that is good I suspect a different ground problem. First thing I would do is check for hot skin.
https://youtu.be/GuWX9wJwvtU
Best tool is a non contact volt meter. Any voltage over 30v detected I would disconnect the RV and not plug it back in until you get to the factory. If no voltage found on metal parts of the RV you can continue below.
Second I would check wiring. Unplug the RV and turn off inverter. Then you can wiggle all the AC wiring in the panel circut breaker panel and check the screws for tightness. Sounds like something is loose.
If you find something loose tighten it and then reset all breakers and plug everything back in. Check for hot skin or reset the gfci and see if it trips again still.
It may be something with the inverter as well but that part I am not sure about. It is possible that the transfer switch forbthe inverter is bad.
The hot skin is a concern if someone put a screw through a wire during assembly. It happens more often than you may think.
There are several electricians here that will know better than me, but it's a start.
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03-06-2020, 11:10 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Thank you!
Troubleshooting continues.
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03-07-2020, 07:39 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Posts: 1,520
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Hope this morning finds you well.
I assume that you do not have a good V O M ? (volt/ohm) meter.
It sounds like your 12V system is working correctly?
On my DX3, the converter will operate the Refrigerator, microwave, TV'S and
some 120V outlets. Is this what you have now? If so at your next stop.
Under the bed in your 120V panel, reset all breaker including the 50A main.
make sure that the GFI breakers reset (there are two of those on mine)
leave off all the breakers and start the generator or plug into park power.
Turn on 50A breaker, if that is ok, then turn on 1 breaker at a time and
check to make sure that what ever that breaker feeds actually works.
without being there and with you not having a meter it is hard to help much.
Things that flicker sometimes indicate a loose neutral or something loose
If you are handy, take the panel cover off (with no power to the panel)
and start checking for loose connections especially neutrals.
If the GFI breaker will not reset, take the load wire off the breaker and
see if it will reset. Its a lot of stuff but if done in order and with a meter
it will tell the tale.
If you want to PM me with your cell # I may be able to help you, since I
can be in mine and tell you what you should have.
When you get to the factory, Greg and crew will fix you up, they are
a great group and really know how to fix anything that goes wrong
It is very frustrating to be broke down on the road, been there and done
that.
__________________
Joe & Debbie
2017 Dynamax DX3 37BH
Toad: 2020 Ford F-150
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03-07-2020, 09:17 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdandShelley
" Followed by one of the inverter pole breakers tripped, and then found the 50amp breaker tripped. "
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you'll have to clarify what you mean by 'pole breaker'...for your inverter.
The inverter will have it's own 'breaker' on it's housing, which is generally a simply round 'push button' type. The Main panel will have a breaker for the 'input' from Shore Power or Generator, for the Inverter's 'pass thru' of 120v power, and another breaker for the Inverter's output to it's dedicated circuit breakers, which includes the outlets that serve the House, the microwave, the fridge, etc.
Our Inverter's breaker popped several times over the past month, due to us running a little too 'much' high-draw electric heaters, while at the same time deciding to also run the hair dryer, etc. EVEN while on Shore Power. While the amount of 50amp 240v shore power is certainly capable of providing all that power, and more, the Inverter, which serves all the outlets, is only capable of 20-30amps, depending on the size of it's 'breaker' on the Inverter itself. The 'pass thru' of power to it's circuits is limited by this breaker, to protect the wiring within itself, and the wiring from the inverter to the circuits.
It can be confusing when you are plugged into full Shore Power, and yet have a loss of 'power', since there are many things in play:
A loss of one 'side' of the incoming 50amp 240v RV Shore Power can be one of those, and hard to determine since 'some' other circuits may be working, and yet some 'outlets' may not. A loose wire at the Shore Power breaker is a suspect, and more common than some believe.
The Shore CORD itself can have a loose wire on either the Male or Female end. An easy check and fix, unless your shore cord is a permanently 'molded' end type.
Your ATS( Auto Transfer Switch) can also have a similar 'loose' wire issue. Again, an easy fix. Check ALL connections and tightness of each. It's common for new coaches to find 'loose' connections from the factory. Do this when there is NO Shore POwer or Generator Power, of course.
Your MAIN PANEL has it's own 50amp 240v double-pole Main breaker, and can have the same 'loose' wire syndrome. Another easy fix, as above. Also, check all breakers for tight connections for the black outgoing wire.
The Inverter's own 'push' breaker is an easy fix if it trips. Push it back in to restore Inverter 'pass thru', or regular output of power.
Since you don't have a Converter, I assume, your Batteries simply provide all 12v power to lights, fans, and appliance needs, such as ignitors for propane to the stove, oven, and/or furnace, as well as C02 and Smoke detectors, and Radio and Rear video monitor, etc. The Inverter's built = in Battery Charger will recharge the House batteries, at least when you are plugged into shore power, have the generator running, OR are traveling, where the ALTERNATOR will do this.
Enjoy !
__________________
The Turners...
'07 Rockwood Signature Ultralight...
two Campers and two Electric cars : )
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03-07-2020, 10:05 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale Ma
Posts: 4,823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdandShelley
Sorry guys
Was on the phone with the dealers service department electrician troubleshooting.
What we know.
- All works fine on battery / inverter power.
- When on generator or shore power several GFI outlets will not work as well as the refrigerator will not work. In addition the passenger side gfi breaker is tripped (on panel under /side of bed).
