First yellow check engine on M2. DEF pump running after shutoff

[FORCE of Nature]

Hey all, just gathering some thoughts and stacking logic together. With full blown rookie freightliner status noted, when I started the Detroit yesterday I had smelled a new odor but upon checks noticed nothing out of place with fluids, belts, hoses all the visuals. Once we got moving the odor went away and all was normal. On the highway, 30 mins into a 2hr trip, the freightliner tossed a yellow check engine light. We stopped to get diesel and again all fluids are fine and everything looks good under the hood. Upon restart the light stayed on but all operation of truck seemed fine, no smell noted this time either. All guages reported perfectly the whole time on temps, oil pressure etc.

However, when we finally got to the destination the truck didnt feel underpowered or off, it just sounded a bit more grunty for lack of the better term. A little more diesel grumble. Once I parked it and powered it down I noticed a pump sound from under the rig and I am all but certain it was the DEF pump running. It sits basically tucked down behind the DEF tank inside a little shroud. DEF guage reports 3 of 4 bars full, and we are only 1,700 miles into life. The truck seemed to run just fine otherwise, but I know just enough to know the DEF pumps can be a problem and wanted to get thoughts. Also not sure if has anything to do with Regen.

Side note, but DEF related, I also have not put anti gel in the diesel yet, and thinking I should soon for freezing temps. Does DEF require any kind of winter treatment similarly?

Thank you. Stationary for 1-2 more days before return trip

[rskeans]

Having just gone through a DEF problem, I'm very nervous about such problems. But I have the Cummins and is probably very different than yours.

I would quickly get it to a truck shop to have the check engine read. Freightliner preferred. After my first light I got another one. Two lights on the dash. I would be very hesitant about taking it on the open highway now. You need more information.

[KRedburn]

Most, not all, areas that experience freezing temps have the diesel treated at the pump between November and March.
Even tho I use this in the winter on my Cummins powered DX3 2018 year.

https://powerservice.com/psp_product...2973aa7049aa2d

As for the DEF to my knowledge you do not have to do a winter treatment. The tank has a built in heater which unfortunately is an area where DEF issues occur.

The pump running after shutdown is normal at times. May have been somewhere in a REGEN cycle. You could do a "parked" REGEN. Don't know the proceedure on a DD8.

In cold weather I would suggest that you let the MH warm till water temp is >100 degrees before moving or putting a heavy load on it. Also, upon arrival at destination or fueling let it idle a couple of minutes before shutting down. Much the reason many truckers leave it running while fueling. This lets the engine even out the heat.

One other thought, I never let my DEF tank go below half. So far have not had any issues. Knock on wood.

Just some thoughts.

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by KRedburn

Most, not all, areas that experience freezing temps have the diesel treated at the pump between November and March.
Even tho I use this in the winter on my Cummins powered DX3 2018 year.

https://powerservice.com/psp_product...2973aa7049aa2d

As for the DEF to my knowledge you do not have to do a winter treatment. The tank has a built in heater which unfortunately is an area where DEF issues occur.

The pump running after shutdown is normal at times. May have been somewhere in a REGEN cycle. You could do a "parked" REGEN. Don't know the proceedure on a DD8.

In cold weather I would suggest that you let the MH warm till water temp is >100 degrees before moving or putting a heavy load on it. Also, upon arrival at destination or fueling let it idle a couple of minutes before shutting down. Much the reason many truckers leave it running while fueling. This lets the engine even out the heat.

One other thought, I never let my DEF tank go below half. So far have not had any issues. Knock on wood.

Just some thoughts.

Very much appreciated feedback. Logical too which I love. Regen was top on my mind before I heard the DEF pump running, so good to know that can be normal. I'd like to think that I typically run it for a solid minute before shutting off, but I will emphasize that to be more standard procedure for several minutes from here on out. Allowing it to warm up is something I have always done habitually, but I could definitely see the distraction of arriving home with kids, dog and all that excitement rushing a proper cool down procedure.

I thought about looking into a parked regen and will research that more as hopefully a reply or two more come to this thread.

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by rskeans

Having just gone through a DEF problem, I'm very nervous about such problems. But I have the Cummins and is probably very different than yours.

I would quickly get it to a truck shop to have the check engine read. Freightliner preferred. After my first light I got another one. Two lights on the dash. I would be very hesitant about taking it on the open highway now. You need more information.

Definitely a thought as well. Figured going in with some direction would/could be helpful to a tech.

I knew with the DD8 being newest platform that a lot of Cummins owners would be reading this. Ideally some good crossover info nonetheless. I'm a lifelong Cummins fan boy, so while it hurt me in my heart, I know DD makes solid stuff too. Thanks for feedback. If you don't mind can you elaborate a little on your DEF issue even if just to help eliminate a variable here or there. Thanks!

[FORCE of Nature]

Update: Nothing pertinent to anyone curious, but found out Freightliner of Harrisburg is only 15 minutes away, so scheduled an appt for them to check it out on Wednesday morning.

In true kill two birds fassion, now I gotta get my butt in gear and research some parameter changes I can also have the tech do with me. I remember seeing some info on this as well

I'll be sure to post the resolution for curious minds, but am happy to receive any other feedback related to Original Issue, or any freightliner parameter thoughts anyone has who may have also dabbled with that.

Thanks to all, and hope the holidays are going great!

[KRedburn]

Originally Posted by FORCE of Nature

Update: Nothing pertinent to anyone curious, but found out Freightliner of Harrisburg is only 15 minutes away, so scheduled an appt for them to check it out on Wednesday morning.

In true kill two birds fassion, now I gotta get my butt in gear and research some parameter changes I can also have the tech do with me. I remember seeing some info on this as well

I'll be sure to post the resolution for curious minds, but am happy to receive any other feedback related to Original Issue, or any freightliner parameter thoughts anyone has who may have also dabbled with that.

Thanks to all, and hope the holidays are going great!

Since the M2 is a commercial chassis there may be other tunings available for the DD8.
On mine from Dynamax Cummins powered was 350hp 1000lb/ft torque. Freightliner loaded the parameters for a concrete/fire service truck which changed the torque curve that upped it to 350hp 1150lb/ft torgue. This did make it climb hills better especially with a tow. I also had him alter the jake braking while in cruise control to have a 3mph window total as opposed to the setting that was in there before which I think was 10mph window total. Don't really remember the original setting.
As for driving on long hills, I do NOT depend on the cruise or automatic shifting. Manually shift paying attention to rpm and temps (both water and transimission). temps climb rapidly back out of it or shift to lower gear. Do not run RPM higher than 2150 shift before you hit 1550. this keeps the engine in the torque curve.
I do manually shift as needed to keep the engine within the torque/hp curve which will depend on the engine tuning. DD8 most likely is different than Cummins.
I actually could care less if I am not doing 60mph up a hill. Put your flashers on if below 15mph under speed limit and enjoy the view.

Learn you truck (all are a little bit different), enjoy the trips and drive safely.

Get out and glamp! Happy New Year!

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by KRedburn

Since the M2 is a commercial chassis there may be other tunings available for the DD8.

On mine from Dynamax Cummins powered was 350hp 1000lb/ft torque. Freightliner loaded the parameters for a concrete/fire service truck which changed the torque curve that upped it to 350hp 1150lb/ft torgue. This did make it climb hills better especially with a tow. I also had him alter the jake braking while in cruise control to have a 3mph window total as opposed to the setting that was in there before which I think was 10mph window total. Don't really remember the original setting.

As for driving on long hills, I do NOT depend on the cruise or automatic shifting. Manually shift paying attention to rpm and temps (both water and transimission). temps climb rapidly back out of it or shift to lower gear. Do not run RPM higher than 2150 shift before you hit 1550. this keeps the engine in the torque curve.

I do manually shift as needed to keep the engine within the torque/hp curve which will depend on the engine tuning. DD8 most likely is different than Cummins.