- From a power filtering perspective, the park pedestal runs into a watchdog Surge protector then to a houghs Autoformer. We have taken both those out of the loop and the RV issues remain when in park power.
We are in route to Elkhart for a factory service appointment in Monday.
At this point (unless it’s an easy fix here) our plan is to boondock tonight in Little Rock then drive to Terre Houte tomorrow and boondock again. Will have it at the factory Sunday night for our Monday appointment.
We certainly do appreciate any thoughts that might help restore power tonight. Is a bit chilly.
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I'm gonna sit back and watch this one. Not enough or correct information. Don't know if the tripped GFI has been reset. How many and which ones are "Several GFI Outlets". Don't know the condition of the Park Power. How much voltage on each leg? If on Autoformer it belongs in front of the EMS. If it is behind the autoformer then the EMS will shut down the power at 108 and the autoformer will have nothing to do. Is the fridge RV combo or Residential.
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03-07-2020, 10:13 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
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You DO know that usually all but one of your "GFCI" outlets are actually daisy-chained from a single "real" GFCI outlet, usually in the bathroom or the kitchen, right?
The daisy-chained outlets usually have a GFCI sticker on them, but they look like ordinary outlets, they don't have the test and reset buttons.
If something in any of the daisy-chained outlets causes the GFCI in the bathroom/kitchen to trip, that outlet and ALL the daisy-chained outlets will lose power.
You have to reset the "real" GFCI outlet to restore power to all of them.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)
2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
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03-07-2020, 11:35 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Thanks for all the help and advice everyone.
The dealer’s electrician walked me through troubleshooting last night. We are back on the road to the factory in Elkhart. Status:
- we swapped the load wire on the two GFI breakers and the problem stayed with the breaker that is tripped. Indicates a bad breaker.
- we do not have an outlet with the typical test and reset buttons. Appears that the breaker does this function (has a test button)
- same electrical issues present when we are in generator
- everything works fine when on batteries
Our system is wired in this order.. 1 shore power, 2 watchdog, 3 Autoformer, 4 switch, 5 inverter... (agree with the earlier comment that having the watchdog in front of the Autoformer defeats the purpose if voltage drops below the watchdog threshold). However, if we ever experience a surge/spike, I would rather lose the watchdog vs $800 autoformer. So it can boost until the voltage falls below the watchdog threshold.
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03-07-2020, 12:01 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Son is driving so I did some testing.
- all is operating in battery power
- started generator and the gFI breaker that trips on shore power no longer trips
- however, refrigerator does not work on generator power.
- since we are loaded with food...I reverted to battery power.
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03-07-2020, 08:20 PM
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#14
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Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Sudbury
Posts: 40
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Sounds familiar, on our Mini Lite at the factory they ran wiring between frame and wall panels. Insulation slowly abraded away and shorted out.
The first instance affected the wiring for outlets, luckily we were still under warranty and the dealer fixed it.
The second happened early on the trip we are on now and affected the refrigerator propane heater and lights, had to take it to a repair place.
This seems like a problem that should never have happened if the manufacturer had set procedures for all the build elements,
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03-07-2020, 08:36 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Thank you for your insight. Sure hope it isn’t this.
The situation is bringing something to memory. About a month ago, the interior power was cycling off/on multiple times while plugged in at storage. We called the storage place thinking someone was working with the RV. It was not being worked on and we found the inverter cycling. I’m wondering if the issue we have now is related in any way.
Fortunately we are camped at the Dynamax factory awaiting a Monday appointment. This issue arose during the trip frim Dallas to Elkhart.
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03-07-2020, 09:10 PM
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#16
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Commercial Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Bristol, IN
Posts: 18,905
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And was the issue in storage before or after you modified the factory wiring? And do you have the xantrex or magnum inverter?
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03-07-2020, 10:01 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Not following the “modified factory wiring” comment. All that has been installed is a watchdog and Autoformer in the electric bay.
The issues in storage happened before the watchdog and Autoformer install.
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03-07-2020, 10:02 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bclemens
And was the issue in storage before or after you modified the factory wiring? And do you have the xantrex or magnum inverter?
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Xantrex
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03-07-2020, 10:04 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Port Charlotte Fl/Hinsdale Ma
Posts: 4,823
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdandShelley
Thanks for all the help and advice everyone.
The dealer’s electrician walked me through troubleshooting last night. We are back on the road to the factory in Elkhart. Status:
- we swapped the load wire on the two GFI breakers and the problem stayed with the breaker that is tripped. Indicates a bad breaker.
- we do not have an outlet with the typical test and reset buttons. Appears that the breaker does this function (has a test button)
- same electrical issues present when we are in generator
- everything works fine when on batteries
Our system is wired in this order.. 1 shore power, 2 watchdog, 3 Autoformer, 4 switch, 5 inverter... (agree with the earlier comment that having the watchdog in front of the Autoformer defeats the purpose if voltage drops below the watchdog threshold). However, if we ever experience a surge/spike, I would rather lose the watchdog vs $800 autoformer. So it can boost until the voltage falls below the watchdog threshold.
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Autoformer has spike protection that is repairable. That's where the term surge comes in.
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03-07-2020, 10:30 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Frisco, TX & Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 530
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You bet! We went with the watchdog and Autoformer to protect the transfer switch and inverter from power issues. The challenge seems to be pointing to an issue with the inverter. Will report back once the factory can take a look and correct the issue.
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