I actually could care less if I am not doing 60mph up a hill. Put your flashers on if below 15mph under speed limit and enjoy the view.



Learn you truck (all are a little bit different), enjoy the trips and drive safely.



Get out and glamp! Happy New Year!

Wow, great info KRedburn! I appreciate you taking the time to post it. Certain names seem to come up with the best repeat information and yours is one of them in my observations! In looking into re-calibration and parameters a little yesterday I saw your comments multiple times and took note of who said it! Very appreciative.

Happy New Year!!!

[rskeans]

Originally Posted by FORCE of Nature

If you don't mind can you elaborate a little on your DEF issue even if just to help eliminate a variable here or there. Thanks!

I was heading to the Granby, CO rally by way of White Sands, NM. Had one check engine light then got a 2nd with a message of a pending engine shutdown. (not good). Pulled over into a Walmart parking in Alamorgordo, NM lot then got a tow to a truck shop. Shop was able to clear the code but warned it could trigger again. Canceled trip to Granby and headed West. In Tucson more warnings. Freightliner dealer was closing up for a holiday weekend. One of their customers pointed the way to a Peterbuilt dealer. Drove there and they couldn't clear code. Drove out of their lot and a RED engine came on then a 5mph derate. Peterbuilt allowed us to park the rig in their lot. We found a motel room that accepted pets then drove to Lake Havasu, AZ where we have a 2nd home. From there we made recovery plans.

Want to point out that ALL businesses that deal with trucks were very helpful and accommodating!

Contacted Tucson Freightliner after the Holiday and towed our rig there. Their evaluation determined the DEF header was faulty. Part was on backorder with no ETA. A month later the part arrived and now all is well.

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by rskeans

I was heading to the Granby, CO rally by way of White Sands, NM. Had one check engine light then got a 2nd with a message of a pending engine shutdown. (not good). Pulled over into a Walmart parking in Alamorgordo, NM lot then got a tow to a truck shop. Shop was able to clear the code but warned it could trigger again. Canceled trip to Granby and headed West. In Tucson more warnings. Freightliner dealer was closing up for a holiday weekend. One of their customers pointed the way to a Peterbuilt dealer. Drove there and they couldn't clear code. Drove out of their lot and a RED engine came on then a 5mph derate. Peterbuilt allowed us to park the rig in their lot. We found a motel room that accepted pets then drove to Lake Havasu, AZ where we have a 2nd home. From there we made recovery plans.

Want to point out that ALL businesses that deal with trucks were very helpful and accommodating!

Contacted Tucson Freightliner after the Holiday and towed our rig there. Their evaluation determined the DEF header was faulty. Part was on backorder with no ETA. A month later the part arrived and now all is well.

Wow quite the steep learning curve on that experience! Holy cow. Appreciate you sharing. DEF is always a concern high enough that I will take any education I can get. Especially first hand experience. Noted for future, and definitely noted about all truck placed being helpful.

Happy New Years!

[rskeans]

Just a note, My habit was to add DEF only when necessary. On this trip I filled up the DEF at a truck stop in Lordsberg, NM. After that I got my first check engine light. It would appear that it is better to always top off the DEF. Keep the tank full.

[3 amigos]

I would wait until I had cycled on /off 5-6 times. my bet is it goes off.It has always gone off on mine.

[DR Quest]

It is normal for the DEF pump to run when you shut off the engine, it is sucking the fluid back to the tank. Check to see if it is a check engine light, a DEF, or high exhaust temp light, all three are yellow. Check your left sun visor, all the lights should be on a sticker and what they mean. It will also tell you how to do a regen.

[sfsgm]

Originally Posted by FORCE of Nature

Hey all, just gathering some thoughts and stacking logic together. With full blown rookie freightliner status noted, when I started the Detroit yesterday I had smelled a new odor but upon checks noticed nothing out of place with fluids, belts, hoses all the visuals. Once we got moving the odor went away and all was normal. On the highway, 30 mins into a 2hr trip, the freightliner tossed a yellow check engine light. We stopped to get diesel and again all fluids are fine and everything looks good under the hood. Upon restart the light stayed on but all operation of truck seemed fine, no smell noted this time either. All guages reported perfectly the whole time on temps, oil pressure etc.

However, when we finally got to the destination the truck didnt feel underpowered or off, it just sounded a bit more grunty for lack of the better term. A little more diesel grumble. Once I parked it and powered it down I noticed a pump sound from under the rig and I am all but certain it was the DEF pump running. It sits basically tucked down behind the DEF tank inside a little shroud. DEF guage reports 3 of 4 bars full, and we are only 1,700 miles into life. The truck seemed to run just fine otherwise, but I know just enough to know the DEF pumps can be a problem and wanted to get thoughts. Also not sure if has anything to do with Regen.

Side note, but DEF related, I also have not put anti gel in the diesel yet, and thinking I should soon for freezing temps. Does DEF require any kind of winter treatment similarly?

Thank you. Stationary for 1-2 more days before return trip

Does it have a reductant heater for the DEF?

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by sfsgm

Does it have a reductant heater for the DEF?

Found this in the manual which addresses the cold weather aspect of DEF

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by DR Quest

It is normal for the DEF pump to run when you shut off the engine, it is sucking the fluid back to the tank. Check to see if it is a check engine light, a DEF, or high exhaust temp light, all three are yellow. Check your left sun visor, all the lights should be on a sticker and what they mean. It will also tell you how to do a regen.

Thanks for also confirming the DEF pump running after shutdown is normal.

Attached is the only sticker on the visor, but I confirmed via the manual my light is a Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL), not Check Engine

[GFD47]

Originally Posted by FORCE of Nature

Side note, but DEF related, I also have not put anti gel in the diesel yet, and thinking I should soon for freezing temps. Does DEF require any kind of winter treatment similarly?

My last diesel was a 1984 F250 with an International motor, so my 2020 F350 is the first DEF user I've owned. In my get-to-know-DEF research I read that DEF needs to remain pure to work properly, and the tank heater takes care of "cold" issues. Statement I recall was, "DO NOT USE ANY ADDITIVES IN YOUR DEF"

[Bill Davis]

Originally Posted by FORCE of Nature

Thanks for also confirming the DEF pump running after shutdown is normal.

Attached is the only sticker on the visor, but I confirmed via the manual my light is a Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL), not Check EngineAttachment 267174Attachment 267175Attachment 267173

MIL is just another name for check engine light.some manufacturers call it a malfunction indicator light, service engine soon light or check engine light.

[FORCE of Nature]

Originally Posted by Bill Davis

MIL is just another name for check engine light.some manufacturers call it a malfunction indicator light, service engine soon light or check engine light.

Bill, you are among my repeat awesome information names I have noticed so I am by no means saying you are wrong. Definitely similar in a lot of ways.

In this case the manual does seem to indicated a specificity to the light differentiating it from Check Engine. If you look 3 spaces above my fat finger you will see Check Engine is a little broader relating to fluids, pressures, DPF

MIL Malfunction Indicator seems to indicate emissions related, which in hindsight explains my smell upon start of the trip. My gut is telling me a forced regen is in my future. 1700 miles, 800 of which were from Factory to Hershey Show, to dealer etc, not in my possession.

... that or a squirrel picked the wrong place to take a nap! Either way I can go into this with some good info for the tech tomorrow AM
Attachment 267178Attachment 267180

[Invisibleman]

I have a 21 Force with DD8. Here is a link to a post I started mostly about the engine brake settings. I ended up going to a Detroit/Allison shop and had the cooling fan and shift settings changed. Made a world of difference. I suggest looking into having the simple ECM changes made while at Freightliner.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...d8-234029.html

On a separate note, you should be getting almost instantaneous emails from Freightliner (or maybe Detroit) of any engine warnings. Its a Detroit feature. You may have to register your email. Those emails are also supposed to go immediately to Detroit / Freightliner service center who should contact you about what to do. Fortunately I have never had any engine lights, and I am now at about 14,000 miles.